Deahbattle Vader vs Doctor Doom

[Korgeta]

The youtube gaming channel screwattack has a branch known as Deathbattle where various media characters are researched and fight to the death. They have done a few in the past featuring star wars:

Bobba Fett vs Samus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcZCZ8ZNHMc
Luke sky walker vs Harry Potter https://www.youtube.com/wa ... RLuPHvF6Fo

And finally, Vader vs Doom, though at this stage they opened up with a small preview into vader's background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpJVE7xkN5I


Should be fun but disappointed their making it 2D as opposed to the much impressive 3D models like fett vs samus, either way, time to put your money on the odds gents and gals!

[mr friendly guy]

I love their Superman vs Goku and their Pokemon battles. I wish they would do Zerg vs Tyrannids.

[Q99]

I'd think this one would be a very one-sided battle, Doom's so powerful and varied.

[Elheru Aran]

I'd think this one would be a very one-sided battle, Doom's so powerful and varied.

But can he withstand a Force choke?

That's what this match-up comes down to. Can Doom's magic and technology counter Vader's brute strength and Force power? Too unpredictable.

[Adam Reynolds]

I'd think this one would be a very one-sided battle, Doom's so powerful and varied.

But can he withstand a Force choke?

That's what this match-up comes down to. Can Doom's magic and technology counter Vader's brute strength and Force power? Too unpredictable.

This is the fundamental problem with these debates. It all depends on who has the advantage of surprise and whether each power can affect the other person effectively.

It's like the previous recent scenario which pitted Vader against Batman. The power level of each character is so carried that there is little way to determine a clear winner. Batman after all has taken on most of the DC heroes and come out victorious without any powers of his own. By that metric Vader should lose, but if we consider the likelihood that Vader could use precog against Batman, Vader would likely win. As he would if Batman was incapable of preparing.

It used to be that most on these forums argued that Jedi/Sith could win against almost anyone by some combination of Force choke/Force rupture blood vessels in target brain. Also throw in precog for good measure*.
* I personally have argued the precog element heavily. It really depends on what assumptions you make.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well the normal SDN standard is that both side's powers work on each other. So nobody can say 'force choke can't work because no force in Marvel'. That's pointless.

But that does get into problems with purely magical powers like this, when its not just possible but reasonable that either sides power might be able to 100% block the other. But we should still look for evidence, such as, has Dr Doom blocked other telekinetic powers before? If he has then its a lot more reasonable to assume he can prevent his windpipe from being crushed. Also does he even need to breath?

Advantages based purely on surprise though don't make sense, Vader having at least some precognizant advantage after all. And Doctor Doom could just ask someone for information about this 'Darth Vader' guy, we've assumed that before as a matter of a fact for dbates a decade past. We've never had indications in SW that Jedi-Sith combat powers are secretive, so logical that any enemy could find out the basics. In general I feel such ideas are dumb anyway, anyone existing in magical universes like Marvel or Star Wars ought to have a pretty damn open and prepared mind, and a lot of ideas floating around inside their brain. If they are a moron its hard to see how they'd get very far. That's not saying they have to be good at combat, but just not completely close minded.

And frankly, evidence taken purely from crossover comics should be ignored. Wong, when he was around, argued about that no small bit, and so did many others in the past. Crossover comics are predicated on the idea that both factions are equal because anything else makes for bad or very short story. They are constantly in contradiction with other canon for the characters. Ignoring context is just dumb and I personally think contrary to the idea of the site and forum. Examples from non cross overs should be given precedent. That doesn't meant you can't cite crossovers, just that they must be examined in context, and against other factors. All the more so since as far as I'm aware Star Wars has never had any crossover comics.

The net effect will probably only be to the advantage of non Star Wars factions anyway, so does anyone really object to this sort of thinking? The jedi-sith rank alongside Death Stars in galatic power somehow, so its probably for the best we don't have people whom can be beat by the Punisher in crossovers being strictly compared against them. Doesn't mean fun anyway and I think I have a reputation as a fun murder, so if I think is un fun that might be a bad sign. Or i;m just full of myself even in this, but hell if I care. I'd rather make people think about why I'm wrong then uncritically agree.

Precognition meanwhile you only means something can't be a complete and utter surprise. But would having a warning like 'landmine' really help after you already walked into a minefield? Maybe it stops you from being killed, but doesn't help you get out of it?

In Star Wars the canon is 100% that the force cannot tell you the future in detail. Before and after Disney it was like that. That's good for writing and story, so no surprise. It is more like a horoscope then a punch for punch prediction. Even in combat when it supposedly makes Jedi better pilots we never see indications that it lets them avoid all bad situations, but it improves intuition. It improves survivability more then it improves kill power.

Can't really say much about Doctor Doom personally though. Just not my thing.

[Simon_Jester]

Doctor Doom is also a disciplined and physically adept man. I would not assume that grabbing him by the neck and squeezing his windpipe is enough to make him cease to be a threat- he might very well still be able to draw and fire a weapon.

Since "Force choke" doesn't seem to be an instant-kill (or at least usually isn't portrayed as such), I don't think it can be used as an automatic win button.

[SpottedKitty]

Doctor Doom is also a disciplined and physically adept man. I would not assume that grabbing him by the neck and squeezing his windpipe is enough to make him cease to be a threat- he might very well still be able to draw and fire a weapon.

Would he even need to do that? I haven't read much recent Marvel stuff, but I'm sure I remember Doom's armour has at least some "pointy-shooty" type weapons built into the gauntlets. I think the general principle is, if you think you've completely disarmed Doom, then you missed some hidden goodies.

[biostem]

It also matters which incarnation of Vader we're talking about here - movie-Vader is a lot less powerful than, say, his incarnation in various video games or comics.

I'm also going to assume that neither person can call in reinforcements - I mean, Vader could potentially call in some Stormtroopers or even spacecraft, while Doom has his Doombots and Latverian army, (unless they are one and the same).

Are there any instances where Doom has been able to block his mind from being probed/read? If he is able to figure out that Vader can foresee his attacks & movements, then Doom may wisen up and start steeling himself against being predicted in that way.

[SpottedKitty]

I mean, Vader could potentially call in some Stormtroopers or even spacecraft,

I just got a fun mental image of Doom noticing a huge cheese wedge of a spaceship coming over the horizon, then suddenly Vader grabs him with the Force, tosses him as high as he can, and calls, "PULL!"

[Balrog]

Precognition meanwhile you only means something can't be a complete and utter surprise. But would having a warning like 'landmine' really help after you already walked into a minefield? Maybe it stops you from being killed, but doesn't help you get out of it?

Funny enough this exact same thing came up in the old canon at least a couple of times, although from what I recall both involving Anakin during the Clone Wars: early in the war on Jabiim he wandered into a minefield without sensing it at first but once he realized he was able to locate the mines and detonate them remotely; the second time he sensed the minefield before walking into it and again remotely detonated the mines.

In Star Wars the canon is 100% that the force cannot tell you the future in detail. Before and after Disney it was like that. That's good for writing and story, so no surprise. It is more like a horoscope then a punch for punch prediction. Even in combat when it supposedly makes Jedi better pilots we never see indications that it lets them avoid all bad situations, but it improves intuition. It improves survivability more then it improves kill power.

Well, maybe if you're just a wet-behind-the-ears Knight...

When Vader got within weapons range of the vultures, the entire swarm broke in all directions and opened fire on him. Enmeshed in the Force, he intuitively calculated angles, velocities, and vectors, his interceptor rising, falling, spinning, wheeling, navigating the firestorm of blasterfire where the margin of error was millimeters. He didn't return fire. His weapon was not blasters. Instead, he fixed on the leading vulture droids and reached out with the Force. The situation hasn't really come up yet in the new canon, but in Lords of the Sith Vader was immediately able to sense hidden explosives before actually coming upon them.

With an effort of will and a slight gesture, he tore open the belly compartment of three vultures. The tiny, explosive buzz droids they held poured out into space. Many of the trailing vulture droids, unable to dodge, collided with the scattered buzz droids, and explosions turned dozens of vulture droids and buzz droids into debris.

Vader took hold of another vulture droid's belly and tore it open, then another. Clouds of buzz droids filled space with countless small explosions, wreaking havoc on the vulture droid swarm. Vader flew through and past them, still dodging blasterfire. He wheeled hard about and pursued them as the surviving vulture droids - perhaps only a score - made their way toward the Perilous.

[Korgeta]

I love their Superman vs Goku and their Pokemon battles. I wish they would do Zerg vs Tyrannids.

Superman vs Goku was one of their best battles, heck its by far the most popular, I don't think even a theoretical federation vs galactic empire death battle would match the view count of that (though snake vs splinter cell should top all views because it was one hell of a fight!)

Saying that Deathbattle shows how quickly its source material can become dated, boba fett Expanded universe comics non canon, whereas samus feats have only increased, and a few months after goku vs superman goku now has a whole new transformation that contradicts the whole power scale of his development etc, or even gloss over some details like fail to mention superman was mind controlled by a teenage vampire servant girl.

I am not making that up.

It's entertainment at end of day, but I hope to some extent they could explain the logic of vader's force feats or how it works in detail, but right now vader's biggest disadvantage is Doom has a near fail safe for almost every single situation. He was once teleported to the other side of the planet by a being he had to meet unplanned (comic name escapes me but it was recent and it was all about him exploiting other characters so he can get his wish on reed) but has a instant GPS monitor to update him. Doom as far as I'm aware has a emergency plan in place of threats he had no intention of meeting but meets them still, compared to batman who needs preptime to who he will meet and then withdraw to make adhustments when a new situation arises, Doom doesn't. What will matter is if Doom had faced anything similar to vader's techniques. If Doom hasn't then vader has a chance.

And here's Doom's short profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d621hWp88d0

Main battle next week DUNDUNDUN!

[Vain]

Let me preface this by saying that I love Darth Vader. I wanted to be him when I was a kid, and I still think he is the best part of the OT, which makes him the best part of Star Wars, period, and one of my favorite pop culture characters of all time. That having been said...

But that does get into problems with purely magical powers like this, when its not just possible but reasonable that either sides power might be able to 100% block the other. But we should still look for evidence, such as, has Dr Doom blocked other telekinetic powers before? If he has then its a lot more reasonable to assume he can prevent his windpipe from being crushed. Also does he even need to breath?

Despite not having any technical 'powers', Doctor Doom is the second best comic book super scientist on 616 Marvel Earth (after Reed Richards) and the second best comic book sorcerer (after Dr. Strange), which results in a depth and breadth of abilities and feats which make him a threat to cosmic beings like Thanos, Galactus and the Beyonder. His force field has been shown to block magical, telekinetic and trans-dimensional effects, although not the Force in particular. He does need to breathe, in theory, but it would be completely in character for him to whip out a spell or technological widget that oxygenated his blood for him if his breathing or circulation were disrupted. Even without the force field, his techno-magical power armor has been shown to protect him from extremely high powered energy and reality-warping attacks, such as Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet. He has multiple, short notice technological and magical methods of time travel, has drained, stolen or redirected the powers of multiple godlike cosmic beings, and is a meticulous planner who always has a contingency in place.

Doctor Doom is the sort of being who, in the event that he was over-matched, is capable of instantly traveling through time and space to escape the situation, divining Darth Vader's location as an infant, and sending a cadre of summoned demons to murder him in his cradle. However, that would be incredibly out of character for him. Doom's weaknesses are that he is honorable and arrogant, and he prefers to beat his enemies strength for strength. Despite having a multitude of attack spells, energy and super-science weapons, Doom still carries a Mauser C96 for dealing with enemies for whom firearms would result in a more even match. I think it's entirely likely that, upon meeting Darth Vader, he would produce some sort of melee weapon of his own (perhaps even an energy sword!) and attempt to duel the Dark Lord of Sith in order to prove that he is the better man. I suspect that his armor alone would be enough to give him the edge in that fight, but in the event that it wasn't, he is likely to escalate with increasingly potent spells or weapons until Vader is defeated. I simply don't see a way for Darth Vader to win this one. He doesn't bring anything to the table that Doctor Doom hasn't encountered multiple times in his decades of comic book combat.

Of course, Von Doom was once defeated by a teenager whose power is that she can talk to squirrels. YMMV.

[Q99]

Time travel takes a *bit* more effort than that, and Doom has lost before, but yea, he has contingencies.

Notably, it takes about all of the Fantastic Four to take him on.

But can he withstand a Force choke?

That's what this match-up comes down to. Can Doom's magic and technology counter Vader's brute strength and Force power? Too unpredictable.

Pretty easily, I'd say. In the time it'd take to choke Doom.... through armor, btw... Doom could do so much in return.

[Balrog]

But can he withstand a Force choke?

That's what this match-up comes down to. Can Doom's magic and technology counter Vader's brute strength and Force power? Too unpredictable.

Pretty easily, I'd say. In the time it'd take to choke Doom.... through armor, btw... Doom could do so much in return.

Vader isn't only limited to simply choking him out though.

But it was the Twi'lek prefect, standing not a meter from the Dark Lord, who unexpectedly gasped and brought his hands to his chest as if he had just taken a spear to the heart. Phoca Soot's lekku shot straight out from the sides of his head as if he were being electrocuted, and he collapsed to his knees in obvious agony, his breath caught in his throat and blood vessels in his head-tails beginning to rupture. His eyes glazed over and his red skin began to pale; then his arms flew back from his chest as if in an act of desperate supplication, and he tipped backward, the left side of his head slamming hard against the blood-slicked floor.

[Vain]

Time travel takes a *bit* more effort than that, and Doom has lost before, but yea, he has contingencies.

See above for easy time travel. He's also shown time travel spells, time travel grenades, and numerous other technological time machines, large and small. I don't argue the point that Doom can be defeated. I even pointed out that he lost to a swarm of squirrels. There's usually some goofy plot device to explain it away (it wasn't Doom, it was actually a Doombot, or a clone, or a magical illusion, or an alternate Doom from another dimension, etc. etc.). The fact remains that in more than fifty years of comics, there are plenty of low end showings from Doctor Doom. There are also plenty of high end showings, ridiculously out of the league of someone like Darth Vader. Doom's force field protects him from magic, hostile teleportation and telekinesis among many other things. I don't see any reason why the Force wouldn't be blocked as well. Does anyone have an argument there? I think it's more likely that he just wouldn't feel threatened enough to bother to turn the field on, and get himself in trouble that way. That would be completely in character for him, but I don't think even that would be an instant loss, given all of the panic buttons he has at his disposal. On the flip side, even with his Force precognition, can Darth Vader defend himself against energy blasts that can KO the Hulk? What about being trapped in the Crimson Bands? Or, I can come up with a number of scans of Doom defeating someone with magical or technological lightning, which we have some evidence might work on Vader. I don't think there's any need to get into the really absurd or high end stuff, like shrink rays or armies of Cosmic powered Doombots.

[Irbis]

He doesn't bring anything to the table that Doctor Doom hasn't encountered multiple times in his decades of comic book combat.

And yet, somehow, in all these decades of combat, he lost. Every single time. He is still rules of small country in ass end of nowhere, beaten by dozens of heroes and groups that would never touch Vader. Not just squirrels, as that can be chalked as comedic factors, but serious opponents of very low power scale.

When you think about it, what Fantastic Four, for example, has that Vader doesn't? Ability to conjure Deus Ex Machina by Reed? Well, Vader might not be a scientist, but SW technology is far more advanced and he - as a child - played with and constructed robots far smarter than Doombots. For all we know, all of Doom's technological achievements are Tuesday to him.

Hell, behold this here bit of genius:



My only weakness! Three punches to the same spot rendering my whole armour inoperative! Inconceivable!

[Elheru Aran]

Doom did conquer the world, fairly casually at that, at least once.

If you go by the various stories, he's usually foiled by either some unprecedented Deus ex Machina, Reed out-thinking him (and to be fair Richards is supposed to be one of the greatest minds in the Marvel Universe, so Doom isn't too shabby), or by simply fucking up some minor detail (not counting on Captain America being mentally resilient enough to defeat the Purple Man's mind-control in the story where he conquered the Earth). If you consider only his win/loss record, he would have to be so mentally deficient that he could never have managed to accomplish what he does in his history, extremely unlucky... or maybe it's narrative causality. Can't have the bad guy winning.

[Vain]

He doesn't bring anything to the table that Doctor Doom hasn't encountered multiple times in his decades of comic book combat.

And yet, somehow, in all these decades of combat, he lost. Every single time. He is still rules of small country in ass end of nowhere, beaten by dozens of heroes and groups that would never touch Vader. Not just squirrels, as that can be chalked as comedic factors, but serious opponents of very low power scale.

I already conceded that he has plenty of low end showings to point at. He defeats omnipotent beings like the Beyonder, but gets punked by Squirrel Girl. I also pointed out that there is usually an in-universe explanation for a heavy hitter like Doom jobbing for the heroes. So what? To me, this is the same argument as saying that Captain Kirk would find a way to beat Vader in a fist fight, because he is the hero and always wins in his own stories, which is an argument that was dismissed as nonsense, at least on this site, years ago.

Do you have any concrete suggestions for how Vader could realistically defend himself against Doom going all out? Or how Vader might hope to harm him, given the defensive feats he's shown?

As far as any of Vader's personal technological feats exceeding Doom's... Lolwut? A high end Doombot is supposed to be indistinguishable from Doom himself. Which robots did Vader build that were capable of ludicrous no-limits comic book super-science?

[Irbis]

Doom did conquer the world, fairly casually at that, at least once.

Was it Elseworlds/What If story, by any chance? Because if so, these saw a lot of outrageous things.

Do you have any concrete suggestions for how Vader could realistically defend himself against Doom going all out? Or how Vader might hope to harm him, given the defensive feats he's shown?

Well, even if we assume he can't just use the force to do impossibly complex task of striking a single point until it gives, he has lightsaber. Which canonically cut effortlessly through much thicker armour made by much more advanced civilization. But ok, let's assume Doom's armour is lightsaber proof. Except, you know, for eyes. Since Doom forgot to armour these for some reason, probably because striking at holes is inconceivable

Speaking of the force, it allows Vader to deflect blasts and vaporize projectiles with his sword. Does Doom have anything that can go past that? Also, never mind force choking, how resistant he is to "I am not the Vader you're looking for" and Vader simply walking up to him and stabbing him in the (unarmoured) eye? Not mind control, no, simply being confused or clouded in critical moment? Especially when he does that 'handicap myself to fight honorably' bit, seeing Vader has no problems killing Doom on slightest opening, unlike superheroes Doom usually faces and is accustomed to fight?

Yes, he has some feats that, maybe, maybe, could allow him to defeat Vader. But, somehow, he never uses these to good effect vs regular humans and his power base is far inferior to Vader's own, making me think his claims of power are as inflated as Doom's ego. Do we even have guarantee these "time travel circuits" are real and not just villain's bluff? That only later mutated into real thing as writers took it at face value? Because comics with Doom I am familiar with (mostly 80s and nearly 90s stuff) don't quite paint him as that strong, but buffoonish, maybe he got upgrade later, I don't know.

As far as any of Vader's personal technological feats exceeding Doom's... Lolwut? A high end Doombot is supposed to be indistinguishable from Doom himself. Which robots did Vader build that were capable of ludicrous no-limits comic book super-science?

He built C-3PO. As a child. If you ask anyone working on computer translation algorithms what if would take to have a computer translate - so well it preserves nuances of diplomatic protocol - every single one of its six million languages to every other, well... You'd hear Doc Brown's reply from 1955 - it can't be done, Marty.

It might not sound like much on paper, but imagine a star with six million points, then draw a line from each point to every other one, double it (as translating back is non trivial) and tell us what number of lines you got. And that's with human languages, not with totally alien ones. Frankly, building Doombot's brain next to it is task so trivial as, say, emulating every single computer existing in 1985 on modern laptop.

Then, as teenager, Anakin meddled with his artificial hand, constantly rebuilding it, then as Vader improved his own implants and suit. Using force to improve it beyond pure machinery, yes. To me, looks like Vader would take one look at Doombot, shrug, and asked 'that's all?'.

[Elheru Aran]

Doom did conquer the world, fairly casually at that, at least once.

Was it Elseworlds/What If story, by any chance? Because if so, these saw a lot of outrageous things.

Honestly don't recall. Marvel Graphic Novel, I want to say.

Fairly sure he may have made a few attempts in the standard comics, though.

But as I said: What it comes down to is, can Doom withstand a Force choke (or heart attack or whatever) long enough to unleash technological or sorcererous attacks upon Vader? That initial advantage is what gives the Dark Lord an edge.

[Vendetta]

He doesn't bring anything to the table that Doctor Doom hasn't encountered multiple times in his decades of comic book combat.

And yet, somehow, in all these decades of combat, he lost. Every single time. He is still rules of small country in ass end of nowhere, beaten by dozens of heroes and groups that would never touch Vader. Not just squirrels, as that can be chalked as comedic factors, but serious opponents of very low power scale.

Technically right now Doom is the divine emperor of all creation (at least what bits of it are left in Battleworld).

[Vain]

He doesn't bring anything to the table that Doctor Doom hasn't encountered multiple times in his decades of comic book combat.

And yet, somehow, in all these decades of combat, he lost. Every single time. He is still rules of small country in ass end of nowhere, beaten by dozens of heroes and groups that would never touch Vader. Not just squirrels, as that can be chalked as comedic factors, but serious opponents of very low power scale.

Technically right now Doom is the divine emperor of all creation (at least what bits of it are left in Battleworld).

Although this is an impressive feat, I don't think God Emperor Doom is any more relevant to a duel with Darth Vader than any of the other times Doom has achieved universal or cosmic level powers. It shows what he can achieve when he really wants something, but isn't illustrative of his default state.

Doom did conquer the world, fairly casually at that, at least once.

Was it Elseworlds/What If story, by any chance? Because if so, these saw a lot of outrageous things.

Honestly don't recall. Marvel Graphic Novel, I want to say.

Fairly sure he may have made a few attempts in the standard comics, though.

But as I said: What it comes down to is, can Doom withstand a Force choke (or heart attack or whatever) long enough to unleash technological or sorcererous attacks upon Vader? That initial advantage is what gives the Dark Lord an edge.

You are thinking of Emperor Doom, an arc from 1987 (as opposed to the current God Emperor Doom storyline, above). As far as I am aware, it is not a What if... or alternate world story.

As far as withstanding a force choke, Doom has survived having his body completely destroyed (by using his training in the Ovoid Mind Transfer technique to hop to an alternate body), and has used magic to regenerate massive (such as severed limbs) injuries in combat. Even presuming the force choke bypasses his defenses, I have never seen Vader use it to kill someone so instantaneously that Doom couldn't get off one of his myriad escape powers or activate an overkill super weapon before he is completely incapacitated.

Well, even if we assume he can't just use the force to do impossibly complex task of striking a single point until it gives, he has lightsaber. Which canonically cut effortlessly through much thicker armour made by much more advanced civilization. But ok, let's assume Doom's armour is lightsaber proof. Except, you know, for eyes. Since Doom forgot to armour these for some reason, probably because striking at holes is inconceivable

I think it's pretty clear that Doom's armor is lightsaber proof. Whether through enchantment or materials science, his armor tanked a shot from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, punches from The Hulk and Thing, and absorbed a blast from an 'atomic grenade'. As far as eye holes, his armor also protects him underwater and in hard vacuum, so I suspect that the eye holes aren't the weak points you assume them to be.

Speaking of the force, it allows Vader to deflect blasts and vaporize projectiles with his sword. Does Doom have anything that can go past that? Also, never mind force choking, how resistant he is to "I am not the Vader you're looking for" and Vader simply walking up to him and stabbing him in the (unarmoured) eye? Not mind control, no, simply being confused or clouded in critical moment? Especially when he does that 'handicap myself to fight honorably' bit, seeing Vader has no problems killing Doom on slightest opening, unlike superheroes Doom usually faces and is accustomed to fight?

Doctor Doom is renowned for having one of the strongest wills in the Marvel Universe. He is consistently resistant to telepathy, mind control and other forms of mental manipulation, and has prevented himself from being disintegrated through sheer force of will, however that works (I assume it is a magical effect).

As far as attacks that would be difficult to parry with a lightsaber, how about magical lightning? The Crimson Bands of Cyttorak? A horde of summoned demons? A swarm of nanite sized Doombots? Satellite launched 'orbital laser bombs'? Hell, nuclear fucking weapons, which Latveria has?

Yes, he has some feats that, maybe, maybe, could allow him to defeat Vader. But, somehow, he never uses these to good effect vs regular humans and his power base is far inferior to Vader's own, making me think his claims of power are as inflated as Doom's ego. Do we even have guarantee these "time travel circuits" are real and not just villain's bluff? That only later mutated into real thing as writers took it at face value? Because comics with Doom I am familiar with (mostly 80s and nearly 90s stuff) don't quite paint him as that strong, but buffoonish, maybe he got upgrade later, I don't know.

Which feats do you want scans for? I can show you one where he sent Morgan Le Fay back in time more than a million years with a spell? Or one where he time-shifted the Fantastic Four with a grenade? Or there was the incident where he trapped Loki outside of time with his machine and turned him into an art installation? Also, in that previous scan I linked, if you had read it, they were already two hundred years in the past, in Salem, and Doom used his circuits to return to the present. It clearly wasn't a bluff. Also, if you think that tanking a shot that knocked out Galactus, or stealing the Beyonder's powers are in inferior in any way to even expanded universe Vader's most impressive feats, I think you're being disingenuous.

He built C-3PO. As a child. If you ask anyone working on computer translation algorithms what if would take to have a computer translate - so well it preserves nuances of diplomatic protocol - every single one of its six million languages to every other, well... You'd hear Doc Brown's reply from 1955 - it can't be done, Marty.

It might not sound like much on paper, but imagine a star with six million points, then draw a line from each point to every other one, double it (as translating back is non trivial) and tell us what number of lines you got. And that's with human languages, not with totally alien ones. Frankly, building Doombot's brain next to it is task so trivial as, say, emulating every single computer existing in 1985 on modern laptop.

Then, as teenager, Anakin meddled with his artificial hand, constantly rebuilding it, then as Vader improved his own implants and suit. Using force to improve it beyond pure machinery, yes. To me, looks like Vader would take one look at Doombot, shrug, and asked 'that's all?'.

I actually think I know a lot more about natural language processing and machine translation than you do. Research in SMT is my full-time job, so if you're secretly someone in the community who I should have heard of, feel free to PM me and we can compare our CVs. In any case, if you want to claim that Anakin designed C-3P0's processing hardware, consciousness and translation engines from first principles, I'm going to have to ask for evidence. As protocol droids are already a thing in Star Wars, I think it's much more likely he assembled C-3P0 from scavenged off-the-shelf parts and software, in much the same way I might scrounge hardware from the dumpster at work, install Linux and open source SMT software (like Joshua) and build a custom translation model for an arbitrary pair of languages. I am certainly capable of this, and you probably are too with a little training (if you aren't already), but neither of us can claim to be super geniuses on the level of Doctor Doom. The difference between us and Anakin is that the state of the art is far more advanced in the Star Wars setting than it is here, and Anakin can dig things out of the trash that are already radically more advanced than what I have access to. If I build a machine from the old components I have lying around, it would ASTOUND Charles Babbage or Alan Turing. That doesn't make me remotely as smart or as accomplished as them. I have the advantage of an industrial base that was inconceivable in their time. Anakin has similar advantages over us, as you actually noted. Doom, on the other hand, designed the majority of his magitech himself, from the ground up. C-3P0, although an impressive feat for a child, is not comparable.

[Korgeta]

Well it's here the fight of all time!

...well till you see the preview for the next fight at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3esamc2Rs

[Simon_Jester]

I honestly think Doom's armor will not prove lightsaber-proof, even granted that it can take individual blasts of raw blunt force trauma from, say, the Hulk. By analogy, half inch steel plates will do a good job resisting being beaten on by a gorilla, but they won't resist an acetylene torch very well.

That said, if Doom routinely carries on his person (at least does so when prepared for battle) weapons or magic capable of feats like trapping people in force field bubbles, throwing them backwards in time, and the like... yes, I'd say he has a good chance in this fight overall.