Doctor Who S34E12: "Death In Heaven" Spoilers

[Crazedwraith]

Starting in 15. And a full hour in length.

I thought I'd get this up ahead of time this week. And why not a poll as well? Don't vote until you've seen it!

[Crazedwraith]

Well that was just bad. The Doctor was completely passive thorough out. They pulled more 'clara is the doctor' shit to the extent they alter the fricking title sequence pointlessly. We have no more information on Missy than we did at the end of last week. And they vapourised her at the end. Which will result in more bullshit the next time they want to bring the Master back.

I'm not a classic Who either, so the excessive pandering the Brigadier was not a hit with me.

[NecronLord]

Zany but I liked it.

The Master's fake information about Gallifrey was amusing.

[DaveJB]

Fumbled a bit toward the end - the kid's "resurrection" opens up a huge can of worms, and are we to assume that a Cyber-ized Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart is now roaming the world righting wrongs wherever he sees them? - but otherwise a pretty solid effort. If nothing else, it was certainly the best NuWho Master story... although considering the competition, that wasn't exactly a difficult task.

Looking back on this series as a whole, despite the major lows that were Kill the Moon and In the Forest of the Night (and even those don't come close to the NuWho's lowest ebb, Fear Her, which shows you what a monument to utter, epic failure that story still is eight years later) it was actually pretty consistently good, and Capaldi really elevates the show by his very presence. The main trouble was with the supporting characters; Clara felt like a hangover from Matt Smith's era, and became incredibly preachy and arrogant to boot, while Danny wasn't as annoying, but with the possible exception of this two-parter didn't come close to fulfilling the potential he looked to have early on.

[Omeros]

And they vapourised her at the end. Which will result in more bullshit the next time they want to bring the Master back.

It looked like a transmat effect to me, rather than Missy being vapourised. but where would the Doctor transmat her to?

[Crazedwraith]

And they vapourised her at the end. Which will result in more bullshit the next time they want to bring the Master back.

It looked like a transmat effect to me, rather than Missy being vapourised. but where would the Doctor transmat her to?

It was supposed to be the Brigadier-Bot shooting her. Though yes it turning out to be a transmat instead is the easiest way out of the death what with the cybermen being her creations after all.

[Bedlam]

After some thought I think I quite liked it.

The brigadier love was a bit over the top (and I am an original series fan) the picture in the war room was tasteless, I saw his later use come from that, they had to remind new viewers who he was.

Alas poor Osgood, I loved her in her fangirl glory (Not companion material but a one off Christmas special might have worked), I'm still flip flopping between her death chillingly showing how bananas the Mistress was and just trying to tug on my heart strings. The guards in that scene could have been offed much better, have them get zapped a few seconds earlier when she seems to be still bound or find out she's already drugged / gassed them or something rather than just have then standing there like statues.

I generally liked the cyberdanny bits, the soldier promise genuinely touched me given it comes a day before remembrance Sunday.

I laughed at the AI's squeeing and the Mistresses reaction to it.

[Joun_Lord]

I didn't like it. They had the Master calling herself the Doctor's girlfriend and really didn't do anything with it. Danny was killed off then killed off again meaning that Orson is probably no longer existing (making me wonder how baby-Doc got Dan the Soldier Man) unless Santa can fix it. They killed Osgood and her cool bowtie just because. They had all the world's dead alive again even if Cyberized and then killed them off. There is apparently a Tardis and who knows what other Time Lord tech floating about Earth. What happened to the Brig? Did he kersplode too or did he head off into space to have an adventure?

Now the Cybermen really are like Iron Man, able to even fly. Clara is has gone full on Mary Sue. The Doctor just didn't do diddly this episode.

Capaldi is a great Doctor......if he would be given something to work with. He's way too freaking passive most of the time, two of his adventures this season would have solved themselves if he never showed up. Its barely Doctor Who with Clara onboard, its the Adventures of Clara Oswald with her sidekick the Doctor.

I'm going to be glad when she is gone.

[Crazedwraith]

^ Hear Hear.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It was...acceptable.

The fact that this was, again, an entire story about Clara is, I dunno, I'm not even annoyed about it anymore, it's more a feeling of "ok, we know she's going to be super-awesome-action-girl, let's just grin and bare it, she'll be gone soon enough and enjoy Capaldi's acting along the way."

The robo-Brig was kinda meh. Right up until Clara said Kate was talking about her father I was expecting it to be Osgood (somehow) or Danny that somehow survived...or any of the UNIT soldiers we've seen die over the years.

[Crazedwraith]

I expected the 'he just wanted you to salute him' thing to come back with the Doctor saluting Danny.

[Parallax]

That was, for the most part, mediocre with flashes of greatness mixed in.
The Doctor was far too passive, as someone has already noted, and essentially did nothing throughout the story.
What about the rest of the Doctor's previous companions who have died on Earth? Victoria Waterfield? Sarah Jane? Harry Sullivan? etc. Did they all get cyberised as well? Did they pull a Brigadier and there's now a squad of justice serving Cybermen zooming about? How far back did Missy go? Is there now an AdricBot hanging about being useless?

Keeping the BrigBot around is a poor move, and I feel a bit disrespectful to the character of the Brigadier. If they had the BrigBot appear and, over riding cyber control, save Katie and help out to the point where he/it blasts Missy ... and then shuts down (moving on) with the last act being he and the Doctor saluting each other. Yeah, that would have been better.
That and any sort of Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart not having the trademark voice and moustache is just PLAIN WRONG.

Has the show forgotten about the TARDIS door open finger clicking thing? I thought it'd been passed over in the last episode because it was a dream/hallucination but it'd have been really handy in this ep when the Doctor was doing his free-fall thing.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What about the rest of the Doctor's previous companions who have died on Earth? Victoria Waterfield? Sarah Jane? Harry Sullivan? etc. Did they all get cyberised as well? Did they pull a Brigadier and there's now a squad of justice serving Cybermen zooming about? How far back did Missy go? Is there now an AdricBot hanging about being useless?

Honestly, this seems to be a major failing of all nuWho. They'll have an interesting concept, but they don't think of all the consequences based on everything in Who's history. Then again, given the sheer volume of history that is (mostly) understandable. But not for major shit like "everyone who is buried on Earth is now a Cyberman. Presumably that includes everyone who died during the Cyberman invasions in the past, like "The Invasion" or "the Next Doctor." That a nice bit of irony I'll grant you.

[SpottedKitty]

But not for major shit like "everyone who is buried on Earth is now a Cyberman.

I'll check it in tomorrow night's repeat, but isn't there a line during the somewhat ick-inducing-if-you-think-about-it "raining on the graveyards" computer animation about only a small number of cyber-conversions happening in each graveyard?

"Someone has to say it" dept. — the Doctor's face when he realises who the President is? I giggled, loud and long.

[DaveJB]

What about the rest of the Doctor's previous companions who have died on Earth? Victoria Waterfield? Sarah Jane? Harry Sullivan?

I'm pretty sure that Sarah Jane's still meant to be alive, despite Elisabeth Sladen's death. Probably the same with Harry in fact, since I believe Ian Marter would only be in his 60s if he were still alive. As for Victoria, she was born in the 19th Century, she didn't die there; she was apparently dropped off in 1960s Earth, so she may still be alive too.

In fact, the only two we know for certain are dead at the time of this episode's setting and who are likely to still have enough left of their bodies to Cyber-ize (which may rule out Jamie, since he likely died in the late 18th century) are Amy and Rory. There's a nice thought...

[Eternal_Freedom]

But not for major shit like "everyone who is buried on Earth is now a Cyberman.

I'll check it in tomorrow night's repeat, but isn't there a line during the somewhat ick-inducing-if-you-think-about-it "raining on the graveyards" computer animation about only a small number of cyber-conversions happening in each graveyard?

Only a small number happening at once. It was apparently a gradual process. "Hatching" as the Doctor described it.

[Enigma]

I waited until this episode aired before I watched DW and DIH. Overall it is ok. As a season finale, I found it weak. In the end, both lied to each other but you could tell that they knew. Missy most likely been transmatted but not the same way she used to enter the nethersphere.

Finally, it is an interesting way to introduce Nick Frost to the special.

[The Romulan Republic]

Fuck the Master for killing Osgood (and who knows how many others).

Despite this episode's flaws I nearly cried when the Doctor saluted the Brigadier despite having watched very little of the old series.

But it was inconsistent to say the least for the Doctor to refuse to lead the Cyberman army because its evil/too much power (a position I agree with) but give it to Danny to take it on a suicide mission, I hate the tendency in some of the media to glorify suicide/suicide attacks (unless its Muslim extremists doing it) and Danny staying dead was another contrived, manipulative would-be tear jerker thanks to Moffat. Its like Amy and Rory leaving all over again. Moffat's writing is offensive and tired and I want a new head writer.

As for what's coming next, I have some thoughts. First of all, I suspect the Doctor will find Gallifrey in the Christmas special. Secondly, anyone who thinks the Master is dead for good is an idiot or isn't familiar with this series. Third, the next Doctor probably will be female. I'm calling it now. That Doctor as a queen bit combined with the Master/Missy plot reeks of foreshadowing.

[Joun_Lord]

Third, the next Doctor probably will be female. I'm calling it now. That Doctor as a queen bit combined with the Master/Missy plot reeks of foreshadowing.

I can see what you are saying. With all the calls of the Doc being changed from a white male this could have been testing the waters to see the reactions of making a fairly important character a woman. If the Missy = Master thing doesn't have fanboys raging they can probably try to make a lady Doc and call back to this to be like "see its happened before" if they care enough to use canon to justify it.

Personally I wouldn't be against it other then my inner fanboy crying out "you changed it, now it sucks!". My only problem with it is the psychological problems that would be incurred on the Doctor and the fact it would be too close to parody as the Master is now a woman already is. For people with gender identity disorder their body is pretty alien, I've talked to people who speak about the hell of being in a body that they don't feel is correct and they grew up in those bodies and theoretically had time to grow used to them. Someone who has spent 20 years as one sex suddenly changing to another would be impossibly messed up to them, someone who spent over a thousand years might be far worse.

Of course with the plasticity of Time Lord forms they may not be effected by such drastic changes anymore then they are effected by drastic age changes. A human who suddenly goes from a 20 something pretty boy to a grey haired old man would probably take a pretty extreme hit to their mind, while the Doctor seems fine with it after getting over his post regeneration shenanigans.

The parody aspect I worry about is the fact they already had a female Doctor........in the Mr Bean parody episode. And Lady Doc got with the Master, sort of an reverse version of the Missy trying to be the Doctors girlyfriend. With the Doctor being a female for realsies I think they would probably play it for laughs. "Oh no, the Doctor is a silly gurl meow, so awkward!!!!!" Or for titillation, I'm sure less fanboys would complain about the lady Doc if she was young and hot and flirting with an equally young and hot companion. Not me of course, I'm much too mature for that, much too mature. I swear.

And if they are going to have a female Doctor, it should be because a female actress is the best qualified for the role just the same as if another white guy was best for the role or a actor of "darker complexion" (Idris Elba I think could make a good Doctor but not because of his skin color but because he's a damn good actor). Not check a PC box to have a female actress or POC actor and work their way back from their, it would make for a poorly written Doctor who'd just be the "Female Doctor" or "Black Doctor" rather then just the Doctor who happens to be female or black.

[SpottedKitty]

Fuck the Master for killing Osgood (and who knows how many others).

I can't help remembering UNIT has an extra Osgood wandering around (as seen in "The Day Of The Doctor". Which one got zapped? Come to think of it, how long did it take for them to sort out which was who?

[mr friendly guy]

Ok episode I guess. I liked the twist about how the Master gave the Doctor the option of leading the Cyber army. At this point it wasn't so much about revenge in the usual sense, but proving that the Doctor is more like the Master than he admits. Which leads me to the next point. If leading the Cybermen army is wrong for the Doctor to do it because of too much power wah wah, they really need to point out the War Doctor willing to wield the Moment and the Time Lords existing for so long who had much more power.

I do however like how the Doctor was willing to kill the Master. I mean someone should do a death count of how many people this guy/girl has killed. Hint look at the last episode of "Logopolis". That being said I didn't find the new UNIT characters as compelling as the old ones, so frankly it didn't bother me much from an "out universe" perspective that he got rid of these characters.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I waited until this episode aired before I watched DW and DIH.

Yeah, that's what I did- no waiting for a week to see what happens

Was I the only one who didn't give a shit about the whole Clara/Danny love thing? Certainly when she was going batshit crazy and throwing TARDIS keys into the lava I wanted the doctor to toss her in after them and get it over with, the whole simulation bit notwithstanding

The Cybermen voices were a bit meh compared to those from the David Tennant doctor's time. I can sort of understand why they'd make the Cybermen fly since when they faced the Daleks the lack of flight was a critical disadvantage, BUT at the same time they immediately became copies of Iron Man War Machine. And if they were really so intent on destroying the plane they'd have gone after the engines or something similarly critical to staying in the air.

[Bedlam]

And if they were really so intent on destroying the plane they'd have gone after the engines or something similarly critical to staying in the air.

That would make logical sense, however, as they were under the command of Missy, I could see her programming them to make the destruction as drawn out as possible just for kicks.

[FaxModem1]

Also, she was on board, and so was the Doctor. She seemed to be wanting for him to survive, or at least have a chance of it. Though, if her plan was to kill him by throwing him out of a plane, who was she going to give the army to?

[Batman]

Missy was self-admittedly nuts, and she has known the Doctor for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if she counted on him summoning the TARDIS to save himself and just threw him out of the plane for shits and giggles.

Was dubious at the beginning but the episode grew on me, even if nuts Missy kept getting on my nerves throughout, and hey, thanks for bringing back Osgood (I didn't even remember respirator girl had a name) just to pointlessly kill her off.
I only know the Brigadier by nuWho references but I too was touched by the Doctor saluting him at the end.

And who the hell wears red shoes with a black suit?