Doctor Who S33E15 "The Time of the Doctor" [Spoilers]

[NecronLord]

It's festivus again, which means we have the usual routine. Set up the aluminum time rotor and prepare for feats of strength. Please don't vote before the episode airs or I will reset it.

Cookie for anyone who gets all the quotes, no google!

Once the episode airs, no spoiler tags are necessary in this thread.

[Broomstick]

What time is it scheduled to air in the UK?

[NecronLord]

7.30pm local time.

[NecronLord]

Well that was bad. Blowing up the dalek saucer with eyebeams from his regeneration was particularly shit.

[ray245]

Agreed. What a let down.

[NecronLord]

It stung particularly because I had been expecting something the quality of 'Day of the Doctor.'

[2000AD]

Gave it 2, a very solid 'meh' on my care-o-meter. The whole angle of "Oh no I've already used all my regenerations" had absolutely zero tension as they'd not only announced but already cameod Capaldi in the role.

Side note: If memory serves me then Day of the Doctor said it was 400 years between Tennant and Smith in that episode, add the at least 300 years* stated in this episode, does that make Smith the longest living incarnation of The Doctor?

*Pretty sure he said it had been 300 years defending the town between when he first sent Clara away and when the Tardis returned, and then there's the second time he sent her away after that too.

[ray245]

I just felt that Clara simply doesn't know the Doctor long enough for me to feel why the Doctor is so close to her. It makes the whole story feels rather artificial.

[NecronLord]

does that make Smith the longest living incarnation of The Doctor?

Yes, the 900 figure was floating around and was applied to the First Doctor sometimes, but otherwise he'd be the oldest one. Visually they're about the same age at the time of expiration.

[Crazedwraith]

Gave it 2, a very solid 'meh' on my care-o-meter. The whole angle of "Oh no I've already used all my regenerations" had absolutely zero tension as they'd not only announced but already cameod Capaldi in the role.

*shrug* This is the same team that did the season long 'oh no the doctor is going to die for realsies!!!' plot arc. I expected them to milk the last regeneration thing since so many of the fans were clamouring for it to at least be explained.

I've not actually seen it yet but i'm sort of glad that Smith is the last Doctor confirms my reading on the Journey's End regeneration situation. On the other hand that requires them to acknowledge the existences of Journey's End. Swings and roudabouts I suppose.

[NecronLord]

In fairness they put a lantern on it, "My tenth incarnation regenerated but kept the same face, I was very vain back then."

[PREDATOR490]

2 - Self indulgent remix of old times is shit

Holographic clothes - Great way to telegraph your episode is worthless by having the Doctor appear naked, cant do the same with the female companion though because we know that would cause a shit storm.

Lame sex / relationship bullshit - Check, Clara and a priest

Daleks - I like how they basically dumped the whole 'new' Daleks in favor of just using the same models we have seen for years. What the hell was the point in the new paradigm or wiping their memories if they can just suck the brains out of everyone else and know who the Doctor is ?

Timelords / Gallifray - Pretty much a gigantic shoe-horn to wipe away the 13 lives bullshit which anyone with a brain knew was coming. I just find it hilarious Doctor Who has spent years bitching about Doctor Who and Gallifray needed him to say his name.... only to void the issue entirely. Of course anyone with a brain knew that was coming as well, as usual time spent building to a big reveal / climax which achieves fuck all but end in a regeneration.

Shitty Time bullshit - Seriously, what the fuck is going on ?
Daleks have the ability to raise the dead or alter time as they killed the priest 'several' times
This magical fleet of EVERYONE in the universe has been hanging around for hundreds of years in orbit of this planet fighting but they ignored the church, the TARDIS, The Doctor, Space Church... why ?

What the hell was the issue with Gallifray returning to the universe - I understand the Daleks going apeshit but everyone hates the Timelords because.... if they come back the time war will start again with the Daleks ?
If the Daleks already have time travel technology - which they apparently do, they should be more than capable of blasting everyone and would have noone to stop them because the Timelords are gone

Gallifray can / will send space magic through a crack to alter the future based on the voice of Clara ?
What the hell was the Doctor doing for 300ish years in front of that crack... if they could hear him reply then why didnt he fucking talk to them like Clara ?

Completely stupid shit:
1) Peter Capaldi - Can we get past the stupid cliche of the TARDIS ALWAYS being in trouble when the Doctor regenerates ?
Oh and thanks for introducing Capaldi as being a fucking idiot, right off the bat. Is it too much to expect a Doctor to be dignified in their regeneration rather than the slap-stick comedy routine ?
What makes it worse is that Matt Smith ALMOST, managed to pull off the Dignified exit only for Capaldi to shit all over it.

2) Starting scene - Great job in making the Cybermen and Daleks look pathetic when they cannot hit the Doctor at point blank range even when he enters their lair
3) Cyberman head - Why did the head translate the message for everyone in orbit... why the hell would they even have that thing broadcasting a translated message ?
4) Doctor shooting magical energy beams - Yeah, you destroyed one Dalek ship, they had been fighting over the planet for hundreds of years and called for reinforcements while all the other races retreated. Either the Doctor just destroyed an entire system worth of Daleks or this episode is so fucking stupid the Daleks won the entire orbital war with one ship being left in orbit.


Ugh, the stupid burns.
The only reason this gets a 2 instead of 0 is Matt Smith portion of the send-off and Jenna Coleman kinda worked.

[Iroscato]

Deary me, that was a messy pile of crap...the only saving graces were a few choice lines of dialogue, and the tying up of some of the loose ends. 2/5, and that's being generous.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'll go with a 3 because I had a good Christmas and am feeling generous. After The DAy of the Doctor it is certainly a let down, but I suspect it seems worse than it otherwise might because it's being compared to said anniversary special.

Atleast they finally explained the whole silence thing and the cracks and why they are bad. Also it would appear that the crack was in 11's hotel room in The God Complex.

I actually miss the new paradigm Daleks, although the Dalek voice bellowing fromt he sky did sound like the new paradigm Supreme, so maybe they are just the leaders and they're using the old Time War style casings for simpllicity.

[Soontir C'boath]

Most of the stories that required a narrator has sucked hard so far (except for Blink, IIRC), and this is certainly one of them. Just as sappy and crappy as Tennant's regeneration if not more. I will not miss Moffat when he finally leaves.

You know how you'd have a character who is dying and they write it to comically drag out his death? Except this wasn't funny nor interesting.

Gave it a 2 for the record.

[Tribble]

Well, my guess wasn't too far off the mark. It looks like both sides would immediately start the Time War again if they come into contact with one another. I would imagine that the rest of the universe wants to keep the Timelords from coming back because they don't want to end up being caught in the cross fire. Besides which it's not like the Timelords are innocent here: it's implied that over the course of the war they became just as ruthless as the Daleks. Don't forget that they used every apocalyptic weapon in their arsenal except for the Moment, and the only reason they didn't use it was because they feared what it would do to them if they tried. And some of them tried to rip all of reality apart. I doubt the Doctor will rescue the Timelords until he figures out a way to make both sides calm down and back off from the fighting... not an easy thing to do given that the Daleks want to exterminate the entire universe and from the Timelord's perspective only seconds (at most) have passed since they were put in stasis.

And once again, Clara "Mary Sue" Oswald saves the day. Rose Tyler's stint as a deus ex machina may have been annoying... but at least it was brief. Seriously, she's got nothing on Clara, who is single handily responsible for everything from ret-conning the Time War, to giving the Doctor a new set of regenerations, to even his choice of TARDIS! When Clara held onto it I was really hoping that it would do us all a favour and throw her into the Sun... no doubt she'd bounce right back, but at least we'd be spared from her presence for a few seconds.

[xerex]

Most of the stories that required a narrator has sucked hard so far (except for Blink, IIRC), and this is certainly one of them. Just as sappy and crappy as Tennant's regeneration if not more. I will not miss Moffat when he finally leaves.
.

'show not tell' appears to be something this set of Dr Who writers dont know about.

They could have easily switched to Clara's POV so that when she returned the Doctor's age would have bee na surprise to the viewer.

Alternatively just show the Doctor defending the town. The Baranable character would have been a great way of showing the passage of time. Boy-teen -adult, Baranable jr, Barnable III

[PREDATOR490]

This episode indicated the Timelords did not need saving, they sent a message through all of time and space for the Doctor to somehow give them the green light to come back by telling him his name. Not really clear how his name is going to magically open all of time and space unless its just a code signal. Outside of Doctor Who wank about the Doctor being Jesus incarnate.
That said, this episode really screws up on that score because it would have been nice to actually see what the hell is going on behind the crack. Was Oswald talking to the entire planet or some sort of leadership that decided - "fuck going home because we love the Doctor and a pretty woman voice told us to change the "future""

How the hell does Gallifray know how to change the future if they have been stuck in limbo for whatever length of time in another universe ?
If they can 'change' the future... whats stopping them from starting this stunt all over again ?

As for the bullshit time-war.
All of the universe decides to gang up against the Timelords because if they come back... it will start a Time War with the Daleks... who are part of that gang to begin with and literally killing all the others ANYWAY. The Timelords may not be angels but kinda silly for that to result in everyone making an alliance with the devil who is literally killing you.

Would it not be simpler for the massive gang to just go genocidal on the Daleks or are we to believe the Daleks are so powerful they can take on the entire universe... ?
How does that make the idea screwing the only race capable of taking the Daleks on more sensible ?
Especially since the Daleks would need Time Travel to begin with to have another Time War... if they already have that technology then without the Timelords who is left that can stop the Daleks going nuclear on everyone ?

Loved the stupid cameo from the Weeping Angels - Those things should have ended the episode but apparently they decided to go in 'slow mode' then vanish for no reason.

[mr friendly guy]

Gave it a 3. Not really worth buying the DVD. Not quite as bad as what I previously gave for Moffat's run, ie the rating of not even worth pirating.

Back to this story.

1. Ok, it was nice pay off to show that the crack in the universe was caused by a renegade faction of the Church of the mainframe trying to stop the Doctor bringing back the Time Lords, but instead create the crack which the Time Lords could come back in.

2. There is no reason for the crack to close at the end of the episode. I mean, don't the Time Lords want to come back in. Unfortunately the pay off stopped because the Doctor didn't answer the stupid question and we don't see the result (presumably the Time Lords come back). Its implied by the Doctor the TL were just wanting him to speak his name to reassure them it was safe to enter. Unfortunately once they allowed the Doctor to defeat the Daleks attacking Trenzalore the answer should have been obvious. The Daleks aren't as numerous, and potential enemies just fought each other and killed each other.

3. Time war restart, wah wah wah. I mean this starting the Time War shit doesn't make sense. Ok, so the Daleks might be weaker than their Time War versions, and they certainly aren't fielding 10 million saucers any more. But why would you be scared of the Time War starting again? Wouldn't the Time Lords just kick arse this time with the Daleks less numerous? The only way I can think of this is that the Church was more afraid the Time Lords would dominate, and that this claim of the Time War restarting is just an excuse.

The only other explanation is from RTD's reign, when "hell is descending" when Gallifrey returns. This makes no sense as when Rassilon tried to bring Gallifrey back, it was during the Time War. This time Gallifrey transplanted itself to another universe and the Time War ended. It makes no fucking sense.

4. Deus ex machina. Ok so the Time Lords gave the Doctor some Atron energy / energy from Vortex / insert plot device here to regenerate and blow up the Dalek ship. All the while the Daleks cede the initiative to the Doctor purely because they are afraid.

At least Clara wasn't that big of a deus ex machina (it was more the Time Lords) and River Song is only mentioned and thankfully does not appear.

Here is hoping Capaldi can do something with the role. Smith is clearly a talented actor, but even a genius will find it hard to transmute shit to gold.

[Atlan]

A very solid "Meh" as far as I'm concerned. Lot's of neat ideas, very shit execution.

[DaveJB]

3 - Decent exit for Smith, let down by the fact that the episode's main story never seemed to have any sort of payoff. Rather than just telling Gallifrey to go away and find somewhere safer to break back into our universe, The Doctor spends 500(?) years hanging around a planet so that he can... die of old age and the Daleks can blow the crap out of the planet anyway? Yeah, I get the feeling that Moffat's focus was on Day of the Doctor, and this was pretty much just an afterthought. The wrap-up of the whole "Silence will fall" stuff also seemed rather perfunctory, but it's probably for the best that they're wiping the slate clean for Capaldi. Overall though, definitely a better exit episode than The End of Time was.

Also, since I believe that Moffat now has broadly the same number of episodes under his belt as RTD did, any thoughts as to who the better showrunner of the two is?

[Sharp-kun]

I never thought I'd say it but I actually prefer RTD's stuff now.

[NecronLord]

As an aside, is this a field gun, or a dalek armoured vehicle? Any guesses?

[Tribble]

3. Time war restart, wah wah wah. I mean this starting the Time War shit doesn't make sense. Ok, so the Daleks might be weaker than their Time War versions, and they certainly aren't fielding 10 million saucers any more. But why would you be scared of the Time War starting again? Wouldn't the Time Lords just kick arse this time with the Daleks less numerous? The only way I can think of this is that the Church was more afraid the Time Lords would dominate, and that this claim of the Time War restarting is just an excuse.

The Time Lords were apparently in stasis, so they haven't fully recovered either. We don't know for sure, but it seems like they don't have any TARDIS's left to use apart from the Doctor's. I think your idea makes sense: the Timelords have been missing for hundreds of years and other species are now used to the fact that they are no longer around. They probably ganged together to try and prevent the Timelords from rebuilding.

[mr friendly guy]

3. Time war restart, wah wah wah. I mean this starting the Time War shit doesn't make sense. Ok, so the Daleks might be weaker than their Time War versions, and they certainly aren't fielding 10 million saucers any more. But why would you be scared of the Time War starting again? Wouldn't the Time Lords just kick arse this time with the Daleks less numerous? The only way I can think of this is that the Church was more afraid the Time Lords would dominate, and that this claim of the Time War restarting is just an excuse.

The Time Lords were apparently in stasis, so they haven't fully recovered either. We don't know for sure, but it seems like they don't have any TARDIS's left to use apart from the Doctor's. I think your idea makes sense: the Timelords have been missing for hundreds of years and other species are now used to the fact that they are no longer around. They probably ganged together to try and prevent the Timelords from rebuilding.

I know they were put in stasis, but it seems they recovered enough to find the weak point in the universe and able to send a message. They most probably aren't fielding that many TARDISes, but I agree that they are seen as a threat by the other species.