DW S34E7: Nightmare in Silver

[Captain Seafort]

Starts in half an hour.

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Is it just me or was there a major Warhammer 40,000 vibe in this episode? I mean with the planet destruction device and the venerated space emperor I was getting a pretty big feel for it.

[jwl]

The planet destruction device is probably a nod to the Z-bomb in the tenth planet.
But it was a brilliant episode. I had two small problems with it (why didn't the doctor tell the kids to stay in the TARDIS, and why are they adding romance to the series AGAIN), but the cybermen were really threatening, and overall I really liked the episode.

[Sharp-kun]

Liked it overall. My only niggles:

- The planet blowing up. Felt too much like the Dalek eps where they get wiped out to almost the last one only to rebuild by the next ep. I'd rather have seen them actually escape in a decent number.

- We see early on that these Cybermen can like ZOOM!, then later they just slowly march at Clara and co? Don't give them a new super power for one scene only to ignore it later.

- The preview for the next ep. Urgh.

Is it just me or was there a major Warhammer 40,000 vibe in this episode? I mean with the planet destruction device and the venerated space emperor I was getting a pretty big feel for it.

Same. Penal Legions and the Imperial Guard as well.

[Bedlam]

That was probably the, fruitiest, version of a cybercontroller I've ever seem.

It did seem a bit cheap that the Cybermen had plot relevant powers which they didn't use when they could have, particularly the superspeed, they could have taken the castle in a few seconds if they'd used it. They could have at least hand waved it be adding a line about not having the energy needed to power it or something.

I liked the sleeker look as well.

[DarkSilver]

The girl annoyed the hell out of me. Then again I tend to find most child actors in shows make me want to see them killed off somehow (I'm looking at you Henry from Once Upon a Time).

I like the new look for Mondasian Cybermen - the quick upgrade paths seemed a bit to quick though. Definitely more Borg like than I am comfortable with.


......I like Mr Clever. A Cyberman AI who got infected with the Doctor's own personality - in a way he never should have been. The scenes between Mr Clever and The Doctor going back and forth were really well done.

[Captain Seafort]

Definitely more Borg like than I am comfortable with.

What's wrong with that? The Borg were never more than Cyberman rip-offs in the first place.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

Definitely more Borg like than I am comfortable with.

What's wrong with that? The Borg were never more than Cyberman rip-offs in the first place.

The Cybermen and the Borg have always had a lot in common. One way I've found of distinguishing them is the relationship of each individual to the whole. When a person is assimilated by the Borg, their 'being' is absorbed into the Collective, to the point where it can separate from the body and live on in the Collective if the body is destroyed. Cybermen, by contrast, have never had a 'network' until recently (at least as far as I know) and there are a couple of examples of Cybermen displaying individuality. One is 'The Tenth Planet', where the Cybermen had names (at least in the script), and the other is 'The Five Doctors', where the Cybermen refer to themselves as 'I' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF_yjfCVpRo). Also, the 'Earthshock' style Cyber-leaders appear to display emotions ("Excellent!").

This new version seems to go in a more 'Borg' direction. The Cybermen are connected via a network to one-another and to the Cyber-planner. The Cyber-planner can exist as a distinct entity or within the network, and it can draw upon the brains of the individual Cybermen to boost its processing power. The ability of the Cybermen to 'upgrade' during a battle also ties them to the Borg, but actually goes above and beyond it. Borg drone adaption consisted of altering shield frequencies to block out enemy fire; these new Cybermen seem to be able to physically alter their bodies.

There is still one thing that sets them apart, though it's a little more subtle than before. Rather than existing as a collective, the new Cybermen seem to be entirely subordinate to the wil of a single entity, the Cyber-planner. Their individual identities might still exist, or they might not. It was interesting to me that the Cyber-planner acquired a personality by virtue of trying to convert the Doctor ('Mr Clever'), as it implies that Cybermen take a bit more from their converts than is immediately apparent.

[Batman]

That'd be the fact that at least as far as I can tell from nuWho the Cybermen up until now needed to put whatever organs (usually including the brain) they decided to harvest into a clearly robotic body to make you a Cyberman while Borg assimilation turned you into a *insert species before assimilation* with extra bits attached/replacing bits they decided you don't need anymore. The Borg may have been inspired by the Cybermen, but at least until this episode their Modus Operandi was completely different (at least as far as I can tell).

[Captain Seafort]

That'd be the fact that at least as far as I can tell from nuWho the Cybermen up until now needed to put whatever organs (usually including the brain) they decided to harvest into a clearly robotic body to make you a Cyberman while Borg assimilation turned you into a *insert species before assimilation* with extra bits attached/replacing bits they decided you don't need anymore. The Borg may have been inspired by the Cybermen, but at least until this episode their Modus Operandi was completely different (at least as far as I can tell).

The "robot shell + squishy inserts" model is new to the last few years - the conversion process seen in Attack was much the same as the Borg. Their homeword was also depicted as multi-story buildings with open walkways surrounding an open chasm, with alcoves a la your standard cube.

[Parallax]

An episode of mostly good with some horrible slivers stuck into it.

I love the new Cyberman design and most of their abilities (such as 360 degree head turning) but the super speed effect looked like rubbish. Very Iron Man-ish elements.
Huge Warhammer 40k feel to a lot of it, which seemed to fit in well.
The Flagship's sensors must suck ass to miss that floating transponder beeping thing at the end.
I'm still trying to figure out the point of having the kids in the episode at all. The girl, especially, was really freaking annoying and, at times, their acting was bad.
Porridge being the Emperor was broadcast too much and was very obvious.
I really liked the scenes set inside the Doctor's head, they seemed to work much better than the ones set in 'reality'.

Liked the plot but the story would have been a whole lot better without the kids in it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'll seond the "would have worked better without kids." There were moments I wanted to reahc into the screen and get rid of her, especially that awful "Hello! I'm bored!" bit. Urgh. This may have something to do with the crowd of similarly aged jerkass kids I bumped into in Cardiff today but still. Stupid bitch.

Aside from that, jolly good episode but could have worked better.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ghetto edit: That kid thinks he can play chess and falls for the two-move checkmate? Goddamn he sucks.

[bobalot]

I found this episode to be far better than the last few. Hopefully, this level of quality continues.

[Iroscato]

It was...OK. I felt it was the weakest of series 7b so far, and I expected more from the man who wrote The Doctor's Wife (my second favourite episode ever). But it did the job, and Warwick Davies was a delight.
One major change I've noticed about Smith's tenure from Tennant's; the Cybermen seem to have gone from being easily the second-most threatening villain the Doctor's ever faced, to feeling like a minor to moderate danger. I certainly think that they're treated differently than before.

[The Guid]

It was...OK. I felt it was the weakest of series 7b so far, and I expected more from the man who wrote The Doctor's Wife (my second favourite episode ever). But it did the job, and Warwick Davies was a delight.
One major change I've noticed about Smith's tenure from Tennant's; the Cybermen seem to have gone from being easily the second-most threatening villain the Doctor's ever faced, to feeling like a minor to moderate danger. I certainly think that they're treated differently than before.

Wait... really?

I find it curious that I find the exact opposite. In Tennant's era we just had the alter Earth Cybermen who were largely Earth based. In Smith's tenure they're suddenly this force that humanity only stopped by blowing up a galaxy! What more can you ask for?

Not that I mind, I just found that interesting. How would you want them portrayed to make them feel dangerous?

To be fair the very fact that humanity is fighting them does cause them to slip down the tables of integalactic badassitude of course; but they were always like that. The whole plot of Earthshock was about them trying too stop a conference of concerned species they thought would defeat them.

Also, do people think the human here were part of the new Roman Empire mentioned in the Ecclestone era?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Perhaps not the New Roman Empire but probably one of the Great and Bountiful Human Empires that existed.

[Havok]

I assumed these were the evolution of the original cybermen and not the alternate Earth version.
Just because one Cyberman can move fast doesn't mean they all can. On top of that hundreds of cybermen moving that fast would just mash into each other.
The cybermite at the end probably doesn't have much range if it was even transmitting at all and not just being shown as still active.
I didn't mind the kid, it was just that her attitude was jarring as there hasn't been much buildup to it.
It was nice having the cybermen seem more menacing. As for looking like Iron Man, they may have actually used left over props from the movies. And as for being like the Borg, how the fuck else are cybernetic bots supposed to communicate? Soup cans and string? Of course its a network.
I think it's the best episode of the season so far.

[Broomstick]

I thought the children were entirely unnecessary to the plot, the whole story could have taken place without them.

It was nice seeing Warwick Davis without the usual latex and makeup cover. The interesting thing is that the character of the emperor could have been played by someone of normal size without significantly changing anything in the plot.

[Korto]

So when did the borg invade the Doctor Who universe?
You will be assimilat... err... upgraded

I quite enjoyed the episode. Wanted to give that girl a right kick up the arse, which considering the age of her character probably means she was well written and well acted.
What I didn't agree with was the unit commander's response to "Hello, I'm bored!" They're out of communication due to parts inexplicably disappearing, weather control and whatever else on the fritz, don't know why, obviously they're not getting resupplied on any decent schedule, probably feel abandoned, the woman in charge's trying to hold it all together, and then some civilian brat (and what the hell are civilians doing here, making her life more difficult, and she can't get rid of them) stands in the doorway and imperiously announces "Hello, I'm bored". Like you should give a fuck. Personally would have told her to get the fuck out and that if she came back again, she'd be physically thrown out.

Problems through the episode as stated by others. If you're going to give the cybermen superspeed for one scene, either give it to them later as well or explain why not. Just a few words about power supply, or that was a prototype model would do. Cybermen had guns, but seemed unsure whether to use them. They could have shot the superbomb, for one. And Clara and the other couple remaining soldiers, although that could have been preserving raw material for new cybermen.

Liked the Mechanical Turk, even included how it was done.

We'll pretend not to notice that if you really (somehow) destroyed a neighbouring galaxy, you would still be seeing that galaxy for a few million years afterwards. Details.

[Eternal_Freedom]

We'll pretend not to notice that if you really (somehow) destroyed a neighbouring galaxy, you would still be seeing that galaxy for a few million years afterwards. Details.

Well in order to destroy the galaxy in less than 50,000 odd years (depending how big a galaxy it is) it must have been some weapon with FTL effects which probably explains why they can see it so quickly. Plus, I don't think they stated where that theme park planet was in relation to Earth, so it may have been in a dwarf satellite galaxy orbiting the destroyed one (which woudl explain why it looked so big in the sky) so it might only be 100,000 light years away.

[Korto]

Well, even if the the galaxy was destroyed instantly (no time lag from one galaxy to another), there's still millions of years of light inbound. Unless that light was also destroyed by the weapon as collateral damage. (shrug).
You do have a point though about the size of the galaxy. Someone could probably tell us how close it would have to be to be that apparent size, assuming it was, for instance, the size of Andromeda.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ok then. Judging from the episode, at a rough guess its about four times the size of the full moon which makes it 2.25 degrees. Assuming it's an Andromeda sized spiral galaxy it has a diamter of 220,000 light years (according to the best available data from Keck) and therefore is ~93,000 light years away from the theme park world, nicely in the range of a dwarf satellite galaxy.

[The Yosemite Bear]

time for a little fan squee did anyone catch who WROTE the episode. (hint it was revealed 6 months ago who was writing the cyberman episode)

[The Yosemite Bear]

It was...OK. I felt it was the weakest of series 7b so far, and I expected more from the man who wrote The Doctor's Wife (my second favourite episode ever). But it did the job, and Warwick Davies was a delight.
One major change I've noticed about Smith's tenure from Tennant's; the Cybermen seem to have gone from being easily the second-most threatening villain the Doctor's ever faced, to feeling like a minor to moderate danger. I certainly think that they're treated differently than before.

Wait... really?

I find it curious that I find the exact opposite. In Tennant's era we just had the alter Earth Cybermen who were largely Earth based. In Smith's tenure they're suddenly this force that humanity only stopped by blowing up a galaxy! What more can you ask for?

Not that I mind, I just found that interesting. How would you want them portrayed to make them feel dangerous?

To be fair the very fact that humanity is fighting them does cause them to slip down the tables of integalactic badassitude of course; but they were always like that. The whole plot of Earthshock was about them trying too stop a conference of concerned species they thought would defeat them.

Also, do people think the human here were part of the new Roman Empire mentioned in the Ecclestone era?

These are stated to be Original Mondasian cybermen who have sufficantly evolved, gold now disrupts their interface, instead of just killing them, cyberleaders and cyber controllers, cybermats have become cybermites. also an explanation of the inverse effectiveness of cybermen in numbers is computing power of the network's resources. It was stated that when there were a lot of them the other units were taking their fair share of the network's resources, while the majority of them were dormant the original few had lots of computing power. (including the two kids)