Imperium of Man vs Star Wars(clone wars era)

[Gurgeh]

WI: A wormhole on the edges of IOM Space were to link to the 40K Galaxy on the edges of the Unknown Regions of the SW galaxy? The Battle will take place sometimes during the height of the Clone Wars. How will the Separatists and the Republic react to an IOM invasion?

[Borgholio]

Depends on the scale of the invasion. If it's just a couple fleets then I don't see anything happening. If it's an invasion of tens of thousands of ships...then what happens depends on who they target first. If IOM focuses on just the Republic or the Separatists, then I can see the other side sitting back and letting the war be won for them. If the IOM fleet just attacks everyone and everything they cross paths with, then I see, at least, a cease-fire so both sides can focus on the main enemy.

With that out of the way, I think the SW ships were quantified as being more powerful than IOM ships...not to mention far faster. Once mobilized, I see the battle going for the SW galaxy.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As for who they attack, that's easy. Once they an idea of who the major players are, the CIS will be the primary target, since it's all xenos (and robots, the IOM don't like robots) whilst the Republic, despite having many different species, is at least run by a human and it's soldiers are mostly human-cloned.

[Ted C]

But the Republic is allowing itself to be manipulated by a bunch of rogue psykers, so the IOM can't be friendly to them, either.

[Eternal_Freedom]

True, but I think that "foul xenos" trumps "rogue psykers who aren't exploding into warp storms" for the top of the "must kill" list.

[Ted C]

True, but I think that "foul xenos" trumps "rogue psykers who aren't exploding into warp storms" for the top of the "must kill" list.

Tricky question. The Imperium can be mighty twitchy about rogue psykers. However, the Republic does seem to have theirs on a "leash" or sorts.

[Eternal_Freedom]

And the psykers are not exactly "rogue." They are smiting xenos and evil robots after all.

[Grumman]

But the Republic is allowing itself to be manipulated by a bunch of rogue psykers, so the IOM can't be friendly to them, either.

The Jedi, or the Sith? The Jedi gather up the galaxy's psykers and train them to be of use to the Republic - not unlike what the Imperium does with their Black Ships. There is only one Sith Master, and he could likely convince the Imperium that his "I must remake the Republic into something that can stand against the Yuuzan Vong" strategy is the right approach. If an Inquisitor or Librarian confronted him the way Mace Windu did in Revenge of the Sith he'd likely be rudely surprised by the fact that being eight feet tall and able to create black holes by pure force of will trumps force lightning, but it's unlikely to get that far.

[NecronLord]

How are they going to get anywhere without an astronomicon, or without navigational charts? Why will the Republic and/or Seperatists (IE the Sith) not step on them and capture some of their neater things for general use? I love 40k significantly more than most people, but better FTL travel and numbers take it ten times out of ten.

[Ahriman238]

How are they going to get anywhere without an astronomicon, or without navigational charts? Why will the Republic and/or Seperatists (IE the Sith) not step on them and capture some of their neater things for general use? I love 40k significantly more than most people, but better FTL travel and numbers take it ten times out of ten.

Probably a series of short jumps, which will hamper them a lot.

If not for the whole galaxy-sweeping war I'd say let the Warsies be the invaders and run in horror from the glaaxy the Imperium lives with every day. On the other hand, Space Marine would probably find CIS battle droids hilarious.

[Ted C]

How are they going to get anywhere without an astronomicon, or without navigational charts?

That's a very good point. They'll be able to make short hops like the Tau do, but long hauls will be out of the question.

Of course, warp space around the Star Wars galaxy is likely to be a lot calmer than around the Milky Way, since it won't have as much Chaos influence to generate turbulence.

[Grumman]

How are they going to get anywhere without an astronomicon, or without navigational charts? Why will the Republic and/or Seperatists (IE the Sith) not step on them and capture some of their neater things for general use?

Star Wars' hyperspace is much better behaved than 40k's Warp, so using the Tau's strategy of short FTL hops is going to work better there than in 40k.

Stepping on them is unlikely - what Star Wars thinks of as a capital ship is only an escort vessel by 40k standards, so I don't think anyone's going to go Leeroy Jenkins on an unknown fleet containing squadrons of Star Dreadnoughts. Much better to get them on side without throwing away a fleet or two.

[Borgholio]

What are the weapon yields rated at in 40k? Is a lance equal to a turbolaser, for instance?

[Simon_Jester]

They are, as I understand it, broadly comparable- the really big distinctions between the settings are agility and numbers. Star Wars has vastly greater tactical and strategic agility (faster ships); Warhammer 40k has vastly greater numbers of spacefaring combat units.

Ground combat, honestly I think edge goes to 40k- the Imperial Guard operates at a level of continuous combat experience and do-or-die determination that would be very hard for most Star Wars armed forces to match.

[NecronLord]

How are they going to get anywhere without an astronomicon, or without navigational charts? Why will the Republic and/or Seperatists (IE the Sith) not step on them and capture some of their neater things for general use?

Star Wars' hyperspace is much better behaved than 40k's Warp, so using the Tau's strategy of short FTL hops is going to work better there than in 40k.

Stepping on them is unlikely - what Star Wars thinks of as a capital ship is only an escort vessel by 40k standards, so I don't think anyone's going to go Leeroy Jenkins on an unknown fleet containing squadrons of Star Dreadnoughts. Much better to get them on side without throwing away a fleet or two.

Err, there is at least one book where the IoM opens first contact protocols with a broad-frequency broadcast of every computer virus it knows, I forget where, but these people are not skilled diplomats.

As for numbers, if we grant them equal numbers then strategic concentration of force is a factor. The SW side can bring its entire force to bear on any one part of the IoM it wishes to, before the IoM's communications can be relied upon to even cross a sector.

[Elheru Aran]

The Imperium does tend to run on a "hey just got here, we're the boss of you, now who are you again?" kind of basis... They're kind of deficient in social graces.

In the SW galaxy the Imperium does have to contend with two disadvantages: no Astronomican, as mentioned, and the slow speed of their communications. They may also have issues with technological parity-- their stuff just doesn't operate at the same level, ish. A lasgun may be broadly similar to a blaster, but you can bet your ass the lasgun doesn't use Tibanna gas.

It's like moving overseas and suddenly you find out all your electric devices use the wrong voltage... they may well find themselves in that situation when they try to replenish their supplies locally.

[StarSword]

A lasgun may be broadly similar to a blaster, but you can bet your ass the lasgun doesn't use Tibanna gas.

That particular example's actually an advantage. The lasgun uses a battery that can be recharged by leaving it out in the sun for a couple hours. The blaster uses a battery, too, but you have to charge them from an external power supply. And the lasgun also doesn't have the added logistical problem of supplying spin-sealed Tibanna gas in addition to power packs.

One thing I'm curious about, do we have any numbers on the capabilities of 40k space fighters?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Now that I think about it, most of the IOM's problems would be nullified in 40K. IIRC they have to use the Astronomicon to navigate in the warp because it's so messed up and there are, well, gods running around that like to cause chaos. With them gone, would they even need one? If they do I'd wager it would need to be a lot less powerful than the real deal.

As for the Republic and CIs being able to concentrate forces faster, whilst that is true both factions are embroiled in that little thing called the Clone Wars. Pulling enough ships off the line to deal with this large Imperial fleet (containing, as someone pointed out, whole squadrons of Star Battlecruiser/Dreadnought class vessels) would leave them highly vulnerable to the other side in that war.

However, in strategic terms the SW forces will win, if only because they know how to build their powerful ships and can do it a hell of a lot faster than the IOM could, even if they had supporting Forge Worlds, which they don't. So, initially I would say it favours the IOM, if only because the REpublic and the CIS can't really afford to fight a third, powerful opponent. But every ship, every fighter the IOM lose will be nigh-irreplaceable so eventally they will be ground down.

[NecronLord]

Why would the chaos gods not get through to invade the other galaxy's warp? We've seen that they exist in multiple galaxies in various books (Storm of Iron, prominently).

As for the Republic and CIs being able to concentrate forces faster, whilst that is true both factions are embroiled in that little thing called the Clone Wars. Pulling enough ships off the line to deal with this large Imperial fleet (containing, as someone pointed out, whole squadrons of Star Battlecruiser/Dreadnought class vessels) would leave them highly vulnerable to the other side in that war.

Not for long.

Not for long enough for the Imperium to get its shit sorted out and allow an invasion.

The Clone Wars lasted four years. The Gothic Sector war took ten. The Orphean War, considered by the Imperium to be a shockingly fast necron assault, took four. I repeat, the time it took the Republic (and its secessionist Confederacy) to fight the Clone Wars is the time it took the Imperium to substantively come to the aid of one sector. Nothing, including the shocking blitz-krieg tactics of the Maynarkh Dynasty, which caused the High Lords to personally write off an entire sector and disincorporate it from the Imperium, will prepare them for the strategic speed of the Republic/Empire/Confederacy.

If the wormhole opens at the time of the battle of Geonosis, by the time the Imperium's even finished its deliberations and assembled an invasion force, it's dealing with the Galactic Empire, one we know from RotS ICS was keen to talk up extragalactic threats.

Never mind that if he really feels threatened, Sidious can cancel the Clone Wars. The Galaxy is already united under Sidious' rule, it just doesn't know it yet. And if Sidious is somehow discovered and destroyed, then so is his active sabotage of peace efforts.

And, of course, the longer it takes the IoM to sort itself out for an unparalleled invasion effort, during its own Time of Ending (why is no one mentioning the IoM's own many other wars? ) the stronger the CIS at least, gets, we know that its major strategy in the war was the use of self-replicating droid foundries after all. Its expansion of military power under optimal conditions - let alone if they rejoined the republic at Sidious' command - is exponential.

[Eternal_Freedom]

All good points.

Although, if the Chaos Gods do make it through to the SW galaxy, won't that screw up the Republic/CIS as well rather than just the Imperium?

[NecronLord]

No more than it did Merica, or any of the other pre-Age of Strife human interstellar empires. Without psykers, they have no way in. With rare exceptions, like ascending Doombreed to a demon prince, they've got nothing, and certainly nothing to disrupt social order on a large scale.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I was thinking more in terms of screwing up hyperspace travel the way they screw up warp travel.

[Darksider]

Hyperspace isn't the same as the Warp. They screw up Warp travel because the warp is their realm, and they don't like the puny mortals fucking with it. To affect navigation in the SW galaxy, they would have to manifest the warp into real space via shit like Warp Storms or the Eye. At which point they run in to the problems Necronlord mentioned.

[biostem]

The IoM uses mainly kinetic weapons w/ some energy and flame weapons in ground combat - I wonder how the Jedi and Clone Troopers would fare against that.

[NecronLord]

The IoM uses mainly kinetic weapons w/ some energy and flame weapons in ground combat - I wonder how the Jedi and Clone Troopers would fare against that.

Very very well, as mass space superiority will mean that bolt shells and such things will run very short long before the Jedi/Clones/Droids bother to attack on the ground. As the Republic/Confederacy/Empire will be able to pick as and when it fights every battle.

I mean, hell, in the time it takes an IoM ship to steam in from the edge of the star system where they're normally required to exit the warp, they could send for say, the thousands of ships armada that Grievous led to Coruscant to come in and slaughter the IoM before they can actually visually see one of their planets.

Armies fight very poorly when their logistics can be hit anywhere, at any time, as hard as the enemy pleases, and the enemy has grossly superior reconnaissance assets (see ARC-170 fighters, for instance, a 3-4 man interstellar range recon craft smaller than an IoM starhawk, which are carried, by the late war, aboard seemingly every Republic Attack Cruiser in great numbers) to pinpoint and eliminate their supplies.

Bullets run out quite quickly under those circumstances, and bolter shells are relatively hard to procure in the first instance. If anything, solid munitions are a big liability here.