What Non SW/ST/B5 Calcs are there?

[Shadow WarChief]

This is slight inspired off of the science links in the SLMF forum.


Everybody know where to go for links on the Big 3 of sci-fi, but what about the more obscure ones which no one ever really bothers counting but you need from time to time like the occasional Andromeda calc, or Go'ould calc or even the occasional Godzilla calc?

Let's make this thread a directory of calcs for the more obscure sci-fi who's only calcs don't get that much recognition.

Just post the links and what it relates to.

[SCVN 2812]

Well there are some blue prints for Space: Above and Beyond that have power ratings for the lasers but nothing on their other weapons. I don't have a link atm though.

[XaLEv]

I did some calcs to find the power of Andromeda KE missiles. The original thread is here. One of these missiles, travelling at .9 c, will have a yield of 27 megatons. The impact time would be approximately 370 picoseconds, with the missile's wattage coming out at 3.1e26 W.

[Renewed_Valour1]

I did some calcs to find the power of Andromeda KE missiles..

An ELS tube can salvo 8 missiles a second.

[XaLEv]

An ELS tube can salvo 8 missiles a second.

Indeed. Your point?

[omegaLancer]

donot forget it also have 40 tubes for 320 missile per second, but at a lousy 20mt ( Show alway quotes 20mt, Dilan Hunt is proud of the figure) it is way under power compared to SW vessels...

[Crossover_Maniac]

The offensive missiles of the Andromeda are 1 kilogram projectiles traveling at 90% of the speed of light or 270 million meters per second. The kinetic energy of these missiles are 8.36E16 joules or 19.91 megatons. The momentum of the missiles are 6.19E8 kg*m/s .
Now, some people of this list will say this proves CW ships are ineffective against SW ships' shields and would be slaughtered in a conventional battle in comparison with heavy turbolasers. However, if you look carefully, you'll it's not so clear cut.

Before going any further, I suggest reading Mike Wong's shield commentary in the technology section of his page . Now, in the shield commentary, Mike Wong made calculations on how much force was applied to shields during a collision with an asteroid 70 meters in diameter with a density of iron traveling at 1000 meters per second with a momentum of 1.25E12 kg*m/s. This is over 2000 times the momentum of the Andromeda's missiles, but don't count out the CW forces just yet. There are two reasons why:

1). According to the shield commentary, in a scene in ROTJ, a Rebel fighter slamming in the bridge of an ISD and disintegrated at a distance of 10 meters from the surface of the ISD bridge, given a width of ten meters between the shields and the surface of the ISD's. This gives the asteroid 0.02 seconds to stop. The lower limit of force needed to stop the asteroid was 6.25E13 Newtons and more if the asteroid was stopped in less of a duration but the force would have a shorter interval of time. Now, let's look and see how much force would be needed to stop a CW kinetic kill offensive missile. In order to calculate the constant acceleration to decelerate an object at relativistic velocities, the equation of t=(2*x/a)^0.5 can not be used since time and distances of an object at relativistic speed changes from the point of view of a stationary observer. The calculations used are

t=[(d/c)^2+2*d/a]^0.5 and v=at/[1+(at/c)^2]^0.5 from USENET Physics FAQ website where t is the time from the observation of the stationary observer (the Imperial Star Destroyer), d is the distance of the acceleration which is 10 meters, c is the speed of light. The acceleration worked itself to be 1.16E16 meters per second to the stationary observer. And with a mass of one kilogram, the force needed to stop the projectile is 1.16E16 Newtons. This is 187 times the force generated by the Hoth asteroid in calculation given in Mike Wong's shield commentary and larger than any of the Hoth asteroids. If the Hoth asteroids were able to sustain damage to the ISD's, it's not that hard to image the damage that the kinetic kill missiles could do. However, some of you may say, the ISD's survived at least 3 days of asteroid bombardment and still survived. The Andromeda would have to pound on the ISD a while before even collapsing its shields. That's assuming the firing rate of the offesive missiles were the same as the average asteroid collision rate. The forty ELS missile lauchings each has a firing rate of 8 missiles per second. That's a maximum rate of fire of 320 missiles per second. The Hoth asteroid collision rate doesn't even come close. Plus top with the fact that each one will generate at least 200 times more force than the average Hoth asteroid, the ISD wouldn't last longer than a few minutes. That is if the shields hold.

2). Let's look a little deeper than momentum transfers. Take a .22 caliber bullet, and a human fist. Believe it or not, a human fist has more momentum than a .22 caliber bullet. If anyone ever shot .22 caliber rifle, they know there is very little recoil. This is an indication of the low momentum of the bullet (conservation of momentum or Newton's 3 rd Law). There is more force generated by a person hitting you in the shoulder. Now, in the light that there is less momentum in a .22 caliber bullet fired from a rifle than a human throwing a punch, which you'd rather have if you only had two choices: Mike Tyson hitting you in the head or a head shot from a .22 caliber rifle? Obviously, as bad as it going to hurt, you'd rather take one to the head from Mike than from the bullet. This has to do with shear stress or the amount of force generated per unit area. Not only does the bullet has a higher velocity to decelerate from than the human fist, but all of the force is concentrated on a cross-section of .245 cm^2 as opposed to a cross section of 38.7 cm^2 for a human fist that is approximately 1.5 X 4 sq. in. (3.81X10.16 cm^2). Now, let's go back to the Hoth asteroids. Let's take an asteroid that is roughly cube-shaped, 70 meters on the side, and with a density of 7000 kg/m^3, and the same acceleration as the asteroid in the previous example given by Mike Wong, which is 1.2E14 Newtons of force. Next, we divide this number by the cross-section of the asteroid striking the shields, which is 4900 m^2, and assume it's hitting the ship at a right angle of its surface. The sheer stress is 24.5 GPa. Let's assume also the kinetic-kill missile is cube-shaped (more likely, it would be bullet shaped, for the sake of simplication, we're going with cube-shaped) and also with a density of 7000 kg/m^3. The volume of the missile would be 1/7000 m^3 or 1.43E-4 m^3. Cube rooting this number, the dimension of the missile would only be 5.23 cm on the side. The shear stress of the missile would be 8.12E10 GPa. This is over 3 billion times higher than the shear stress produced by the asteroid given in the example. Given the fact that the ISD's took damage from the Hoth asteroids, the EPS missiles will make hundreds of fist-size holes in the ISD's per second from one side of the ship to the other, leaving a trail of super-heated plasma from impacting with the hull, air, personnel, etc. and cooking alive anyone unfortunate enough to be near the trail made by the missiles. Those that are further away will be hit by energetic particles traveling at relativistic speeds and sterilizing the ship with radiation. Within a minute, an ISD would be swissed cheesed, internally heated, and radiated by relativistic projectiles.

[Master of Ossus]

I just went through some Homeworld calculations with SirNitram. It wasn't much, but it was a start.

[omegaLancer]

The problem with your agruement Crossover is your assumption on the nature of star war shields and Shield generator bracing..

You are saying that A SW Force shield stop missiles and other object by apply an unknown force directily to an object to brake it.. What if it doesnot, instead what if the particle shield is actual a screen of particles that extend from the ship to a fix distant..

What happen to a missile going at 95 PSL if it hit a spect of dust?

I image that SW shield may actual be a screen of electrons or other Leptons, a CW missile hitting the screen would have the same effect as if it was hit by a particle/ electron beam where the electrons are traveling at 95 psl.

In this case a missile going at 95 psl hitting such particles would be vaporized after travel a short distant.

This is back by various scenes in the Hoth Asteriod belt, where meteors appear to to vaporize before striking ISD, just like they were hit by Turbolasers.

And would explain why Kinectic base weapons like Mass drivers and Gauss cannons are not used.. The only mention of any kinectic base weapon, was in Shield of lies and it was the weapon of a planet that was suppose to be unable to buy first class defenses like Planetary shields and planetary turbo batteries..

In the case of the Meteor that struck the bridge of the unknown ISD, there are two explaination. One either the shield was off ( the most common), or the too massive for the Particle screen to it destroy before it impacted..

Which would match with the fact that the ESWGTWAT state that it particle shield also strenghten the hull against objects that manages to strike the hull thru the particle shields. So it does not Stop the object like a standard force field, an object can still pass thru ( and they do if it heavy shielded vs the Ionic effect, like AT-AT did to the Hoth shield, and War droids did in TPM) or massive like another Capital ship..


But for a 1.5 KG at missile this should not be a problem .
Even a massive volley would not be a problem since the missiles provide the energy needed for their own destruction.. So it very likily that any common wealth ship would empty its ammo magazine before it could ever hope to harm any SW Capital ship...


There would still be a problem with momentum but the fact that SW has the Technology to provide bracing for turbolaser batteries against the kickback of a ship broadside in the Gigatons ( the kickback alone is measure in that range) and the fact that the particle shield also strenghten the hull and all structures mounted on the hull..

unlike Star Trek with small ship can collide with larger vessel and destroy them, the only collision with a fighter that ever harm a star destroyer occured after the shield were off and it luckily hit the tranparent steel bridge window, if it collided against the main hull it would not have harm the ship.

I did find several case where hi speed collision have harm other SW vessels, one invovle a massive heavily armor Droid ship ( slighily smaller than a ISD) created for this function, and the Sun Crusher ramming a ISD ( in the case of the Sun Crusher its Quantum armor was design to withstand direct hit from turbo laser) . Another invovle a Dreadnought colliding with a star Destroyer. But these case fit into the Particle screen theory...

[XaLEv]

Crossover_Maniac:

I'm curious as to how you arrived at your energy figure. By my calculations, 8.36E16 J would be the KE of 1 Kg travelling at ~ .855 c, not .9 c.

[Renewed_Valour1]

What happen to a missile going at 95 PSL if it hit a spect of dust?

It would vaporize into plasma going at 90 PSL. Then the plasma jet would still rip an expanding path of damage right through your ship at 90 PSL The whole concept of the battle blades is to vaporize missiles before they hit the hull so the AG fields can deflect the plasma jet.

donot forget it also have 40 tubes for 320 missile per second, but at a lousy 20mt ( Show alway quotes 20mt, Dilan Hunt is proud of the figure) it is way under power compared to SW vessels...

The 20 mt is the approximated low end figure they use on the show. However All Systems confirms that the missiles travel at 90 PSL and mass 1 kilo giving them a yield of 27 mt You're also trying to make the claim that just because the High Guard's weakest weapon isn't up to Imperial Standards all their weapons must be weak. The smart missiles are an unknown number of times more powerful than kinetic missiles. The AP tanks of the Maru can destroy a small planet and the Andromeda firing her AP cannons steady can empty her tanks in a few seconds.

[Darth Wong]

One of these missiles, travelling at .9 c, will have a yield of 27 megatons. The impact time would be approximately 370 picoseconds, with the missile's wattage coming out at 3.1e26 W.

You are assuming that the missile stops, thus converting 100% of its kinetic energy into other forms of energy. In fact, I have noticed that in everyone else's posts on this subject as well: it is invariably assumed that 100% of the missile's kinetic energy finds its way into the target. That assumption is not reasonable.

There are basically 2 possibilities when a relativistic impactor strikes an object:

1. It passes through the object like a bullet through paper. Even if it vapourizes in the process, the vapour still has forward momentum many orders of magnitude greater than any randomization effect due to vapourization, and it will pass out the other side of the ship. Most of the impactor's kinetic energy will not affect the ship, because it will remain with the impactor as it continues on its way.
2. It is blocked by the shields. This means that the shield generator mounts must be able to withstand the necessary reaction forces as dictated by Newton's third law, and the impactor will release 100% of its kinetic energy in other forms, mostly thermal.

However, the widespread assumption that it will penetrate the ship and release all of its kinetic energy is not logical; it combines two outcomes into one.

[SirNitram]

I'm currently working on calc's for Homeworld and Homeworld: Cataclysm.

Anyone know how much energy produces a plasma explosion some 60Km in diameter?

[NecronLord]

Anyone know how much energy is required to melt the crust of an (earth standard) planet?

[XaLEv]

You are assuming that the missile stops, thus converting 100% of its kinetic energy into other forms of energy.

Yes, I am. This calc was only meant to provide a rough figure for their wattage, in order to determine their effect on Star Wars shields as shown in the ICS.

[Crossover_Maniac]

The problem with your agruement Crossover is your assumption on the nature of star war shields and Shield generator bracing..

You are saying that A SW Force shield stop missiles and other object by apply an unknown force directily to an object to brake it.. What if it doesnot, instead what if the particle shield is actual a screen of particles that extend from the ship to a fix distant..

What happen to a missile going at 95 PSL if it hit a spect of dust?

I image that SW shield may actual be a screen of electrons or other Leptons, a CW missile hitting the screen would have the same effect as if it was hit by a particle/ electron beam where the electrons are traveling at 95 psl.

You are aware that electrons only has 1/1800 th the mass of a photon which is at 1.6E-27 kg. There has to be a really, really dense field of electrons there or some other Lepton particle. Also, even if you stop the CW missile with the electron field, all you have done transfer momentum from the missile to the electrons hit by the missile accelerating them to relativstic velocity causing them to collide with the ISD hull.

In this case a missile going at 95 psl hitting such particles would be vaporized after travel a short distant.

And the vaporized particles will collide with the ship at relativistic velocity.

This is back by various scenes in the Hoth Asteriod belt, where meteors appear to to vaporize before striking ISD, just like they were hit by Turbolasers.

The meteors struck the ISD at 1 km/s at the most. That's a far cry from 270,000 km/s.

And would explain why Kinectic base weapons like Mass drivers and Gauss cannons are not used.. The only mention of any kinectic base weapon, was in Shield of lies and it was the weapon of a planet that was suppose to be unable to buy first class defenses like Planetary shields and planetary turbo batteries..

It may be that the Empire lacks the technology to accelerate missiles relativistic velocities without a long distance making it impactical at short ranges. CW missiles have accelerations measured in the millions of g's opposed to 72,000 g's which is the highest acceleration seen in SW projectiles. The Eureka Maru could out accelerate Luke's proton torpedo.

In the case of the Meteor that struck the bridge of the unknown ISD, there are two explaination. One either the shield was off ( the most common), or the too massive for the Particle screen to it destroy before it impacted..

I think the latter explaination is better in light of the Battle of Hoth and duration of time in the asteroid field.

Which would match with the fact that the ESWGTWAT state that it particle shield also strenghten the hull against objects that manages to strike the hull thru the particle shields. So it does not Stop the object like a standard force field, an object can still pass thru ( and they do if it heavy shielded vs the Ionic effect, like AT-AT did to the Hoth shield, and War droids did in TPM) or massive like another Capital ship..


But for a 1.5 KG at missile this should not be a problem .

A projectile's penatration power is also proportional to its velocity. The velocity of the CW missiles are higher than SW projectile seen.

Even a massive volley would not be a problem since the missiles provide the energy needed for their own destruction.. So it very likily that any common wealth ship would empty its ammo magazine before it could ever hope to harm any SW Capital ship...


There would still be a problem with momentum but the fact that SW has the Technology to provide bracing for turbolaser batteries against the kickback of a ship broadside in the Gigatons ( the kickback alone is measure in that range) and the fact that the particle shield also strenghten the hull and all structures mounted on the hull..

I've already shown the forces generated by the shields trying to stop CW missiles are greater than those produced by the heavy turbolaser batteries, and concentrated in a smaller area in a part of the ship without the proper reinforcement to take that sort of stress. Sorry, but an ISD that had trouble dealing with the impacts of the Hoth asteroids isn't stopping .9c projectiles.

unlike Star Trek with small ship can collide with larger vessel and destroy them, the only collision with a fighter that ever harm a star destroyer occured after the shield were off and it luckily hit the tranparent steel bridge window, if it collided against the main hull it would not have harm the ship.

I did find several case where hi speed collision have harm other SW vessels, one invovle a massive heavily armor Droid ship ( slighily smaller than a ISD) created for this function, and the Sun Crusher ramming a ISD ( in the case of the Sun Crusher its Quantum armor was design to withstand direct hit from turbo laser) . Another invovle a Dreadnought colliding with a star Destroyer. But these case fit into the Particle screen theory...[/quote]

[Crossover_Maniac]

One of these missiles, travelling at .9 c, will have a yield of 27 megatons. The impact time would be approximately 370 picoseconds, with the missile's wattage coming out at 3.1e26 W.

You are assuming that the missile stops, thus converting 100% of its kinetic energy into other forms of energy. In fact, I have noticed that in everyone else's posts on this subject as well: it is invariably assumed that 100% of the missile's kinetic energy finds its way into the target. That assumption is not reasonable.

There are basically 2 possibilities when a relativistic impactor strikes an object:

1. It passes through the object like a bullet through paper. Even if it vapourizes in the process, the vapour still has forward momentum many orders of magnitude greater than any randomization effect due to vapourization, and it will pass out the other side of the ship. Most of the impactor's kinetic energy will not affect the ship, because it will remain with the impactor as it continues on its way.
2. It is blocked by the shields. This means that the shield generator mounts must be able to withstand the necessary reaction forces as dictated by Newton's third law, and the impactor will release 100% of its kinetic energy in other forms, mostly thermal.

However, the widespread assumption that it will penetrate the ship and release all of its kinetic energy is not logical; it combines two outcomes into one.

I tend to lean towards choice two. While most of the KE will not be absorbed, the wake of CW missile will leave in its path superheated plasma and will probably irradiate the vicnity with relativistic subatomic particles.

[Crossover_Maniac]

unlike Star Trek with small ship can collide with larger vessel and destroy them, the only collision with a fighter that ever harm a star destroyer occured after the shield were off and it luckily hit the tranparent steel bridge window, if it collided against the main hull it would not have harm the ship.

I did find several case where hi speed collision have harm other SW vessels, one invovle a massive heavily armor Droid ship ( slighily smaller than a ISD) created for this function, and the Sun Crusher ramming a ISD ( in the case of the Sun Crusher its Quantum armor was design to withstand direct hit from turbo laser) . Another invovle a Dreadnought colliding with a star Destroyer. But these case fit into the Particle screen theory...

[/quote]

Oops! I forgot to put omegalancer's dialogue into quotes. But omegalancer, a projectile doesn't have to be large to do damage. Otherwise, battleship armor should stop 16-inch shells and could only be destroyed by being rammed by a vessel of comparable size.

[SirNitram]

Anyone know how much energy is required to melt the crust of an (earth standard) planet?

Check Mike's BDZ discussions.

[Darth Wong]

I tend to lean towards choice two. While most of the KE will not be absorbed, the wake of CW missile will leave in its path superheated plasma and will probably irradiate the vicnity with relativistic subatomic particles.

Sure, but in what quantity?

The point I was trying to make before is that a relativistic impactor will impart a very small fraction of its KE into its target, unless it is stopped. If it goes through as you say, then it will tend to punch a hole and lose very little of its velocity, which means very little of its KE goes into plasma/debris/etc. Your earlier musings about a ship being reduced to a burned-out husk requires either very large numbers of missiles (which in turn presumes that the missile-firing platform gets off lots of accurate shots while the target doesn't) or high transfer ratios.

PS. Regarding the relativistic subatomic particles, the relativistic component of their velocity will still be in the same direction as the original impactor, hence they will fly out the other side.

[Crossover_Maniac]

I tend to lean towards choice two. While most of the KE will not be absorbed, the wake of CW missile will leave in its path superheated plasma and will probably irradiate the vicnity with relativistic subatomic particles.

Sure, but in what quantity?

The point I was trying to make before is that a relativistic impactor will impart a very small fraction of its KE into its target, unless it is stopped. If it goes through as you say, then it will tend to punch a hole and lose very little of its velocity, which means very little of its KE goes into plasma/debris/etc. Your earlier musings about a ship being reduced to a burned-out husk requires either very large numbers of missiles (which in turn presumes that the missile-firing platform gets off lots of accurate shots while the target doesn't) or high transfer ratios.

The ship being discussed has 40 relativistic missile launchers firing at a rate of eight missiles per second each. The missiles are guided and are quite accurate. Two to three thousand hits in a peroid of 10-15 seconds is not out of the question. As for transfer of kinetic energy into thermal, now that I think about it, it wouldn't be much, but what energy that transfer would probably produce a shockwave across the wake of the missile due to the sudden heating and expansion of air coming in contact with the missile. How large of a shockwave, I don't know.

[omegaLancer]

Cross over photons donot have mass... Actually you may have meant protons.. Funny that Electrons are used in mining.. An electron gun is used by mining company to fracture rock where dynamite and explosive cannot be used.. The electron guns barily fire the electron at a fracture of the speed of light..

In this case since the missile is moving at 95 PSL, the electron themselve donot need to have a large KE. Do to Relativitic Velocity of the missile it collision with the electron is the same as if the missiles was standing still and the electrons striking it was accelerated to 95 psl.


one of the potential Particle beam that was study by the Regan's SW comitee was such an Electron base system.. It was judge to be more damaging than Laser, and was one of the several system work on, before project was drop...

Recentily the English military develop such an electronic shield to destroy the molten copper ejected mass used by Heat Warheads of RPG rockets.
( you can check out the Particle shield discussion in SW forum for the posting of the article)..


The Point defense lasers used by the Andromeda are rated at 50MW, so we must assume that this the Max energy needed to destroy or vaporizated a KE missiles so Vaporizating a missile would be no problem...

And if the missile doesnot strike there is no momentum problem...

[Connor MacLeod]

The 20 mt is the approximated low end figure they use on the show. However All Systems confirms that the missiles travel at 90 PSL and mass 1 kilo giving them a yield of 27 mt You're also trying to make the claim that just because the High Guard's weakest weapon isn't up to Imperial Standards all their weapons must be weak. The smart missiles are an unknown number of times more powerful than kinetic missiles.

The smart missiles (and any other weapon) must be less than a gigaton. According to allsystems.org, the oracle drones (http://www.allsystems.org/engineering/oracle.shtml) can be used as offensive kamikazes against an opponent. According to the site, they release up to a gigaton worth of KE. This places an upper limit on all the other weapons, since if they could inflict as much/or more individually, there would be no reason at all to use the Oracles as kamikazes (since they have proportionately FAR more missiles than they do drones).

Therefore, the upper limit for an XMC would be 320 GT/s with its most powerful missiles. DSA-2's would be pumping out 1,440 GT/s. This does, however, assume 100% accuracy, no interceptions, etc.

The AP tanks of the Maru can destroy a small planet and the Andromeda firing her AP cannons steady can empty her tanks in a few seconds.

Which doesn't tell us much quantitative, assuming its even accurate or true. I've been over this with Light Soldier on SB. This must be a rather small "planet" - probably more of a planetoid, for that to be true. Otherwise the output of the beam weapons would be many orders of magnitude greater than the missiles (which would be stupid. Why have teraton/petaton energy weapons and still use megaton range missiles?)

Aside from that, the amount of antimatter they'd be required to carry would be tremendous, very likely VASTLY outweighing the ship itself, which I believe is at most 100,000 tons fully loaded anyhow.

Third, consider that expelling too much mass from the AP guns would have the unpleasant side effect of propelling the ship in the OPPOSITE direction of firing, a-la reaction jet. To counter this they'd have to expend thrust in that direction to counter, in an equal amount. They might be able to compensate for some measure of recoil, but there are definite limits, especially considering how relatively light such ships are.

IIRC there were statements that the XMC's AP guns output was greater than the combined output of its beam weapons, which infers an output of 500-600 Megatons/s minimum for the AP cannons. Not unreasonable, but its also unlikely to be much more than an order of magnitude greater or so, either. (it would be ridiculous to have missile weapons that are 100x or more less powerful than your beam weapons.)

This infers that the upper limit on an XMC's beam weapons putting out less than 32,000 GT/s at the absolute most, and probably 3,200 GT/s at most, if even that. They might be able to do this if they can empty all their tanks in a few seconds, if the quote is as true as you claim.

[Connor MacLeod]

You are assuming that the missile stops, thus converting 100% of its kinetic energy into other forms of energy.

Yes, I am. This calc was only meant to provide a rough figure for their wattage, in order to determine their effect on Star Wars shields as shown in the ICS.

I question whether that wattage figure is neccesarily accurate. By official sources, TLs and even lasers move at or near lightspeed, so a single TL bolt (to say nothing of a laser bolt) should have enough wattage to bypass the shields FAR more readily than that missile. By that logic then, their own weapons should be punching through SW shields effortlressly.

The actual wattage is going to depend on how quickly the energy is transferred. This in turn is harder to determine, because not all collisions are the same So at best, we treat this as a potential figure, not as an actual one.

And even if we assume it IS accurate, this does not mean it penetrates the shields. According to the ICS, SW shields are absorption/reradiation devices. The heat sinks would simply absorb the energy if it struck too fast to be deflected/radiated away. And the sinks would have to be capable of absorbing at least many gigatons if not teratons of energy, both thermal and kinetic. Odds are they still wouldn't bypass the shields except by sustained and repeated bombardment, and 20 megatons of energy is relatively insignificant compared to the levels of energy they deal with routinely in combat, requiring many thousands of missile strikes to even overload the heat sinks.)

[The Yosemite Bear]

Oh yeah a Bolo Mark XXX is rated at:

Primary Hellbores 3: each at 30mt/second
Secondary Infinate Repeater Hellbores 24: each at 2mt/second
Missiles: approximatly 20 Missiles: 50 mt average yield

Total Firepower capabale of hitting one target in orbit in one instant: 90mt (All three Primary Hellbores)+timed multi axis missile hits (400mt can coordinate 8 strikes at once or two volleys of four missiles) 490mt to an orbiting target.

No stats on the new Hellrail system.