OMNI SCIFI VERSUS: These Size-Chart ships fight! Who wins?

[Gavinfoxx]

So I was thinking... what if all of the ships on this:

http://dirkloechel.deviantart.com/art/S ... -398790051

Get into a fight? I mean, each of the ships in that actual image, or the most recent version of it, get into a fight? Minus any completely-fanon ships, however.

Let's set the scenario.

At each one of the ship's points of origin, the government or intelligence associated with each ship is told something along the lines of, by some deity sort of super-reality warper, "These vessels of yours will be taken and will be placed in an unfamiliar star system with many unfamiliar vessels that use unfamiliar technologies. Many will be hostile. Many will shoot first. If you manage to win the ensuing confrontation, you will have access to untold wealth and riches and technologies, both from the now-open controllable dimensional portals to their galaxies or their versions of your galaxy, and the novel sciences and ideas from the hulks of their ships. Many technologies will be compatible with your own. Many will not be. Any so-called 'trump cards' of yours, like literal permanent invulnerability or time travel or perfect temporal displacement or temporal rewriting or utterly perfect stealth or irresistible mind control, will be minimized to nigh invulnerability and 'simple temporal distortions' and almost perfect stealth and almost irresistible mind control. Strategic faster than light and jumping will be limited though if you have a form of tactical FTL, it is enabled. FTL combat might not be as useful as you think against slower groups, as for this combat, it will cause a reverse echo. Attempts to use FTL for useful time loops will fail. Communication will be an issue if you try to be peaceful. Science and understanding what other ships are doing and why will be difficult as well. They may come from places where the physical laws themselves are different, but everyone's capabilities will mostly work as they expect them to. It is possible that ships from different versions of your own timeline will be taken -forward or backward- and you will not know this until you find yourself near them. Be prepared to cooperate or compete with other timelines of yourself as you see fit. If this set of ships of yours is unarmed or peaceful, be prepared to try to run, hide, sell yourself well, scuttle your vessels, or bribe or abandon ship as you see fit. It is possible you may see familiar foes or friends as well, which might not behave or look as you expect. If you can communicate and recognize those similar to you, consider truces of convenience. Outfit and crew your vessels well. Have a plan for dealing with the unexpected and the blatantly impossible. Represent your universe well."

And this godlike entity basically keeps its word.

In the outskirts of a solar system with a wide variety of planets and asteroid belts and planets and such, including things like a garden world, all of these ships are placed, at the height of their readiness and preparation, in well-separated parts of the solar system. They are mostly placed outside the weapons range of all the other ships, and 'at rest' but with chances to accelerate and obtain combat readiness. It is not possible to tell ranges of weapons by how far ships are to one another because everyone is equidistant (space is big!). Related universes and polities and timelines and such are grouped roughly close to one another.

So... how does this go? Who ends up winning, who ends up losing? Who is a wild card? Who goes in guns blazing, who tries to hold back or hide or do something clever? Who tries to communicate, and who do they manage to team up with? Who threatens to blow up the star first? Who can make good on that threat?

...And does anyone want to write little mini fiction snippets, ideally in the 'voice' or style of the fiction universe in question, of how they think this would go?

Also, is there any bit I've forgotten or missed? Any more rules or clarifications that would tend to make this actually useful or relatively less of an obvious curbstomp via trump card? What things minimize 'lol time travel!' curbstomps?

[Ziggy Stardust]

When we are talking about who will win, are we talking about a specific ship or a specific faction? Because some factions are overrepresented on that image with respect to others. For example, both the Empire from Star Wars and the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40K will probably make up a significant percentage of the ships included (at least the capital ships). Will these ships have to fight each other for a victor to be determined or will they naturally be allied? It seems that there is a huge initial imbalance in favor of either of these factions, because not only are almost all of the ships of their that are included on that image dedicated warships, but they come from universes with a massive amount of firepower to throw around. Some of the ships from other universes on there aren't even combat ships at all!

[Gavinfoxx]

I mean, "What Polity gains total domination of the pocket dimension?"

And I don't think the 40k ships would win.

First of all, they would start taking a LOT of fire, being 'big obvious threat as a cohesive group'. Second, their range and tactical flexibility isn't actually all that great. They'd certainly take a LOT of punishment and make a good showing of themselves... but there are problems with being a big obvious target rather than a small ship with unlikely capabilities. I mean, there are multiple planet crackers on the field (Lexx, Behemoth, Dalek, one of the Super Star Destroyers), and planet-cracking-scale weaponry is more likely to be used on the BIG ships.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, uh, you do know that the Super Exelion alone could probably solo most of the 'traditional' short range, fight at sub-c speeds, laser spam sci fi ships without weird things with them? IE, it could solo the Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Homeworld, Wing Commander, Warhammer 40k, etc. ships?

There's also the fact that lots of places probably won't WANT ships to be completely annihilated... because even some ship that you wipe the floor with might have some interesting technological idea, especially that might work better in places with different physics...

[biostem]

It's a difficult comparison to make, as there is a huge disparity between power levels, even if vessels from 2 universes are of comparable size. for instance, the Lexx literally only has its planet-destroying beam - it is completely vulnerable in all other regards. The ID4 city-ship had that ground-attack beam and the ability to deploy fighters, but we don't know if it had FTL capabilities when not connected to the main mothership, and it never fired any other weapons. Plus, the ID4 aliens apparently needed the human satellites to be in orbit in order to coordinate their attacks. You'd have to take into account evidence from other aspects of their respective universes...

[Batman]

Actually we don't know the ID4 aliens are FTL capable period and one of the motherships did fire another weapon when it blew up that helicopter (which is admittedly not particularly impressive).

[Ahriman238]

Well, the Empire and Imperium will do alright just by virtue of having a group. But I'm not sure if they have any meaningful ability to hurt Atlantis or the First Ones, and I know fuck-all about EVE online.

The Honorverse ships get stomped, nothing remotely like their best is there except for a single Nike.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, the Empire and Imperium will do alright just by virtue of having a group. But I'm not sure if they have any meaningful ability to hurt Atlantis or the First Ones, and I know fuck-all about EVE online.

The Honorverse ships get stomped, nothing remotely like their best is there except for a single Nike.

40k ships have a weapons range of like 15k. Lots of other ships have a range of under 1km. Honorverse ships have a laser range of like 1,000,000km. Why would they get stomped again?

[Batman]

1. Because there's very few of them on that chart while there's Imperium and Wars ships in abundance.
2. I don't know about 40K but Wars weapon range for ray guns tops out at lighthour ranges so that measly 1 million km isn't going to help them much.
And unlike the Honorverse, Wars has FTL sensors that don't need your enemy using a specific drive system to detect them.
3. Wars throws around firepower the Honorverse can only dream of. A 40MT laser head is able to seriously hurt a Solarian Navy battlecruiser (with most of that yield dissapearing into empty space to boot). That's a tickle to a Star Destroyer.

[biostem]

Actually we don't know the ID4 aliens are FTL capable period and one of the motherships did fire another weapon when it blew up that helicopter (which is admittedly not particularly impressive).

Yeah.. forgot about that. Thinking back on it, it kind of looks like one of the fighters just shot out of the door/hatch they opened...

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you ever, on the screen, either movies or the shows, or the games, ever seen star wars ships fight at anything above maybe a kilometer or two distance?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well I would think that any warship there that doesn't have shields and isn't insanely fast and nimble like the ships from Andromeda will die quite rapidly. Red Dwarf especially, though why a big civvie mining ship is there is beyond me, virtually everything else on the chart is a warship of some kind.

As for the Star Wars range issue, no we haven't seen them fight at long range, but that's because every single damn engagement we see in the films is expressly a close-range fight (Coruscant, Endor), a chase, or fighters attacking a larger ship (Naboo, Yavin, Hoth Asteroid Belt, the chase over Tatooine from ANH).

However, it woudl be utter folly to assume that the close ranges we see on-screen are the norm, when every indicator we have is that the weapons are not that limited. And if we accept ICS books as still being canon, then it's stated clearly: Venator-class main gun turrets can hit targets at ranges of up to ten light-minutes.

[Batman]

@Gavinnfox:Irrelevant. You use a chart that has pre-Disney Wars designs, I use pre-Disney Wars canon rules, and that means upper end lighthour ranges.
Besides the firepower discrepancy stands even if we go only by the movies. Honorverse: 40MT most of the yield is wasted on empty space laser head can hurt a battlecruiser. Wars: ISDs use MT every joule hits the target LTLs for point defense. Wars ships 'laugh' at Honorverse weapons.

[Tribble]

I don't think there is really any question over who is going to go in guns blazing - "EXTERMINATE" is probably going to be the first thing everyone hears over their comm channels. And even though the Daleks are severely handicapped in this scenario they their conventional tech is nothing to sneeze at, what with planet killer weapons and all. I doubt one Dalek ship would win onbut it'd definitely be the first ship to kick things off, and it'd probably take quite a few ships with it.

EDIT: Sorry, the Daleks have two ships. And What exactly is that Time Lord cruiser about?

[The Romulan Republic]

I wonder if this leads to just about everyone else forming at least a temporary alliance against the Daleks.

Edit: That might be obligatory, actually. The Daleks fought the Time Lords to a draw, more or less.

[biostem]

I wonder if this leads to just about everyone else forming at least a temporary alliance against the Daleks.

Edit: That might be obligatory, actually. The Daleks fought the Time Lords to a draw, more or less.

Daleks vs Borg...

D: Exterminate!
B: Assimilate!
D: Exterminate!
B: Assimilate!
.
.
.

[The Romulan Republic]

More like:

"Exterminate!"

"You will be assim-"

Borg Cube is casually destroyed by the Daleks.

At least if they're Time War era Daleks.

[Batman]

Oh please. The Borg send a single Cube, which promptly gets eradicated by the Daleks. Thereupon the Borg send a single Cube, which promptly gets eradicated by The Daleks again. Bu, since they so obviously learn from their mistakes the Borg now...send a single Cube.

As for everybody allying to fight the Daleks while that would be the smart thing to do when was the last time SciFi civilisations did the smart thing?

[Tribble]

Well, the Timelords and Daleks are severely handicapped here because a lot of their tech is reality manipulation/time based. Time War Era Timelords and Daleks were literally destroying all of space and time while here they are merely planet killers. Still, their conventional tech is nothing to sneeze at - their ships are fast, well armoured/shielded, and the daleks at least have planet killer missiles.

Fortunately the Daleks are likely to simply charge in and start firing at everything they see. Lots of people are gonna die, but I doubt even the Daleks would be able to take them all on before someone takes them out.

And now that I think about it, the Timelords would probably go after the Daleks right away as they would assume they are the biggest threat, and as both sides are roughly on par they could end up wiping each other out.

[Gavinfoxx]

There is precisely the number of Borg ships on the field as there are on that image. Like five I think? The Borg aren't heavy hitters here...

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh please. The Borg send a single Cube, which promptly gets eradicated by the Daleks. Thereupon the Borg send a single Cube, which promptly gets eradicated by The Daleks again. Bu, since they so obviously learn from their mistakes the Borg now...send a single Cube.

As for everybody allying to fight the Daleks while that would be the smart thing to do when was the last time SciFi civilisations did the smart thing?

Well, the Federation contingent will likely offer to mediate a ceasefire/alliance.

Diplomacy is going to come down somewhat to who's in command. Someone like Picard could sit down with someone like Thrawn or Pellaeon (yeah, I know they're not canon any more) and someone like Honour Harrington for example, and hammer out a truce, even if they didn't see eye to eye about everything. If we get some of the more nutty/belligerent commanders, though...

Incidentally, a couple funny things I noticed regarding that chart-

1. The explanation that the TARDIS was left off because its both too big and too small.
2. The difficulty I had finding Federation ships on their because they're just so small compared to a lot of what's their.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, the Timelords and Daleks are severely handicapped here because a lot of their tech is reality manipulation/time based. Time War Era Timelords and Daleks were literally destroying all of space and time while here they are merely planet killers. Still, their conventional tech is nothing to sneeze at - their ships are fast, well armoured/shielded, and the daleks at least have planet killer missiles.

Didn't Victory of the Daleks feature an extremely powerful Dalek bomb small enough to be concealed in a man-sized android which was apparently built by a single run-down Dalek ship?

Fortunately the Daleks are likely to simply charge in and start firing at everything they see. Lots of people are gonna die, but I doubt even the Daleks would be able to take them all on before someone takes them out.

You know, Daleks have been known to retreat when outmatched.

And let them get away and start a military build up and they become a very big problem. They are good at rebuilding from scraps.

And now that I think about it, the Timelords would probably go after the Daleks right away as they would assume they are the biggest threat, and as both sides are roughly on par they could end up wiping each other out.

Didn't someone say their was one Time Lord ship to two Dalek ships? Might be an even match depending on the quality of the ships, but I wouldn't make that assumption. It could be an easy Time Lord victory or a Dalek slaughter.

[Batman]

There's no U in Honor (at least not in the name of the woman in question), it's what's 'there' and having ginormous ships is a lot easier in print (all you have to do is say 'the Rhododendron class supermurderfrigate is twelvetybillion kilometres long' and it is). Compared to a lot of other SciFi Trek ships 'are' tiny.

[Tribble]

Didn't Victory of the Daleks feature an extremely powerful Dalek bomb small enough to be concealed in a man-sized android which was apparently built by a single run-down Dalek ship?

Yes, I believe that they did.

Hell, the Timelords and Daleks are advanced to the point that they are super time/reality warpers themselves and it's debatable whether the deity of this scenario would actually be capable of holding them to its rules.

You know, Daleks have been known to retreat when outmatched.

And let them get away and start a military build up and they become a very big problem. They are good at rebuilding from scraps.

The key being when they know they are outmatched. IMO there are few ships here that are capable of taking on the Daleks, and they are more likely to decide to simply get it over with and try to kill everyone right away rather than retreat. And they don't really have anywhere to retreat to, given the space/time constraints.

Didn't someone say their was one Time Lord ship to two Dalek ships? Might be an even match depending on the quality of the ships, but I wouldn't make that assumption. It could be an easy Time Lord victory or a Dalek slaughter.

Yes, though it's a Timelord cruiser rather than a TARDIS. I don't know much about it. Does anybody have any info?

[The Romulan Republic]

Is it even canon? I'm not sure I've ever heard of it before.