Doctor Who season 9 E 12 - Hell Bent

[mr friendly guy]

Good grief. Typical Moffat fare.

1. Good build up and then ends with crap
2. Companion wank.
3. Another Moffat created character wank. Didn't we get enough of River Song? Now we deal with Aya Stark.
4. Oh noes, Doctor is bad guy. Er I mean he is one half of the hybrid the TL were so afraid of that they imprisoned him to questioned him about it.
5. We are Time Lords. We are bad ass motherfuckers. But we don't do anything in this episode. Ugggh.

Geez, what happened to the days where is evil in the universe and the Doctor fights it. Now its a stories about how the Doctor could be the biggest evil. Remember that bullshit with the Silence with the Doctor having an initial victory and River Song berating him as this is the reason why people fear him. Yeah, but the Silence kind of attacked him first.

So if you want stories where it turns out the Doctor could be the biggest evil, this is for you.

Edit - haven't had much time to spend on the board lately, but I posted this to express my disgust with this episode.

[Hillary]

Try posting in the right thread next time - some us have yet to see Hell Bent.

Not appreciated.

[The Romulan Republic]

Good potential, largely wasted, despite a few good scenes. Typical Moffat flaws were on display.

But still, Gallifrey's back. Cool.

Edit: And the title is "Hell Bent".

[mr friendly guy]

Try posting in the right thread next time - some us have yet to see Hell Bent.

Not appreciated.

Hell Bent is listed as episode 11 of this series. My title posted this as episode 12. I mean, how much more clearer can it be that its after Hell Bent?

[DaveJB]

For the first two-thirds or so it was actually a really good story, but it all got messy near the ending, almost as if Moffat had written a Gallfrey episode and a "Doctor rescues Clara and tries to save her life" episode, then smooshed them into one when he got the idea for "Heaven Sent." Still, the overall product wasn't too bad. I didn't appreciate their screwing around with what was a pretty nice exit for Clara two episode ago, but I'm going to rationalise that one way with the fact that there aren't too many places where you can safely land an American diner, and that there was no mention of anyone disabling the stolen TARDIS's recall circuit, so either way Clara will likely end up being back on Gallifrey a lot sooner than she thinks.

One thing I do have to say is that this year's Christmas Special looks like absolute shit judging by the trailer. Don't imagine I'll be making too much effort to dash home from the relatives to watch that one on Xmas Day.

[The Romulan Republic]

Christmas special looks like light fluff. I can live with that.

But I have grown tired of Moffat's approach (which was always flawed), and would like a new head writer. I want Capaldi to get at least one season under someone else, rather than (like Smith), having his entire run defined by Moffat.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ugh. What the bloody hell.

Is it possible for a companion to leave the modern series without a huge amount of fuss and drama? Yes, I know Martha did but even she kept getting pulled back in. So far it seems that they have to leave in such a way that they can't easily come back (trapped in parallel world/memory erased/stuck in Manhattan/dies (sort of)).

I will give the episode credit for resolving the End of Time/Day of the Doctor problem with Rassilon being a dick but the other Time Lords being, well, not dicks.

Generally though, since Clara showed up it all went downhill rapidly. And now we have Clara and Ashildur/Me running around in their own TARDIS, not to mention Rassilon flying around somewhere probably quite pissed that the Doctor ousted him. Seriously, Moffat gave Clara a gods-damn TARDIS. How much more of a special snowflake can she be? Good thing she isn't coming back next season (though if Moffat is still in charge I won't put odds on her being completely absent).

[Bedlam]

Yeah, that could have been much better, it just seemed so unfocused. An entire episode about the Doctor trying to save a companion who had already died. I really wish that it had gone differently when they pulled Clara out of time, have the Doctor threatened the rest of the Time Lords to let her live and then have her talk him down tell him she takes responsibility for her actions and that it's time, she has some noble last words and steps back into time to die. Then they go on with a plot about something actually happening.

The hybrid thing was so very obvious once that actually worded it out, standing in the ruins does not mean destroyed, although I wouldn't be against them actually doing more with this in future.

I loved the classic TARDIS set, it's so white and roundally!

I really don't get the mind wipe and where is goes, so the Doctor can't remember exactly what Clara looks like and said but can in general remember what they did together, but by the end he's met her again and thus knows what she looks like and that she has a TARDIS. I suppose there's a little less of an emotional link there but won't his curiosity drive him just as much to find out about her? Plus isn't she still destroying the universe by existing?

Did Me make it to the end of the universe the long way? Why havn't the rest of that wimpy warrior race people done the same if it's there first aid kit keeping her alive? After untold billions of years she never got hit by something she couldn't heal from? No decapitation, no disintegration? That seems almost impossible. And what happened to her memory problems? After several hundred years she kept having to renew her memories, what happens over billions of years, the last time she met someone would have been millions or billions of years ago, how did she even know who the Doctor was anymore? I suspect time travel was involved somewhere along the line and she's not much older than the last time we saw her.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Also, Doctor Who already did the end of the universe in Utopia, it was cold and dark and a hundred trillion years from now, so I dunno where they're getting this "it's only a few billion years away yet there's still a sun to shine at us dramatically."

[The Romulan Republic]

Its Doctor Who. Continuity doesn't really apply, unfortunately.

[B5B7]

Clara is now a space zombie (no pulse). Can anything kill her body now, because as a fixed point her death is at when/where the raven got her. A space zombie with a Tardis and a companion.
And now my dear readers, for your worse nightmare - a spinoff series - Zombie Who.

[DaveJB]

Also, Doctor Who already did the end of the universe in Utopia, it was cold and dark and a hundred trillion years from now, so I dunno where they're getting this "it's only a few billion years away yet there's still a sun to shine at us dramatically."

We saw from "The Sun Makers" in the classic series that sun-like substitutes can be made even by races less advanced by the Time Lords, so presumably it'd be no trouble for them to make something similar, or to time-scoop a star that nobody would miss from elsewhere in history.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That doesn't explain the fairly enormous difference in time though. Going from "100 trillion years" to "a few billion" is silly even for this program.

[DaveJB]

That doesn't explain the fairly enormous difference in time though. Going from "100 trillion years" to "a few billion" is silly even for this program.

I had to re-check the episode, as I wasn't quite sure whether they were talking about Gallifrey being 4.5 billion years in the future or the Doctor just having spent that long in the confession dial before being transported to the far future. However, it seems like they indeed meant the former, which would actually put it half a billion years before the Face of Boe trilogy, much less "Utopia."

So yeah, unless a Gallifreyan billion is actually the same as a traditional English billion (meaning 4,000,000 million years instead of 4,000 million years), pretty far off the mark.

[Enigma]

Try posting in the right thread next time - some us have yet to see Hell Bent.

Not appreciated.

Hell Bent is listed as episode 11 of this series. My title posted this as episode 12. I mean, how much more clearer can it be that its after Hell Bent?

Not sure if you are joking or being serious.

Hell Bent was a fine episode but at the same time stupid. He garnered a lot of goodwill and then pissed it away.

[Coaan]

Try posting in the right thread next time - some us have yet to see Hell Bent.

Not appreciated.

Hell Bent is listed as episode 11 of this series. My title posted this as episode 12. I mean, how much more clearer can it be that its after Hell Bent?

You are wrong.

Heaven Sent is the 11th episode and Hell Bent is the 12th. Iplayer and just about every information medium on the internet confirms this so I don't know where you're getting this idea from.

Here is a helpful guide.

[Starglider]

So much wasted potential. If someone had taken Moffat to task and absolutely banned Clara from appearing in this eposide, it could have been great. There could have been some great interaction with the time lords, but it was glossed over in favour of even more overwrought and annoying Clara worship, and of course retcon of what could otherwise have been a decent and moving exit for the character.

[Parallax]

This was a story that should have been split into two episodes and a thorough editing job done on it.

It started off rather nicely but then started to fall down once the firing squad missed. Yes, all of them. The reinforcements come from nowhere - did the Doctor go into the City before going to the Barn? We don't know, it was never shown. What did he use to summon those ships? No clue. Who was in them? No idea.
And what if the firing squad had actually done their job? He'd be dead and the reinforcements would be suffering possibly the most awkward entrance in history.

And somehow the entire planets loyalty to the Doctor vastly outweighs their loyalty to Rassilon - the founder of their *entire civilisation* and a figure who is sometimes worshipped, sometimes feared but always respected. Sure, Rassilon is a complete dick but he was portrayed as being an utterly useless politician and an ineffectual leader. So he's kicked off the planet in a non-TARDIS with the High Council soon to follow ... even though we don't know all the High Council actually did anything wrong.

The Doctor's moves against Rassilon could very, very easily been an entire episode. Of the Doctor building up support, maybe dropping hints about Time War events. Exploring Gallifrey's culture and various workings. Maybe ending with Rassilon fleeing and the Doctor sitting in the big seat saying "now I can start the real work" or something like that.

The General was cool and I am forced to wonder what criminal charge there'd be for shooting a Time Lord so they have to regenerate. It's not really murder. GBH?

The Cloister Wraiths are a new touch and the faces on them did not look pleased to be there. Fear and pain. Nasty.
Cloister Wars was also a new reference.
Speaking of references, did Ashildur really bring up the half human thing again? NO ONE LIKES THAT IDEA. LET IT DIE.

Gallifrey looks a lot like Nevada. Yay for reusing sets!
Speaking of sets, I loved that TARDIS - it reminds me how cool the old control rooms were. Though, it should noted, the original console was green and not white.

Let's compare companion deaths. The first major one was Adric, where the Doctor merely said "Oh well, it's happened. Can't be changed." OTOH, now we have him going through 4 billion years of shit and overthrowing Rassilon, mixed with screwing up time. Sucks to be Adric.

[JLTucker]

Fine episode to me, and a great ending to the best season NuWho has had.

What I liked about it episode is how the Doctor's grief drove him mad. In fact, that grief created a gut-wrenching scenario that will always remain ambiguous: Did Clara really reverse the polarity on the memory wiping device, or did the Doctor always plan to erase his own recollection of Clara?

I cared not about the Time Lords (they look fucking ridiculous) and instead cared more about the personal level of the episode. Instead of some epic wank we received a character-driven episode that focused on the Doctor, his companion, how they complement one another, and how they destroy lives all for the thrill of time travel and adventures.

Good stuff. Can't wait for next season.

[Bedlam]

Actually I don't think it has ever actually been stated that the Time War Rassilon is the same as the founder of the Time Lords Rassilon. Either the names could just be the same or the current Rassilon took on the name of the founder to try and inspire his people.

[Tribble]

Jeez, I honestly thought Clara couldn't get any worse. She was already responsible for everything in the Doctor's life: encouraging him as a child, choosing the right Tardis for him, ensuring all of his victories, having the Time Lords give him a new set of regenerations etc. Did they really need to give her a Tardis and essentially make her immortal too??

Btw, where exactly is Gallifrey? Are they still in the pocket universe, or are they in the regular universe? If they are in the regular universe, how did they escape from the pocket universe? How were they able to break the stasis field? Why didn't other species (especially the Daleks) notice their return? Shouldn't have this caused a new Time War? Where was the Master in all this, and how did the Master escape from Gallifrey? Why did Rassilion regenerate? Oh, and why didn't the Doctor notice before now, since he has the ability to sense other Time Lords? That's jsut a few of the questions that have been left totally unanswered, let alone getting into the whole hybrid thing. I mean, jeez, I know Moffat has stated many times that continuity doesn't matter, but this feels like an ass-pull even by his standards.

The return of Gallifrey really needed to be a two-parter, and the focus should have been on the Time-Lords. It had such great potential. Instead, their return is almost treated like an afterthought, and it was once again the Clara Oswald show. It's times like this that I actually miss RTD.

[NecronLord]

Donald Sumpter's pathos-laden "I am Rassilon the Redeemer, Rassilon the Ressurected!" said like it means something strongly implies that he's meant to be the Rassilon the Great, in fairness. Sadly, these episodes aren't big on explaining things.

Basically I didn't like it, sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I wish someone would give them a directive that no ressurections are to be permitted in the series.

I really despise Clara's Mary-Sue status, now.

Btw, where exactly is Gallifrey? Are they still in the pocket universe, or are they in the regular universe? If they are in the regular universe, how did they escape from the pocket universe?

They escaped on their own, apparently. The Doctor tells Clara he didn't ask them how as it "would only make them feel clever."

How were they able to break the stasis field? Why didn't other species (especially the Daleks) notice their return?

Gallifrey is positioned at the 'end of the universe' to avoid notice.

Shouldn't have this caused a new Time War?

It may yet. But the daleks seem to have far less numbers than they had, and even they have a sense of self-preservation. The Citadel is rebuilt and Gallifrey's army appears strong, perhaps they fear it, if they have detected it.

Where was the Master in all this, and how did the Master escape from Gallifrey?

Unexplained?

Why did Rassilion regenerate?

Presumably the Master killed him and escaped.

Oh, and why didn't the Doctor notice before now, since he has the ability to sense other Time Lords? That's jsut a few of the questions that have been left totally unanswered, let alone getting into the whole hybrid thing. I mean, jeez, I know Moffat has stated many times that continuity doesn't matter, but this feels like an ass-pull even by his standards.

I entirely agree.

[Tribble]

It may yet. But the daleks seem to have far less numbers than they had, and even they have a sense of self-preservation. The Citadel is rebuilt and Gallifrey's army appears strong, perhaps they fear it, if they have detected it.

Here's the problem (and I'm not critiquing your response, but the stupidity of the plot). The whole point about the Time of the Doctor was that Gallifrey's return would cause practically every species in the universe to throw everything they have to try and destroy Gallifrey and maintain the status quo. This is compounded by the fact that many species (including the Daleks) have time travel. When they realise that Gallifrey has re-entered the universe one would assume that they would pinpoint the exact moment it happened and throw everything they have at them. As previous Doctors noted, Gallifrey might be able to withstand the Daleks, but its highly unlikely they'd be able to withstand a determined effort from everyone attacking all at once, especially if it starts the moment they re-appear on the scene. And don't forget that the Daleks were holding back during their final assault - they had breached Arcadia's sky trenches and could have simply launched planet-killer missiles and blown Gallifrey up. Apparently they were trying to capture the planet relatively intact. One would think they wouldn't hesitate to blow it up this time.

It wasn't so much the Doctor failing to find Gallifrey as it was his reluctance to being them back lest they get destroyed. You'd think the Time Lords would also realise the potential implications of what they were doing. Oh wait, they did - the whole point of broadcasting "Doctor Who?" to the universe in Time of the Doctor was so that the Doctor would speak his true name, letting them know that they had contacted the right universe and that it was safe to come back. The fact that Clara ended up speaking to them was a red-flag that it was far too dangerous to attempt a break-out, which is why they sent regeneration energy instead.

The logic behind this episode is that everyone is apparently too stupid to know what is going on, let alone figure out what to do about it, so no Time War. Which basically sums up Moffat's writing style, now that I think of it.

[DaveJB]

It's times like this that I actually miss RTD.

Hey, at least Moffat stopped at giving Clara a TARDIS - though personally I like to think it's actually Ashildr's TARDIS, and she's just letting Clara come along out of compassion and a desire for some company - RTD gave Rose a Doctor all of her own!

[Tribble]

It's times like this that I actually miss RTD.

Hey, at least Moffat stopped at giving Clara a TARDIS - though personally I like to think it's actually Ashildr's TARDIS, and she's just letting Clara come along out of compassion and a desire for some company - RTD gave Rose a Doctor all of her own!

Difference being, the 2nd Doctor was a least hinted at for a few seasons with the Doctor's hand. IIRC some of us were predicting that his hand would become a major plot point one day.

If Moffat had written that episode, it'd turn out that Rose cut off the Doctor's hand herself so that she could have her own Doctor, and the Doctor would just shrug and be totally cool with it and everything.