What is the canon of Doctor Who?

[Enigma]

Is it just the T.V. series considered canon? Is the radio plays also part of canon? What of the books and comics?

[Batman]

I'm not sure there is an official canon but the general consensus seems to be TV only.

[Broomstick]

For sure the TV series and 1996 movies. There are some shorts that are likewise considered cannon, including those surrounding the 50th anniversary. One of them, the one with Paul McGann which is cannon references the Big Finish audio programs of his Doctor which implies they're cannon to some degree. There is an animated story featuring the 10th Doctor that is probably cannon.

The Cushing movies are not considered cannon. The EU books are not considered cannon until their plots/storylines are incorporated into the TV show. Not entirely sure about the comics.

[Enigma]

I just read somewhere that there isn't a canon policy set by the BBC. While they are the primary owner of the DWU, they do not have ownership of everything in it.

Would it be easier to say that anything licensed or produced by the BBC is canon?

Oh and Broomstick? "Canon" not "cannon". By your definition, nothing of DW can be cannon since it isn't a metal tube used to fire balls of stone or iron. Heehee.

[Batman]

While I'm relieved I'm not the one who had to bring up the canon/cannon issue, um-laser cannon, turbolaser cannon, ion cannon, plasma cannon, transform cannon...
I think the 'cannon' definition of 'fires bigass physical projectiles by way of chemical explosives' definition of cannon went the way of the Dodo a long time ago at least for SciFi.

[Crazedwraith]

holy mindless pedantry batman!

And every bit of fiction ever is canon to Doctor Who. Except Noddy. Props to evilsoup for introducing me to that blog. Which argues that there is no canon for Doctor Who at all. It's not something the producers even think about.

Still effectively yes its the TVshow. Though writers will bring in anything else from any where else they want and reference in their episodes. The Eighth Doctor's regeneration episode referenced all his audio series companions for ecample

[Batman]

Me. Being mindlessly pedantric. I'm sorry, did you read my username?

And call me silly but wouldn't anything imported into the TV series be part of TV series canon?

[Tribble]

Well, it makes sense that everything counts within the context of the show. You have time travel, you have parallel universes, you have paradoxes, you have multiple timelines occurring in the same universe without causing a paradox or a timeloop, you have fixed points, unfixed points, time locks, the list goes on and on...

I think the Doctor sums up the canon best: it's a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey whimey... stuff.

[mr friendly guy]

I asked this of BBC a few years back and they gave a vague answer that its what you want it to be. In other words like Russell T Davies answer.

Now just because you have time travel, doesn't necessarily preclude things from being canon, the same way a historical figure existed and still performed actions even though they are now dead. Events happened, but where undone. That however still makes a particular story useful for assessing technology for example (unless the story specifically involved losing such technology). So for example if the TARDIS did such and such a feat in a story which a future story rendered did not happen, its still reasonable to assume the TARDIS can still perform that action.

In any event its still relatively easy to reconcile some contradictions like the several different methods which Atlantis was destroyed - ALTERNATE TIMELINE FOR THE WIN. Yeah the Doctor just arrived in an alternative timeline for one of these stories (not sure which one). The events are canon in that other timeline.

[Eternal_Freedom]

My concept of it is rather like the old SW system - everything is canon but the TV series/1996 film/associated shorts are top dog. Stuff in books etc still "happened" unless contradicted, directly or otherwise by the TV series.

And since the new series is a continuation rather than a reboot, the new series and the old series are equal in terms of canon.

[NecronLord]

My concept of it is rather like the old SW system - everything is canon but the TV series/1996 film/associated shorts are top dog. Stuff in books etc still "happened" unless contradicted, directly or otherwise by the TV series.

And since the new series is a continuation rather than a reboot, the new series and the old series are equal in terms of canon.

Even that is too strong. There is no canon at all.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hence why I said it was "my concept."

[Purple]

My concept of it is rather like the old SW system - everything is canon but the TV series/1996 film/associated shorts are top dog. Stuff in books etc still "happened" unless contradicted, directly or otherwise by the TV series.

And since the new series is a continuation rather than a reboot, the new series and the old series are equal in terms of canon.

How can you be sure that if something is contradicted, even directly in the TV series it's the series actually saying it did not happen as opposed to the series saying that it might have not happened or that it might have happened but one of the myriads of time travel situations undid it?

[Ahriman238]

Everything is canon. Nothing is true.

Oh, wait, that's a different long-running British SF series.

Seriously though, they occasionally can't keep their history consistent for a single episode, I'm pretty sure their canon policy is something like "Don't worry too much about it, bro."

[Eternal_Freedom]

My concept of it is rather like the old SW system - everything is canon but the TV series/1996 film/associated shorts are top dog. Stuff in books etc still "happened" unless contradicted, directly or otherwise by the TV series.

And since the new series is a continuation rather than a reboot, the new series and the old series are equal in terms of canon.

How can you be sure that if something is contradicted, even directly in the TV series it's the series actually saying it did not happen as opposed to the series saying that it might have not happened or that it might have happened but one of the myriads of time travel situations undid it?

Perhaps a better way to explain this is as a set of filters. If I want to decide (for my own curiosity's sake, I would like to stress that this is purely my own internal system) then I ask a few questions.

1. Is it depicted in an episode/webisode/etc of the classic or new TV series?
2. If not, is it mentioned in an episode of same?
3. If not, is it depicted in a book?
4. If not, is it mentioned in a book?

Generally, the fewer "no's" I get as answers, the more likely it is that that event "really happened." For things in the books, there's an extra question I ask, "Is this account at odds with something seen/mentioned in the TV series?" If the answer is yes, I will tend to adopt the TV version of events as what "really happened."

Of course, there aren't many apparent contradictions I know of that don't have a reasonable explanation that is covered in a book, for example Gallifrey being destroyed during the 8th Doctor books was a possible future or somesuch.

[Purple]

My concept of it is rather like the old SW system - everything is canon but the TV series/1996 film/associated shorts are top dog. Stuff in books etc still "happened" unless contradicted, directly or otherwise by the TV series.

And since the new series is a continuation rather than a reboot, the new series and the old series are equal in terms of canon.

How can you be sure that if something is contradicted, even directly in the TV series it's the series actually saying it did not happen as opposed to the series saying that it might have not happened or that it might have happened but one of the myriads of time travel situations undid it?

Perhaps a better way to explain this is as a set of filters. If I want to decide (for my own curiosity's sake, I would like to stress that this is purely my own internal system) then I ask a few questions.

1. Is it depicted in an episode/webisode/etc of the classic or new TV series?
2. If not, is it mentioned in an episode of same?
3. If not, is it depicted in a book?
4. If not, is it mentioned in a book?

Generally, the fewer "no's" I get as answers, the more likely it is that that event "really happened." For things in the books, there's an extra question I ask, "Is this account at odds with something seen/mentioned in the TV series?" If the answer is yes, I will tend to adopt the TV version of events as what "really happened."

Of course, there aren't many apparent contradictions I know of that don't have a reasonable explanation that is covered in a book, for example Gallifrey being destroyed during the 8th Doctor books was a possible future or somesuch.

You missed the point of what I was trying to say.

Basically, how can you be sure that something has not happened as opposed to it having happened but than being undone by some time traveling that happened in between than and the episode that contradicts it. I would always lean toward the later unless it's specifically mentioned that it's a fixed point or some such.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If it's been undone then as far as the greater universe is concerned it didn't happen.

It's a good point, but ultimately if it isn't in the TV series I'm fairly uninterested.

[StarSword]

While I'm relieved I'm not the one who had to bring up the canon/cannon issue, um-laser cannon, turbolaser cannon, ion cannon, plasma cannon, transform cannon...
I think the 'cannon' definition of 'fires bigass physical projectiles by way of chemical explosives' definition of cannon went the way of the Dodo a long time ago at least for SciFi.

I always go with "A canon is a policy on what is official in a body of fiction. A cannon is a large gun."

[jwl]

[Crazedwraith]

Is there a point behind the image spam?

[jwl]

Is there a point behind the image spam?

The first image shows the Blathereen (or rather the Slitheen-Blathereen), originally appearing in the book "The Monsters Inside".
Next show the Men in Black, originally appearing in the animation "Dreamland".
Next shows the Graske, originally appearing in the game "Attack of the Graske".
Next shows the oncoming storm, with the doctor originally being called that in the book "Love and War".
Next shows the Eighth Doctor reciting his companions from the Big Finish Audio Adventures.

[Crazedwraith]

And? So? Therefore? What is your point?

These are things from non-TV things that ended up TV episodes. Great. Do you think that means all the secondary things are canon? or not?

Cos as people have said. There is no canon the writers pull in anything they want from any where. That doesn't say much about canon.

[jwl]

And? So? Therefore? What is your point?

These are things from non-TV things that ended up TV episodes. Great. Do you think that means all the secondary things are canon? or not?

Cos as people have said. There is no canon the writers pull in anything they want from any where. That doesn't say much about canon.

If two media are mutally referencing each other that's a good indication that they are in the same continuity (and I assume I don't need to prove to you those other media also reference the TV shows).
As for doctor who not having a canon, how about this then:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressr ... _who.shtml

Players will encounter new and original monsters, in stories which form part of the overall Doctor Who canon.

The Adventure Games also shares mutual references with the TV show via Asylum of the Daleks.

[mr friendly guy]

There is a canon, its just that they didn't define it very specific. But generally I would consider a secondary source being referenced by a primary one as closer to canon. For example the events of the Apocalypse element are referenced in the DW annual. So it would most probably be ranked higher than an audio which wasn't referenced.