Arcology city or a quasi-modern shire (RAR!)

[Zor]

In this scenario ROB has decided that you must live in one of two science fictiony places. Both are located on the two moons orbiting a gas giant that have been terraformed and populated by humans for some time now.

Your first option is an apartment in Arcology City. Said Arcology is a 1.5 kilometer tall pyramid with roughly the same geometry as the Giza pyramids with some 450 storeys and is home to about 150,000 people and moreover is part of a city composed of about two hundred similar buildings with various industrial and support buildings between them including huge vertical farms to feed and support such a city. There are some two hundred such cities on this planet where 99.9% of the population lives. Each Arcology is a self contained facility containing shopping centers, restaurants, schools, hospitals, police precincts and similar. There are arcology recreation facilities as well as a few areas outside the main arcologies dedicated to recreation. Transportation in and around each arcology is aided by moving walkways, including tiered moving walkways that get faster as you get towards the center and for longer distance travel there is a network of double decker Maglev trains. Even so living space is a bit tight in these buildings due to the fact that they have more than ten times the population density of NYC. Many of the people who live in this city of arcologies have become agrophiles who like knowing that they are living in a city and often wanting to go outside for long periods to be something that weird people do. High density urban living has resulted in the adoption of an set of social etiquette codes like what you would find in East Asia. Ownership of firearms by private citizens is illegal and even the gangs don't bother with them much. People here are as a rule collectively minded. Never the less there are a lot of subcultures. In any case this civilization produces a lot of media from movies to TV to video games and all that jazz. Food is alright, but meat that was not grown in a culture vat is considered a luxury commodity and usually costs the equivalent of at least $50 per kilo and although of the cheap food in general is made from genetically engineered yeast cultures.

The second option is to live in what is basically a human scaled hobbit hole in a Shire. It is similar to Bag Ends in a lot of ways, but with functioning toilets and running water. You are a modest landlord here and own some farmland and rent there from. Around you are a lot of picturesque farms, other such hobbit holes and similar houses, small woods and similar places. Pretty much the entire population of the planet lives like this. There are a few small cities with populations of up to 250,000 but these are few and far between, and these are designed to be low impact. Most people dress in a hobbitish fashion barring the addition of shoes, though in other areas they are closer to a cheerful version of rural Germany, rural Italy, premodern greece, colonial america (minus the bad parts), premodern East Asia and other such regions. Transportation in this area is done either by low power but long range electric cars that can go as fast as 60km per hour (which you have one) or a number of picturesque wood burning steam trains, with a few faster vehicles made off planet existing for emergencies. Firearms laws are lax for those who don't have a history of violence, but ownership of guns that are not hunting rifles, varmit guns, sport pistols or recreation muskets is rare. Most people here are easy going, individualistic in their outlook on life but have a strong belief that they should aide those who fall on hard times (after all, hard times might fall on them some day) if rather conservative (in the sense of "we have things the way we like them thank you very much"). The food is good, natural, cheap and plentiful and cooking is considered a high art among these people. Hospitals are fairly well stocked. Electricity is fairly widespread and most houses have a locally made TV for watching the news and Podunk local entertainment. You have a laptop with associated gear made on the arcology planet, which is a luxury item on this world but while there is a local internet there are maybe 5 million people with regular access to it tops. Interfacing with arcology world's internet is not viable as it at best 1.6 million km away.

Neither moon has war or major unrest. Both places have a ethnically diverse population and think (if you explain the ideas to them) that racism, sexism or homophobia are totally stupid pants ideas that only morons would take seriously.

Where do you live?

Zor

[Jub]

I'm far more suited to the lifestyle of the Arcology. The biggest downside for me would be the food, but it likely won't be worse than some of the stuff I've been known to buy from the local 7/11. Being from a relatively spread out city the lack of space outside my living area might be jarring, but I've lived in small basement suites and apartments and was never bothered by living in a small home. Plus I could always be one of the oddballs who goes outside if it gets too stuffy.

The plus sides are that finding a group who enjoys similar hobbies would be easier, my lack of a car and license would all but cease to matter, and entertainment would be to the standard I'm used to (if not better). I can see myself sometimes wondering if the other choice and the freer simpler life it offers might have suited me, but in the end I'm more of a city person who likes to camp once in a while than a person who'd enjoy a smaller rural setting.

[Purple]

How bad is the "cheap" food on the archology? That's my main question. I consider cooking to be a high art and frankly if I have to subside on fast food levels of yuck I'd rather shoot my self right now. So that's the real question here.

[Jub]

How bad is the "cheap" food on the archology? That's my main question. I consider cooking to be a high art and frankly if I have to subside on fast food levels of yuck I'd rather shoot my self right now. So that's the real question here.

Even if the food is bad there's nothing stopping you from growing some herbs and such in a home garden to up the quality of what you can make. You could probably even start a counter culture farming group that uses some of the land outside the city to grow food and raise livestock.

[bilateralrope]

An expensive option becoming a luxury item for no reason other than it's expensive isn't unheard of in real life, and the non-vat meat will also appeal to the "natural is better" crowd. So the vat grown meat being the same quality as the non-vat meat sounds quite possible. Even the vat grown meat being better than non-vat meat is possible as the vats might allow for better quality control than farmers can get from non-vat sources.

Though a lot of the quality differences (taste, texture, etc) will be subjective. So I can see the locals believing the vat grown meat to taste/feel worse, even if it's the better option by my standards.

Or the vat meat could be worse by our standards. All we have to go on is

Food is alright

Which I'm taking to mean that the food, while possibly worse than what I eat today, isn't going to be a deal breaker to anyone who prefers the Arcology.

[Zor]

How bad is the "cheap" food on the archology? That's my main question. I consider cooking to be a high art and frankly if I have to subside on fast food levels of yuck I'd rather shoot my self right now. So that's the real question here.

Sausages, hot dogs and similar don't taste substantially different. The rest of the culture meat tastes noticeably different from stuff that's been on a cow or a pig, you don't get steaks so much as hockey pucks of muscle tissue and the texture is definitely different. Most people say that natural meat is better than cultured meat all things being equal, but well prepared culture meat is better than poorly prepared natural meat. Vegetables and bread are both fairly common, with rice being more common still. Sake is more common than beer. Yeast starch is used in a variety of things such as instant noodles, fries from vending machines, breakfast cereals, low cost tortillas, the local equivelent to popcorn, chips and other such things and taste more neutrally starchy than anything else. Most table sugar is made from refined yeast as is the paper used by this society.

Zor

[madd0ct0r]

Given I own an allotment, the shire all the way. Five million people is still much much larger then the number of real people I interact with online over a year, and I don't see even close friends all that often in real life. I've paid my dues in the body and chaotic. A peaceful life in the shire sound deeply appealing.

[Purple]

Even if the food is bad there's nothing stopping you from growing some herbs and such in a home garden to up the quality of what you can make. You could probably even start a counter culture farming group that uses some of the land outside the city to grow food and raise livestock.

Do you have any idea how labor intensive that is? Farming is a full time job. And I would hope that I already have one of those.

Sausages, hot dogs and similar don't taste substantially different. The rest of the culture meat tastes noticeably different from stuff that's been on a cow or a pig, you don't get steaks so much as hockey pucks of muscle tissue and the texture is definitely different. Most people say that natural meat is better than cultured meat all things being equal, but well prepared culture meat is better than poorly prepared natural meat. Vegetables and bread are both fairly common, with rice being more common still. Sake is more common than beer.

Zor

So basically vegetables exist but meat sucks and given that you made no mention of fruit I take it those are off the table entirely. The rest was edited out because frankly I'd rather eat a packet of razor blades than I would anything with the word instant on the package.

---

Shire it is than.

[Zor]

So basically vegetables exist but meat sucks and given that you made no mention of fruit I take it those are off the table entirely. .

There are fruits I apologize for the oversight.

Zor

[Simon_Jester]

Shire. I like having living space, and the missus gets frustrated at having loud neighbors. I suspect, with our luck, we would inevitably have loud neighbors. Probably with dogs, with our luck.

[Enigma]

Shire all the way.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hmm...if this ROB transports me exactly as I am I'll take the arcology as frankly in my present condition living in a highly dispersed area that requires me to transport myself simply is not viable.

Now if the ROB were to make me into a physically fit and healthy human while moving me, then the Shire option becomes more attractive, but I'd probably still go with the Arcology...IF my apartment has outside windows.

[Joun_Lord]

I guess Imma be a hobbit. The arcology sounds like an interesting place to visit occasionally but that is even doubtful considering it sounds like it would be a worse version of NYC with all the crowding, rights restricting, and probably crime (people with illegal or rare luxury items are going to create a black market trade and criminal organizations to run it). Maybe visit a smaller arcology if I'm going on a interplanetary shopping run.

Is interplanetary travel common and cheap like a current plane or was the colonization efforts like current-ish tech generation ships that means getting into space is still by expensive rockets that only rich people can afford to hitch a ride on?

The shire sounds more my style. I like the great outdoors (even if I should go out more), I like not having neighbors so close they can hear me when I.......watch tv, I like being able to own guns even if I currently don't own any aside from a flare gun from a country that doesn't exist anymore, and I like real meat without paying a shitton for it.

I wouldn't mind being able to access the arcology planet's net to atleast download the latest movies and games even if I can't play Call of Duty 65 online with arcology players but even thats not a deal breaker.

I probably wouldn't go with the fashions be it hobbit or colonial America (assuming that where I live) though.

[Purple]

Same story here basically. My one and only request would be to be dropped off in a German or French speaking part of the shire. I am sick and tired of english.

[Jub]

I wonder if people's answers would change if the technology and internet on the shire world were set to where they were at in the year 2000? No HD anything, slow connections, no youtube or Netflix, gaming on PS1/N64/Dreamcast level consoles, needing new PC upgrades every 6 months to keep up, etc.

[Starglider]

The Internet was plenty interesting enough back in 2000, it was just more of a reading experience than a multimedia experience (although music sharing was just starting to take off). Actually it was really exciting but that was mostly due to the novelty and pace of advance.

The description does not contain anything compelling enough in the high-density situation to outweigh the major disadvantages, since pretty much all the same technology is present in the rural planet and presumably software and media can still be mail-ordered even if downloads are impractically slow. The arcologies would probably have more and better employment options, but I'm not clear if that is a factor here as you seem to be just assumed to have a job or other income.

[Broomstick]

Shire for me, all the way. Up to and including bare-footing like a hobbit

[Adam Reynolds]

I would have to be in the minority that chooses arcology. Because realistically, the standard of technology in the shire would have to be much lower. The fact that it appears to not be is a problem with the scenario. A second problem is that the relative level of wealth that you are given within the shire seems higher. Assuming an equivalent level of wealth in the arcology, one would likely be able to afford things like real meat relatively often.

[Batman]

I take out ROB and move back to the real world.

[Adam Reynolds]

I take out ROB and move back to the real world.

Then we would stop getting these scenarios. I for one find them amusing.

[Purple]

I wonder if people's answers would change if the technology and internet on the shire world were set to where they were at in the year 2000? No HD anything, slow connections, no youtube or Netflix, gaming on PS1/N64/Dreamcast level consoles, needing new PC upgrades every 6 months to keep up, etc.

Not really. At least not for me. The available internet is already nothing more than a novelty toy given how little people have access to it. Hell, I doubt that with only 5 million people having regular decent access to it we'd even have anything worth looking up.

[Batman]

I take out ROB and move back to the real world.

Then we would stop getting these scenarios. I for one find them amusing.

Notice 1) I said 'take out', not 'kill' (that being because I never kill), and 2) the R in ROB stands for 'Random', thus even if I 'did' kill this particular one there'd be plenty others available for future scenarios.

[Joun_Lord]

I would have to be in the minority that chooses arcology. Because realistically, the standard of technology in the shire would have to be much lower. The fact that it appears to not be is a problem with the scenario. A second problem is that the relative level of wealth that you are given within the shire seems higher. Assuming an equivalent level of wealth in the arcology, one would likely be able to afford things like real meat relatively often.

The standard of tech wouldn't have to be much lower. Though the planet is mostly rural it seems to be by choice rather then access to tech. They have access to tech from the arcology world but most choose to live a simple life but even simple life doesn't mean someone isn't going to have a kickass tv and computer set-up. Really because most people are so isolated and probably haven't many activities to do they are going to spend more on entertainment tech then most arcology people. You see such a thing already with rural living people today. They can't go to the movies or head towards the mall to do mall things like be disgusted by being in a fucking mall so they invest heavily in tech to entertain themselves. Some people might live like the Amish and be okay with that but most people aren't going to do that.

And just because they are given land and the ability to rent out some land doesn't mean the shire dweller is more wealthy. Rural land is cheap and one can accumulate alot of it. Using that land to rent out isn't going to make anyone rich either. The land is cheap so rent is going to be cheap. Probably enough to buy a few extra toys but not enough to be rich. A city dweller with the same level of income would not be able to do the same unless they already owned property through family because land in a crowded city is at a premium. Look how expensive modern New York apartments are, a single bedroom apartment is over $3000 dollars in rent. Compare that to my houses rent here in the outskirts of Charleston WV in a semi-rural area which is about $400. Now imagine the differences in a city 10 times more crowded then New York Shitty and a completely rural area.

[bilateralrope]

I am currently on a medication which comes with a warning to avoid "too much" sunlight. Which makes me heavily biased towards the Arcology. Even if I try to ignore that, I'd probably still pick it over the rural world.

Interfacing with arcology world's internet is not viable as it at best 1.6 million km away.

Google puts that at 5.3 light seconds. People are working on how to make an Interplanetary internet today. So having an internet connection to the Arcology looks very possible.

Sure, anything real-time isn't going to be an option. But anything that doesn't need to be real-time looks viable. Even something requiring high bandwidth.

[Simon_Jester]

Now if the ROB were to make me into a physically fit and healthy human while moving me, then the Shire option becomes more attractive, but I'd probably still go with the Arcology...IF my apartment has outside windows.

Odds are so very very much against you there- unless you mean outside windows that look out onto a corridor/street.

I wonder if people's answers would change if the technology and internet on the shire world were set to where they were at in the year 2000? No HD anything, slow connections, no youtube or Netflix, gaming on PS1/N64/Dreamcast level consoles, needing new PC upgrades every 6 months to keep up, etc.

The last is incompatible with the others- if you need a PC upgrade every six months it's because the technology is advancing rapidly. In which case sure, it may suck now but in five years it'll be much better.

And frankly, yes, I would still take that. I don't urgently need a smartphone, or a cell phone at all. I'd miss streaming video but I could live without it; I didn't discover Youtube until about 2009 and didn't really miss it prior to that time. Electronic gaming was excellent in the 1990s, or at least plenty of gems were being made- sure, the graphics were terrible by modern standards but by 1999 they were at least good enough that they looked quasi-realistic.