Lifespan of a Timelord

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
paladin
Jedi Master
Posts: 1393
Joined: 2002-07-22 11:01am
Location: Terra Maria

Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by paladin »

I was wondering if it was established what the lifespan of a timelord is? For that matter, what is the lifespan of a single regeneration for a timelord? I know it was stated within the series that a timelord can regenerate 12 times, so 13 lives.
"Single-minded persistence in the face of futility is what humanity does best." Tim Ferguson
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Captain Seafort »

They're immortal, albeit not (obviously) invulnerable, as the Doctor established in The War Games.
User avatar
Iroscato
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2360
Joined: 2011-02-07 03:04pm
Location: Great Britain (It's great, honestly!)

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Iroscato »

At one point in the old series, it's stated that Timelords can "live forever, barring accidents". How seriously this is taken nowadays is unclear. But at the very least, each incarnation has the better part of a century to live.
And considering the Doctor has been gallivanting around in the TARDIS for over 700 years, his first life must have been at least 200 when he stole her. Add this to the fact that the first Doctor seemingly died of old age, I would say each incarnation has an upper limit of perhaps 300 years. Though again, this might well have been retconned by now.

This is all rendered moot of course, as we all know the Doctor is NOT going to die after his 12th regeneration.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

- SirNitram (RIP)
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10413
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

In his scond life he said he was 250, the Fourth Doctor upped this to 739, the seventh Doctor got up to 900...seems to be (for the Doctor at least) that each regeneration lasts him around 200 years. Of course, he has a somewhat more dangerous life than most Time Lords. The "Live forever, barring accidents" I always interpreted as each regeneration doesn't "age" but can still be mortally wounded and regenerate.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28838
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Broomstick »

First of all, Doctor Who does not have iron-clad canon. There have been plenty of times things have been ret-conned.

Second, the "12 regenerations" was strongly implied to be an artificial limit. In "Underworld" the Doctor and Leela encounter a shipped crewed by Minyans who utilized regenerative technology who had all regenerated dozens, possibly hundreds of times with no upper limit. The Doctor also mentioned problems with such large numbers of generations in that very episode. "Mawdryn Undead" features people punished by the Time Lords by endless regeneration. The Master spent part of the Old Who series pursuing additional regenerations after he ran out his allotment. And finally, in New Who the Master states the Time Lords gave him a new cycle of regenerations after they resurrected him for the Time War.

Third, in "Let's Kill Hitler" River Song is said to have given the Doctor all her remaining regenerations, so apparently even if at one time he has a 12 regeneration limit that seems to have been lifted thanks to her.

None of this, of course, speaks to the lifespan of a Time Lord without regenerations, or the lifespan of a regeneration.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23431
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by LadyTevar »

As said, The Doctor, and to some extent The Master have lived very 'exciting' lives out galavanting across the TimeStream. They have been in mortal danger on multiple occasions, but it seems that the majority of Time Lords never left home. We see repeatedly that the Elders of Galifrey are all aged, and there's been multiple attempts to explain why the Doctor is so young looking when the other Time Lords are all aged. Could they simply are spending a nice long 300-400 yr Regeneration after spending at least one prior Regen to reach their position?

We do see young TimeLords as Guardsmen, so in theory is there is a full society beyond just the Elders in their Tower. It's very possible that some TimeLords spread out their Regenerations like the Hindu Ideal of a man dividing his life into Student, Warrior, Father, Hermit/Sage. In this case, it's spend a Regen to learn and get out into the Universe, see the sights, and once you're tired or jaded of the adventure, settle down and start making a serious business of your life.
The Doctor just never lost his joy in adventure, never wanted to settle down.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28838
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Broomstick »

In "The Invasion of Time" we also see "Outsiders", Gallifreyans who rejected the mainstream Time Lord society and lived out in the wilds wearing furs and using primitive weapons. There is no mention of whether or not Outsiders regenerate, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't given how much they have otherwise reverted to non-technological/primitive conditions. Unless regeneration is something that to at least some degree evolved in Gallifreyans, or is a changed induced in the entire species.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Stark »

paladin wrote:I was wondering if it was established what the lifespan of a timelord is? For that matter, what is the lifespan of a single regeneration for a timelord? I know it was stated within the series that a timelord can regenerate 12 times, so 13 lives.
The only real information is that single regenerations can last a few hundred years as a lower limit.
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Parallax »

The first Doctor's body wore out and he did technically go from old age, but that shell of his did go through some pretty serious trauma, especially since it was a tad different to later models (only had one heart, etc).
Think about it, knocked out numerous times by various means, lots of running about, and the big one - exposure to the Dalek's temporal weapon during The Dalek's Masterplan (at the same time it killed Sarah Kingdom).
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Captain Seafort »

Parallax wrote:Think about it, knocked out numerous times by various means, lots of running about, and the big one - exposure to the Dalek's temporal weapon during The Dalek's Masterplan (at the same time it killed Sarah Kingdom).
Not to mention the draining effect of Mondas that finally saw him off.
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Stark »

Since I'm not sure we have any idea how old that body was, it doesn't even matter. He could have looked really old and had a stoop for literally hundreds of years. Outside of dialog I'm not sure it gets any more concrete than 'a few hundred years at least'.
User avatar
Havok
Miscreant
Posts: 13016
Joined: 2005-07-02 10:41pm
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Havok »

He himself seems to think he is very old.
In the episode with the Master on the SHIELD Hellicarrier, he aged him 100 years once, then he aged him again like what, 900 or something. He just turned into a creepy little worm guy. Seems like each regen gets 1000 years plus.

Obviously they aren't immortal as he thinks the Face of Boe is a miracle.
Image
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Stark »

Immortality is p easy. And being turned into a hobbit by cowardice doesn't really count as regular wear and tear anyway. Everyone knows cowards live longer, after all.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by mr friendly guy »

I interpret the "live forever, barring accidents" line as an indication that its possible to keep on regenerating with TL technology. We see evidence of the Minyans using TL tech to continue doing so and the TL offering the Master another set of regenerations. However given that Time Lords only have 12 regenerations, I am of the opinion its an artificial limit they impose on themselves. Who wants to live forever anyway? Except Rassilon and a few others, but you get the picture.

Now how long does each incarnation last before the wear and tear of age gets them. I would roughly guess a bit more than 1000 years. In the Leisure Hive, Tom Baker's Doctor is artificially aged 1000 years older, and IIRC and he looked ancient. So I put it slightly more than that. Its however speculation on my part.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
jwl
Jedi Master
Posts: 1137
Joined: 2013-01-02 04:31pm

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by jwl »

In last of the time lords aging 1000 years did this to the doctor:
Image,
so you could give a limit of about 1000 years per regeneration.
However, aging 100 years did this to him:
Image
and a lot of the classic doctors reached this age without nearly the same aging effects.
Furthermore, this is the eleventh doctor aged 200 years:
Image
No problems whatsoever, so it can't have been retconned. Maybe the master's device caused some kind of "special aging " in the doctor.
I thought the first doctor died of fatigue, i.e. doing to much crazy stuff, as opposed to old age.
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Parallax »

I'd assume that whatever the Master did, stopped the Doctor's normal biology from keeping him physically fit/young.
Timey Wimey or something.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16430
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Batman »

Aging a hundred and then a thousand years in a matter of moments, as opposed to, say, a hundred and a thousand years might have had something to do with it.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Havok
Miscreant
Posts: 13016
Joined: 2005-07-02 10:41pm
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Havok »

Yeah being aged 100 or 1000 years without the nutrition to back it up, yet still being "immortal", you are probably going to end up looking like something out of Harry Potter.
Image
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
User avatar
Iroscato
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2360
Joined: 2011-02-07 03:04pm
Location: Great Britain (It's great, honestly!)

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Iroscato »

Perhaps just a tiny trace of regenerative energy resides in his body. It's known to have been enough to regrow a hand, though that was hours after a regeneration, but perhaps just enough is kept to keep him looking the same age for hundreds of years.
Jwl; I'm assuming you've seen the series 6 finale, but even so, I'll black it out because I'm nice. Spoiler
That wasn't the Doctor in America. It was the Tesselecta taking the form of the Doctor with him piloting it, and he may very well have lied about being 1103. In fact, I'm almost certain that he did.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

- SirNitram (RIP)
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Parallax »

I'm almost certain the Doctor no longer knows for sure how old he is any more.
User avatar
Havok
Miscreant
Posts: 13016
Joined: 2005-07-02 10:41pm
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Havok »

Of course he does. Why wouldn't he? He seems to be able to keep track of his "prime" timeline.
Image
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Parallax »

Because as early on as his fourth incarnation, he had it wrong (and Romana had to correct him).
User avatar
Havok
Miscreant
Posts: 13016
Joined: 2005-07-02 10:41pm
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Havok »

Proves nothing. The Doctor is constantly "absent minded" for effect.
Image
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
User avatar
Purple
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5233
Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by Purple »

Havok wrote:Yeah being aged 100 or 1000 years without the nutrition to back it up, yet still being "immortal", you are probably going to end up looking like something out of Harry Potter.
This is a seriously good point. No mater how the whole regeneration thing works his body must undergo the same natural regenerative processes ours do in terms of the day to day cell replacement. So suddenly dealing 1000 or even 100 years worth of that to a body with no fuel to use would be horrible if fun to watch.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
User avatar
jwl
Jedi Master
Posts: 1137
Joined: 2013-01-02 04:31pm

Re: Lifespan of a Timelord

Post by jwl »

Chimaera wrote:Perhaps just a tiny trace of regenerative energy resides in his body. It's known to have been enough to regrow a hand, though that was hours after a regeneration, but perhaps just enough is kept to keep him looking the same age for hundreds of years.
Jwl; I'm assuming you've seen the series 6 finale, but even so, I'll black it out because I'm nice. Spoiler
That wasn't the Doctor in America. It was the Tesselecta taking the form of the Doctor with him piloting it, and he may very well have lied about being 1103. In fact, I'm almost certain that he did.
Yeah, I forgot that. Although I'm pretty sure he mentioned being over 1000 a few other times, as well.
Post Reply