Independance Day: Your Opinion

[Zor]

Independence Day. ID4. This movie remains somewhat controversial among movie goes and sci-fi fans. A major commercial success despite getting mixed reviews from critics. I've seen people denounce it, I've seen people defend it. But what is your opinion on this film?

Zor

[Adam Reynolds]

I went with train wreck for portraying the most advanced alien race to lose to American fighter pilots* and a macbook.

* As a side note, the reason that Randy Quaid's character was made a former fighter pilot was that the Pentagon forced the issue with regard to their support. They were unhappy with the idea of a crop duster pilot delivering the killing blow.

[FaxModem1]

Fun, good movie in the format of a 1970s disaster film epic, with aliens as the disaster, tearing down differences and uniting everyone. It's a rather positive message of "We can get along." and that things will work out, compared to today's blockbusters.

Recently, the web movie critic MovieBob did a video on it via his series, "Really That Good", which argues why, in his opinion, it's a great film, and I agree with a lot of it. Here's a link: Really that good

Does the film seem dated? A bit, but in a good way, in which people could be happy and smile in films, not have blatant 9/11 themes, US military worship that is overblown, women being nothing but sex symbols, or racist caricatures. Is the killing them through a computer virus silly? Absolutely, but it is a reference to War of the Worlds.

If you ever get the chance, try and watch the special edition, it includes a few more plotlines, fleshes out the characters even more, and makes everything more rounded out.

Overall, the film is a fun ride, worth a watch.

[Gandalf]

The extended cut is a bit better, but it's still a pretty meh film.

The most interesting thing in the film for me is what one reviewer called "the most Jewish man ever," played by Judd Hirsch.

[Grumman]

It's not perfect, but it's got enough going for it that it's well worth watching at least once.

[Darth Tanner]

It was great for the time, I remember getting the action figure aliens with a floppy disk adventure game inlcuded! Now that was hi tech!

There is a technical look at it on the net somewhere that works out that just the mothership moving into orbit should have completely destroyed the Earth regardless of any magic fire beams.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I first saw it when I was about 5, and I thought it was awesome (then again, anything with explosions and spaceships was awesome, so YMMV). With a much more educated (nut not much more mature, heh) 23 year old viewpoint, it's still an entertaining film. It has cool special effects which still look pretty good but don't totally dominate the film, it has some good dialogue and acting, some funny bits to avoid going all grimdark but without being a parody and so on.

So, ultimately, it's a good film and definitely fun to watch. Does it have plot holes and silly parts? Of course it does, but they don't break your brain and make you think "woah, hold on, what the hell?" For better or for worse it set the standard for sci-fi blockbusters, but we can't blame it for the dreck that followed.

[Borgholio]

It's a fun movie, IMO. The acting is actually fairly good and the action scenes are fun. People give the film flak about how easy it is to hack into the alien mothership with a Macbook. My take on the matter is that this is a fucking telepathic species that can read minds...what do they need computer security for?

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's a fun movie, IMO. The acting is actually fairly good and the action scenes are fun. People give the film flak about how easy it is to hack into the alien mothership with a Macbook. My take on the matter is that this is a fucking telepathic species that can read minds...what do they need computer security for?

I hadn't considered tat, but it's a good point. I'll file that under what TVTropes calls "Fridge Logic."

[Tribble]

Well, it was far easier for them to connect to alien hardware with their macbook than me trying to connect to my modem and printer via windows.

Oh, and here's a pretty good summary of the movie:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnnBNSlIqMs[/youtube]

[Purple]

As far as movies go it's ok. The only objectionable thing is that the plot, or rather the resolution is incredibly stupid. I mean seriously, come on.

It's a fun movie, IMO. The acting is actually fairly good and the action scenes are fun. People give the film flak about how easy it is to hack into the alien mothership with a Macbook. My take on the matter is that this is a fucking telepathic species that can read minds...what do they need computer security for?

A better question is why they have network protocols or even a CPU configuration remotely relatable to modern hardware. Does your laptop have hookups for coaxial TV cables or a cassette tape reader? And that's our own technology. There is just no plausible way to explain why alien computer infrastructure would in any way, shape or form be designed in such a way to be capable of interfacing with human equipment short of going all ancient alien.

[Elheru Aran]

IIRC, the reasoning was that Area 51 scientists had figured out some of the alien technology, including the computers aboard the ship, so they did have the interface figured out. How exactly they did that is not mentioned, as is the whole thing about them being able to interface with it. They did have it since Roswell in 1947, they had plenty of time to work on it. There's an expanded-universe novel about Dr. Okun becoming part of the Area 51 scientists and helping figure out the whole alien thing.

[Purple]

IIRC, the reasoning was that Area 51 scientists had figured out some of the alien technology, including the computers aboard the ship, so they did have the interface figured out. How exactly they did that is not mentioned, as is the whole thing about them being able to interface with it. They did have it since Roswell in 1947, they had plenty of time to work on it. There's an expanded-universe novel about Dr. Okun becoming part of the Area 51 scientists and helping figure out the whole alien thing.

Unless they reverse engineered the processor architecture and figured out the network protocols and actually designed custom cables I don't buy it. After all if they did that it would have meant an IT revolution.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Umm...they've had the thing since the late 40's...how do you know it didn't cause a computer revolution? I know the "alien tech gave us the Internet" plot device is used a lot, but given that it's easy to interface the two technologies in the film, it is reasonable to suppose that there was some alien tech influencing computer design for years.

[Borgholio]

Umm...they've had the thing since the late 40's...how do you know it didn't cause a computer revolution? I know the "alien tech gave us the Internet" plot device is used a lot, but given that it's easy to interface the two technologies in the film, it is reasonable to suppose that there was some alien tech influencing computer design for years.

In Star Trek, it was established that aliens gave us Velcro. No, really. Also that time travelers gave us the computer revolution.

As far as the interface, they did have the alien fighter for 50 years. More than enough time to develop a network or modem interface to let the laptop connect to the mothership via the fighter's computer.

[Elheru Aran]

I think there was some crack at some point about 'invented the Internet' or something, but that could well be another film or show rattling around in my head.

Let's see, what would the process be? Identify what is the 'computer'... back in the 50s that may have been more difficult as their idea of a 'computer' was a massive structure the size of half a room with vacuum tubes. Figure out how to turn it on; probably accomplished by the age-old method of 'now what does this button do?' Likely take it apart at some point. If it's got wires, they have to go somewhere from somewhere; if it's solid state... well forget it for the most part. Are there input jacks? A hard drive or some equivalent thereof? HDMI cables? And so forth. Would likely entail straight-up inventing or reverse-engineering new technology. Never mind figuring out how to make human OSes talk to a completely, literally alien OS.

Really that's one of the biggest holes in the plot... they have this alien spacecraft sitting in Area 51 for decades, they figure out how to turn it on and how to mess around with the computer, they might even be able to fly it-- and they don't have ANY new, obviously alien-derived technology? Either it's extraordinarily difficult to reverse-engineer, as in one of those 'black box' type things where it does stuff but you have zero idea how it works, or they *have* derived some technology... but it's incredibly hard/expensive/inefficient/whatever by Earth standards. Hell, it could be that some of the alien technology only works by telepathic manipulation; note that Will Smith didn't fire any guns on the fighter when he was flying it around (though granted, he wasn't trying to draw attention to himself).

[TOSDOC]

I enjoyed this review on the movie (love this site in general). I remember enjoying myself in the theater watching it, but wasn't quite sure what was wrong with it until reading more up on it later, in reviews like this one. The writing and performances really help you get past the plot holes (Will Smith, Judd Hirsch, and Robert Loggia were the best IMO). Truth be told, you could do a whole other movie from another person's point of view on these same events that could be completely horrifying instead.

http://www.1000misspenthours.com/review ... nceday.htm

[Napoleon the Clown]

Guys, come on. Jeff Goldblum was using a Mac. Back then, what percent of software did Macs get along with? Almost none that wasn't created specifically for them. Obviously Steve Jobs ripped off the killer alien menace instead of the work of other humans. It isn't computers in general that can share programs with the alien spacecraft. It was Macs and Macs alone.


As to, uh, my opinion on the movie. Um, well, it, ah, has Jeff Goldblum in it. So, ah, that's, that's a mark against it. His delivery, um, it doesn't really fit the feel of the ah, the uh, movie.

Also, the "America, Fuck Yeah!" is pretty overpowering in it. The movie is dumb as hell, had tons of cliches even then, and was generally mindless. Still a fun movie to watch.

[Sea Skimmer]

The aliens had crap for network security, and America decided to use AMRAAM missiles against space ships the size of mountains. Still not as dumb as many other action movies. I loved it.

[Vendetta]

Incredibly dumb, mostly fun, Will Smith punches an alien in the face.

[Napoleon the Clown]

He punches the alien's power armor. I'm not sure if that makes it cooler or stupider. Maybe both.

[Terralthra]

He punches the alien's power armor. I'm not sure if that makes it cooler or stupider. Maybe both.

Which still knocks it out, because conservation of momentum!

[Eternal_Freedom]

America decided to use AMRAAM missiles against space ships the size of mountains.

Yeah that's something that really always bugged me. Couldn't they find anything heavier? Also, why did Area 51 have all those spare F/A-18's lying about?

[Batman]

They 'did' try to use nukes earlier in the movie. The shields nixed them. Apparently all the nukes were gone by the time Goldblum & Smith hacked the alien Internet?
But yeah, expecting AAM level frag warheads to seriously affect a spaceship the approximate size of New York was pretty silly.
Stupid movie, yes, but still tolerable popcorn movie level stupid.

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah that's something that really always bugged me. Couldn't they find anything heavier? Also, why did Area 51 have all those spare F/A-18's lying about?

It was just dumb movie nonsense to ensure smoke trails, though a real AMRAAM makes almost no smoke after the motor fire fires by deliberate design.

Someone said here once years ago that the NOVEL include Harpoon missiles but that makes no damn sense either as the missile would be unable to function correctly against a giant stationary airborne target, and still only has a 500lb warhead. Anything less then a 2000lb GP bomb would be an utter joke, and its not like you could miss, 1941 night bombers wouldn't miss completely, and even that sort of bomb would be comically ineffective without massed heavy bomber attacks. In real life we surely would have used nukes out of hand, the Aliens had already inflicted a nuclear level of attack anyway.

One assumes the Area 51 F/A-18s flew in from other bases that got destroyed while they were airborne. Also the real Area 51 keeps part of an F-16 squadron around as chase planes as it is, could have been Hornets in another universe. The refueling gear and O2 refilling gear are NATO standard, and the Hornet doesn't need a starter cart so as long as nothing critical physically broken on the plane they'd be able to rearm and fly again from any major USAF base.

They 'did' try to use nukes earlier in the movie. The shields nixed them.

Well rather they tried one single nuke, and against the SIDE of the ship where it would transmit the smallest fraction of its blast energy to the target ! Considering these are ~15 mile spacecraft even an unshielded ship made of plain steel would actually have colossal resistance to such an attack. Simply, unless the nuke induced the power supply or ammo on the alien ship to destroy it, you'd actually expect it to survive a single blast. Certainly at least of a 200kt warhead. Some mass gravity arch bridges in Europe were expected to have 50% chances of withstanding nuclear Tomahawk attacks under realistic accuracy conditions. Biniki atoll test data suggested battleship crews below the armor deck would survive a low yield nuclear blast at the edge of the fireball.

9 megatons burst underneath the enemy ship is more on par with what it would actually take to destroy a craft that big. And a real attack plan would most probably involve first a mass cruise missile attack from multiple directions, those bombers can haul a lot more then one weapon, and if that failed someone would fly a suicide mission under the enemy ship to drop a gravity bomb in a laydown profile. Or plausibly both missions would execute at the same time with the cruise missiles impacting 1-2 minutesafter the laydown. Because the damn earth just had utterly huge numbers of people wiped out and doing anything else is absurd! The anti nuclear tripe in the film was the only part that ever bothered me. It was just such utter nonsense to stop at one single nuclear warhead when giant alien spaceships are already going full genocide on the entire human race!