Cloud Atlat - WTF

[mr friendly guy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(film)

So my friend invited me to see this film and it certainly has an international feel to it. I certainly recognise several of the actors. Now I am going to say straight off the bat, if you are someone who likes "themes" more so than plot or characterisation like my friend, you will love this film. If you are one of those who like those films we had to analyse in high school English class, then you will love this film. For everyone else, it runs the risk of being a giant mind fuck as typical fare directed by the Wachowski siblings. The siblings who brought you the Matrix when they were still the Wachowski brothers.

Basically the film (based on the novel of the same name) interweaves six different stories, set in six different times. Two of them are stock standard sci fi themes including a post apocalyptic world. What links the story together is that the characters are in one story, are reincarnated from characters set in an earlier time frame. In the novel its achieved by the use of birth marks, which is also mentioned in the movie. However its more obvious as they simply get the same actors to play characters, and use some make up or digital tricks when they play characters of different races. Now the make up still easily allows you to tell the actor for the most part even though they are playing a character of a different race, but I accept that as a convention. If anyone is interested, Hugo Weaving with that make up does not look Korean. Its about as likely as I can pass for a Newcomer if I just shave my hair off. I should point out that some people think when Noah Ringer shaved his hair off he suddenly looks Asian (in the Last Airbender), so I guess you standards vary.

So what are these six stories, and what are the themes you say?

Well the first story is set during the abolitionist era, with the protagonist being a lawyer (played by Jim Sturgess) who ends up fighting for the abolitionists. In the end his wife (played by Korean actress Bae Doona but with effects to make her look caucasian) sides with him against her father played by Hugo Weaving (who is stuck playing the perpetual bad guy in this film, or perhaps the guy representing the status quo, no matter how unjust).

The second story show cases Q (from James Bond, not Star Trek), er I mean a man named Robert Frobisher played by Ben Whislaw trying to compose a piece of music, which would ultimately be called Cloud Atlas from which this movie is named.

I will skip to the fifth story as that showcases a sci fi world where some worker humans are genetically created to serve, and then killed for their protein to use in the genomics industry. Here Korean actress Bae Doona is one of these genetically engineered humans who is helped by Hae-Joo Chang (again played by Jim Sturgess, who played her husband in the past life). Basically her character Sonmi~451 finds out the truth and decides to broadcast the message not just to the world, but to off world colonies as well. In this way, the theme of freedom is repeated, with both characters doing what is right to help the genetic slaves. I also recognise Sonmi 451's friend is played by Chinese actress Zhou Xun, who gets her carotids blown out by a slaver collar for daring to rebel. She also reappears in the last story as Tom Hank's wife (made to look caucasian).

Basically there are several themes I can identify. One is doing what is right despite the status quo, as evidenced by the same characters repeating their actions - eg in the first story they choose to help the abolitionist movement, and in the fifth story they do the same thing. Another one is perhaps redemption. This is noticed by Tom Hank's character who was clearly one of the bad guys in the first story, and a good guy in later stories, particularly the last story. Especially telling is the scene in the first story when he had poisoned the Sturgess character and is trying to finish him and trying to steal the key on a chain on his neck. The last story, Hanks had to make the decision to slit the bad guy's throat, and he hesitates, but makes the decision to do so in the end.

Ok, so who else has seen this, and what do you guys think?

[Guardsman Bass]

I enjoyed it, although I thought the first 45 minutes were the most difficult part of that film (after that, it starts to pull itself together). If I hadn't read the book before-hand, I wouldn't have completely understood.

I think the main theme is that "despite opposition, humanity can survive and triumph over the evils of the present", with the "evils" being represented by Hugo Weaving and his repeated words "There's an order to this world". Some don't - Frobisher is broken by the betrayal of Ayers, and he commits suicide. Somni is ultimately a martyr, although she gets her message across. But the others succeed and find happiness despite adversity.

You made a good catch on the "redemption" theme. Hanks' character is basically a bad person, until his reincarnation runs into Luisa Rey - after that, he beings to get better. He even mentions it at one point, that now his life is going another way.

The movie put a much more optimistic spin on the theme and plots than the book it was based on. The book portrayed how difficult rises over the predatory status quo could be wiped out so easily, and left it ambiguous as to whether or not we could. I still prefer the book over the movie, but I really enjoyed both.

[FaxModem1]

I loved this film. At first I had a few problems because I hadn't read the book, but it was easy to understand the reincarnation angle since they used the same actors over and over. Key note, anyone who complains about the 'racebending' in this film is missing the point that race is not something that matters, as everyone is people in this film.

I thought the contrast of primitive black tribe visited by advanced whites in the Abolitionist era, then reversed with white tribe visited by advanced blacks in the post-apocalyptic future was a nice turnaround.

The film was definitely six different movies playing at the same time, but it worked, as each connected with each other. But, at the same time, each could be it's own story on these people and what they're doing.

[Guardsman Bass]

The changes in the Sonmi part done to Hugo Weaving and Jim Sturgess looked pretty weird, until someone else pointed out that I'd missed how they separated the "consumers/purebloods" from the "fabricants". The Fabricants look Korean, and speak a Korean-ish language on their own - the Consumers deliberately look strange and manipulated with (something they've likely done to themselves), with a language that's a mix of things but mostly English.

I thought the contrast of primitive black tribe visited by advanced whites in the Abolitionist era, then reversed with white tribe visited by advanced blacks in the post-apocalyptic future was a nice turnaround.

It's a cool set of "book-ends" to the story.

[JLTucker]

Now I am going to say straight off the bat, if you are someone who likes "themes" more so than plot or characterisation like my friend, you will love this film.

Why did you put the word "themes" in quotation marks?

[Spekio]

Hanks from the first stoey isn't Hanks from the last story - that would be the slave. Because of the birth mark, I think.

I liked the movie, albeit the Sonmi's story is way better in the book. There is no romance, and her martyrdom comes across as less selfish. Shes's not doing it because a man uplifted her as in the movie.

[mr friendly guy]

Now I am going to say straight off the bat, if you are someone who likes "themes" more so than plot or characterisation like my friend, you will love this film.

Why did you put the word "themes" in quotation marks?

To be honest it was most probably not because of any grammatical need, but most probably because I tend not to be one of these people who like a story usually because of its themes, but more so for characterisation and plot. I tend to find people may see different themes from the same story/movie, since high school English, so the themes I identify might not be the same as what someone else sees.

[mr friendly guy]

I loved this film. At first I had a few problems because I hadn't read the book, but it was easy to understand the reincarnation angle since they used the same actors over and over. Key note, anyone who complains about the 'racebending' in this film is missing the point that race is not something that matters, as everyone is people in this film.
.

The racebending was obviously done to show that such and such characters were the reincarnation of previous characters. It certainly made it more obvious than birth marks, so I can't complain about it, unlike say compared to The Last Airbender.

[Guardsman Bass]

Hanks from the first stoey isn't Hanks from the last story - that would be the slave. Because of the birth mark, I think.

I liked the movie, albeit the Sonmi's story is way better in the book. There is no romance, and her martyrdom comes across as less selfish. Shes's not doing it because a man uplifted her as in the movie.

Same here. Sonmi's section in the book was my favorite part of that novel, and my least favorite part of the movie. It's unfortunately a section that only partially translates to film, because so much of it is build-up and time between occasional action sequences.

That said, they did manage to express some of the events that the book included in a more succinct way. While the scene where Yoona-939 rebels is incredibly vivid in the book, I really loved the scene in the movie, where they showed her rebelling and transgressing her enslavement in a single sentence and callback to Timonthy Cavendish. Good stuff.

[Connor MacLeod]

To be honest it was most probably not because of any grammatical need, but most probably because I tend not to be one of these people who like a story usually because of its themes, but more so for characterisation and plot. I tend to find people may see different themes from the same story/movie, since high school English, so the themes I identify might not be the same as what someone else sees.

I think its rather he's asking if you put them in quotes to be deliberately antagonistic, as your entire comment could be construed as utterly dismissive of theme in general. It was not terribly precise, and even now I can't tell what you're exactly trying to drive at with your explanation.

[JLTucker]

To be honest it was most probably not because of any grammatical need, but most probably because I tend not to be one of these people who like a story usually because of its themes, but more so for characterisation and plot. I tend to find people may see different themes from the same story/movie, since high school English, so the themes I identify might not be the same as what someone else sees.

I think its rather he's asking if you put them in quotes to be deliberately antagonistic, as your entire comment could be construed as utterly dismissive of theme in general. It was not terribly precise, and even now I can't tell what you're exactly trying to drive at with your explanation.

You have it right. That's exactly what I thought when I read it.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yeah, thats how I read it too.

[mr friendly guy]

To be honest it was most probably not because of any grammatical need, but most probably because I tend not to be one of these people who like a story usually because of its themes, but more so for characterisation and plot. I tend to find people may see different themes from the same story/movie, since high school English, so the themes I identify might not be the same as what someone else sees.

I think its rather he's asking if you put them in quotes to be deliberately antagonistic, as your entire comment could be construed as utterly dismissive of theme in general. It was not terribly precise, and even now I can't tell what you're exactly trying to drive at with your explanation.

Well I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, but I will admit I look more for plot and characterisation in my stories. Its not something I particularly look for, but there are clearly people who do look for those and enjoy it.

I am not against themes per se, but I find (and this is just a personal opinion) if the story's plot or characterisation isn't good, I tend not to enjoy it even if the theme comes off strong.

Edit - in regards to Cloud Atlas, as mentioned the first say 45 minutes the plot comes off confusing, and not particularly engrossing. Only later does it come together. However by that stage I didn't feel rewarded in the same sense that a story which drops hints here and there comes together beautifully, I just felt "what took you so long".

[Connor MacLeod]

Well I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, but I will admit I look more for plot and characterisation in my stories. Its not something I particularly look for, but there are clearly people who do look for those and enjoy it.

I am not against themes per se, but I find (and this is just a personal opinion) if the story's plot or characterisation isn't good, I tend not to enjoy it even if the theme comes off strong.

Okay, but you really need to be careful about how you phrase shit online, especially on this forum as careless words - unintentional or not - can cause offense or be seen as baiting, and without any other context or cues to go on, how are they to know you didn't mean it? All we have are text to go on (no verbal cues, no body language, etc.) so its much harder to guess.

That same problem cropped up in the Aliens 3 thread actually, I noticed. A number of people (like Tosdoc) said some frankly bizarre stuff and its no surprise people got annoyed with him, beause he came across as pretty dismissive about theme too (maybe he didn't intend to, but thats how it was interpreted and it was an interpretation I could follow as well.)