Avatar's Extended edition thoughts

[FaxModem1]

My thoughts:

So, I finally watched the extended cut of Avatar. It's....okay. Still flawed, but okay. On the plus side, it takes the black and white morality of the theatrical cut and makes it more gray and gray, with both the RDA and the Na'vi being at fault.

As I understand it, the relations went like this:

1. Humans come to Pandora.
2. For some reason, Na'Vi are unwilling to talk to non-Na'vi.
3. Earth won't let RDA exterminate the Na'Vi, as genocide is evil.(Duh)
4. Humans invent Avatars.
5. Humans start mining unobtainium, which is stated to be worth a lot, but all we really know about it is that it floats in pure form.(Sully is not a scientist)
6. Humans open up a school.
7. Neytiri's sister sets several bulldozers on fire for knocking down trees. It is unknown whether the vehicles were manned, had people escorting them, or were entirely drone operated. It is also unknown if the Na'Vi even know if the RDA wants the magic rocks, just that we are knocking down trees.
8. Sister runs to school, thinking mercenaries won't follow her there. This could mean that she thought Grace would protect her, it could also mean she thought the children and Grace would be great 'human shields'.
9. Mercenaries followed her to the school, and killed her for her actions.
10. School closes, as Na'Vi don't wish to talk to humans anymore. They now shoot humans on sight.
11.Sully comes to Pandora, gets lost, and is spared by magic dandelion.
12. Sully is not allowed to talk to tribe until he's actually a member of tribe, and is only allowed to live because they want to see how human warriors fight. I wonder how tribes talk to each other unless all ambassadors must take months being initiated into tribe.
13. Sully at no point informs everyone what the RDA is after, meaning that the Na'Vi have no way of knowing that the Sky People want the shiny rocks below their trees, not the trees itself.
14. Sully becomes member of tribe, and bones daughter instead of relaying important information that bulldozers are coming.
15. Bulldozers come, and Sully tells Na'vi that Sky People are evil and are coming to destroy their home. (In addition to not being a scientist, Sully is also not a great diplomat).
16. Na'Vi burn down bulldozers, and kill all humans guarding them. No mercy.(This was left out of the theatrical cut, as it would make the humans sympathetic)
17. Humans are aghast at the slaughter, and are unsure what to do. Quarritch pushes for burning down the tree on the condition that they tear gas the place, calling it 'humane'.
18. Home tree is destroyed, and several Na'vi are killed.
19. Sully and friends unite the tribes, and fight a war to defend the spirit tree against the RDA.

So, it's not a case of black and white, as presented in the theatrical cut, but gray on gray, with Quarritch the one who pushed the humans towards fighting the Na'vi, and Sully framing the RDA in as evil a light as possible. Selfridge and Quarritch are still rather villainous, with Selfridge's greed and Quarritch's bloodlust, but Sully's diplomacy is awful and the Na'vi have a rather xenophobic attitude, not helped by their unwillingness to ever talk to non-Avatar humans.

This is, by the by, ignoring the Pandorapedia, that says that humans need unobtainium in order to survive as a species(something to do with it helping in starship construction), something also not said in the movie due to how sympathetic it would make the human side. Without that, humans could just be using unobtainium to make floating dinner plates at expensive restaurants for all we know.

Some miscellaneous:

Sully doesn't need a breather while on Earth, yet mostly everyone else does while outside.

Tsu'tey insists that Sully kill him to become their new leader, claiming it is their way. So either the Na'vi kill those of their tribe who cannot fight, move, work or are a burden on the tribe, or there is a cultural tradition of the new war leader killing the old one when they can no longer do the job.

Earth, as a dying world with 'no green on it', has jungle warfare in Venezuela.

Earth is reintroducing extinct species back to the planet through cloning, such as the Bengal tiger, meaning that dying world is coming back slowly.

RDA cares about the bottom line as its highest priority, but does worry about bad PR. Not the killing of innocents, bad PR.

Crematoriums are warehouse sized, for maximum efficiency. We must either prefer increasing the carbon footprint via burning dead people to using dead bodies as compost for the growing of plants, even while the planet's atmosphere is so bad that people need masks to breathe outside.

Paper and cardboard are common enough for paperback books and coffins, meaning that there have to be some sort of paper industry on Earth.

[Q99]

Even with that, it's hard to not see the RDA as more in the wrong, considering they're the ones going to someone else's house and starting stuff.

13. Sully at no point informs everyone what the RDA is after, meaning that the Na'Vi have no way of knowing that the Sky People want the shiny rocks below their trees, not the trees itself.
14. Sully becomes member of tribe, and bones daughter instead of relaying important information that bulldozers are coming.
15. Bulldozers come, and Sully tells Na'vi that Sky People are evil and are coming to destroy their home. (In addition to not being a scientist, Sully is also not a great diplomat).

You know, I bet if Sully had half a day's training under Bren Cameron*, a whooole lot of fighting could be avoided...


*Ambassador to aliens in Foreigner series.

[FaxModem1]

Even with that, it's hard to not see the RDA as more in the wrong, considering they're the ones going to someone else's house and starting stuff.

Yeah, strip mining someone's home before hammering out a trade agreement or permission to even be there is rather wrong. But as stated, the RDA care more about the bottom line than how the PR looks.

[FaxModem1]

Another note is that the Na'Vi definitely wouldn't talk to the humans before all the bloodshed, as the Avatars were only created as a way to communicate with them. Otherwise, RDA wouldn't go to the trouble and expense of waiting years for shipping, and spending who knows how much R&D and whatever technology necessary to make biological copies of the Na'vi if they were willing to speak to humans sans the avatars. This makes the Na'vi rather bigoted and the RDA and the human race rather diplomatic and bending over backwards to try and secure mining rights for the Unobtainium.

Otherwise, the RDA would never have spent the money on it if Grace and company could communicate with the Na'vi in her human form wearing a breather suit and having an oxygen shelter in place and have negotiations.

[Q99]

Another note is that the Na'Vi definitely wouldn't talk to the humans before all the bloodshed, as the Avatars were only created as a way to communicate with them. Otherwise, RDA wouldn't go to the trouble and expense of waiting years for shipping, and spending who knows how much R&D and whatever technology necessary to make biological copies of the Na'vi if they were willing to speak to humans sans the avatars. This makes the Na'vi rather bigoted and the RDA and the human race rather diplomatic and bending over backwards to try and secure mining rights for the Unobtainium.

Otherwise, the RDA would never have spent the money on it if Grace and company could communicate with the Na'vi in her human form wearing a breather suit and having an oxygen shelter in place and have negotiations.

Still, there's nothing *obligating* them to talk to anyone. Giving the cold shoulder is not exactly a crime. The RDA was only being diplomatic to get something.

Also, I always wondered- what about just going after the floaty things? Or trying to scout areas where Na'vi aren't that still have deposits? It's still be mining someone else's world without permission, but it could avoid the conflict.

[FaxModem1]

Yeah, that's rather nonsensical, considering we see plains on the planet, and that would be much better mining territory than thick jungle full of predators. The floaty island things might be because it plays havoc with their sensors and equipment, and operating mining equipment in an electronics jamming field could be too costly.

As to the cold shoulder, that really depends on how expeditions to Pandora went before it became a full blown mining colony. At some point, a bunch of alien visitors coming by and trying to talk to you in your own language should warrant a response, whether telling them to piss off or welcoming them here, especially if they're trying to communicate with you on their purpose here. It's a bit hard to get the idea of what an alien race wants if all they do is give you the silent treatment at best, and shoot you and burn your vehicles at worst.

Did RDA start mining before running into the natives, or vice-versa?

If the former, it could be that the humans were trying to make up for the unintended mistakes and bad press they were getting. If the latter, the humans probably just shrugged their shoulders, deemed that the natives were apathetic about what they were doing and continued mining, but tried to educate themselves about the local wildlife and make good relations with their new neighbors, even though the Na'vi didn't like them being there.

[Grumman]

The plains are probably plains because they don't have much ore in them: too much ore and you get floating islands tearing themselves out of the ground and breaking up your relatively flat grasslands. On the other hand, mining the floating islands directly means having to worry about what happens when you separate the ore you want from the rock you're standing on - you don't want to create a fracture that sends a floating island plummeting to the ground with you on it.

[Solauren]

You know, considering there was a fucking FLYING MOUNTAIN RANGE because of all the ore/material in it, why did they bother with anywhere else anyway?

[Tribble]

You know, considering there was a fucking FLYING MOUNTAIN RANGE because of all the ore/material in it, why did they bother with anywhere else anyway?

Well, I'd imagine that when they removed the ore, the mountains would fall. Though I'm sure they could have come up with some way to remove just enough ore for a soft landing, leaving the mountain to fall, then mine the rest afterwards.

Of course, they may have just been worried about Terrorsaur


I miss that show.

[Q99]

All in all, if you're the visiter, it behoves you to work around the natives where possible if you can't work with. Even a few hostile encounters is a reason to go elsewhere, not bomb their homes.

Of course, they may have just been worried about Terrorsaur

I miss that show.

The IDW comics introduced a Beast Wars cybertronian colony planet recently...

[FaxModem1]

All in all, if you're the visiter, it behoves you to work around the natives where possible if you can't work with. Even a few hostile encounters is a reason to go elsewhere, not bomb their homes.

Which they did, even funding the Avatar program and opening up a school to try and make a dialogue. When that didn't work, they mined and kept away from the Na'vi, then found that the mother of all deposits was under the Hometree. RDA cared more about the bottom line than they did about inconveniencing the natives, so they moved their bulldozers to the hometree.

It was when Sully's failed diplomacy and his conviction that there was NOTHING that the Na'vi wanted along with his absolute refusal to explain that the humans wanted the rocks, not the tree itself. Along with Quarritch's idea of 'humane' treatment was teargassing people before blowing up their home instead of waiting a few weeks to try and get an agreement to mine under the tree.

Selfridge even tried to give him a shot, only for Quarritch to see Grace and Sully's Avatars tied to a tree with their throats about to be slit, he considered that 'Diplomacy failed' and began the attack. Which makes sense from Quarritch's battle hardened and warped point of view, if you send out people under a white flag to talk terms, and the other side's reaction is to tie them up and about to kill them, it's hard to establish a dialogue. That's not engaging in a dialogue, that's taking hostages/getting people ready for execution.

If the Na'vi had, at any point, known that the rocks were what the humans wanted, not pushing over trees, some deal could have been reached.
if the Na'Vi had, at any point, been willing to talk to Sky People when they weren't dressed in Avatar suits, some deal could have been reached.
If the Na'Vi had, at any point, said that their one condition was not knocking over our home, thanks, and leave it standing, and the RDA were willing to mine under them, a deal could have been reached. However, this one is conditional on one of the two above points happening, along with the RDA being willing to do underground mining instead of strip-mining the place, a deal could have been reached.
If Sully had not been spinning humans as the devil and wanting to destroy everything(which they didn't, they wanted access to the magic rock), the Na'Vi might have been more willing to talk.
If the RDA had sent out proper ambassadors, a deal might have been reached. Though, this might have already happened with failure, as the Na'vi are unwilling to talk to anyone who is not an Avatar, and even then, they consider them not worth talking to, as again, they had a shoot on sight policy.

[Adam Reynolds]

One element that seems odd to me is the fact that the RDA never considering making a trained diplomat an Avatar instead of a group of scientists. If they then found that the Navi only respected strength, they should have found a loyal ex-soldier with diplomatic experience(with their level of resources it shouldn't have been that hard).

Anyone would have been better than Jake and Augusitine. The problem with Jake is that he was likely the only person who would have betrayed humanity due to the fact that his real life was so lousy. The problem with Augustine was that she was interested in the wondrous properties of the planet itself rather than the magic rocks. While she was in a very real sense correct, looking at long term profits is not something a company like that could really do in that case. The two of them were the worst people to become involved in diplomacy because they were too sympathetic to the opposing side.

[Bedlam]

Wasn't the original idea to send Jake's brother? I don't know what skill set he had but he might have made a much better diplomat. Then he upped and died and they had the option of growing another avatar taking x time and x resources or send in Jake. They seemed to have taken the cheaper quicker option. Of course it would have made more sense to hedge their bets and clone up 2-3 diplomats in the first time in case something like this happened.

[FaxModem1]

Wasn't the original idea to send Jake's brother? I don't know what skill set he had but he might have made a much better diplomat. Then he upped and died and they had the option of growing another avatar taking x time and x resources or send in Jake. They seemed to have taken the cheaper quicker option. Of course it would have made more sense to hedge their bets and clone up 2-3 diplomats in the first time in case something like this happened.

Jake's brother was some kind of research scientist. But it probably would have been better for everyone all around if he had gone instead of Jake.

[FaxModem1]

Additional note: One of the books that Grace was teaching to the kids when the school was open was The Lorax, the book about people chopping down trees. This book might have flavored the talks between the Na'Vi and the humans in a worse way than intended, as while the Lorax is a great book about environmentalism and the perils of wrecking the environment for profit, teaching it to those who value their trees more than human lives might have incited the incident of Neytiri's sister burning down the bulldozers, as children will not know the difference between a piece of fiction and history, and might thought that was the RDA's plan for Pandora.

In addition, it does seem that Grace was also teaching the kids how their solar system works, as there was a model of it in the school.

[Q99]

Jake's brother was some kind of research scientist. But it probably would have been better for everyone all around if he had gone instead of Jake.

Avatar: Brother AU.

Brother goes, talks things out, discovers where to mine/not to mine, and everyone is happy. The end!

[Crazedwraith]

Why would the brother do better than any of the other scientists at talking to the Na'avi? He wouldn't run off like Jake and would have no better access to them than anyone else.

More likely the brother putters along doing more science things until the deposit under the home tree is descovered. Quarritch drives off the clan, with no Jake no one unites the clans, Pandora doesn't come alive to save the day. RDA wins.

[FaxModem1]

Why would the brother do better than any of the other scientists at talking to the Na'avi? He wouldn't run off like Jake and would have no better access to them than anyone else.

More likely the brother putters along doing more science things until the deposit under the home tree is descovered. Quarritch drives off the clan, with no Jake no one unites the clans, Pandora doesn't come alive to save the day. RDA wins.

For one thing, Jake Sully gave Quarritch all the structural weaknesses of the home tree, along with intel about how the Na'Vi operate there. If his brother were there, and just did the science thing, Quarritch might be more hesitant about attacking, as he wouldn't have proper intelligence about how to take down the Hometree, with Selfridge opting for looking for a more diplomatic solution, as it was Jake's own testimony that convinced both Quarritch and Selfridge that negotiating was pointless.

Thomas Sully(for that was his brother's name), would probably do the science thing, and if the dandelions had the same reaction if the science team ever wandered into Na'vi territory, they could try and strike a conversation with the tribe, or Selfridge eventually tries sending out a dedicated diplomat instead of a PTSD washed out Marine who doesn't follow orders since he knows they're going to the Hometree since sending out scientists hasn't worked.

It could go all sorts of ways, but most of them would probably go better than with a man whose only care is getting to use his legs again and chasing after a romantic relationship.

[Crazedwraith]

Why would the brother do better than any of the other scientists at talking to the Na'avi? He wouldn't run off like Jake and would have no better access to them than anyone else.

More likely the brother putters along doing more science things until the deposit under the home tree is descovered. Quarritch drives off the clan, with no Jake no one unites the clans, Pandora doesn't come alive to save the day. RDA wins.

For one thing, Jake Sully gave Quarritch all the structural weaknesses of the home tree, along with intel about how the Na'Vi operate there. If his brother were there, and just did the science thing, Quarritch might be more hesitant about attacking, as he wouldn't have proper intelligence about how to take down the Hometree, with Selfridge opting for looking for a more diplomatic solution, as it was Jake's own testimony that convinced both Quarritch and Selfridge that negotiating was pointless.

These factors will slow RDA down not stop them. The prime factors; the massive quantity of unobtainium under the home tree and selfridge/Quarritch's extreme greed and disregard for the Naavi are still in play. They'll eventually figure out negotiation is impossible because the Naavi won't negotiate and will kill any humans or avatars that show up to do so. And if he doesn't have such good data on the home tree Quarritch will either apply more dakka or come up with a different plan. (Tear gas the place until they abandon it. Go in with demo charges/ scanners to figure it of for themselves.

Thomas Sully(for that was his brother's name), would probably do the science thing, and if the dandelions had the same reaction if the science team ever wandered into Na'vi territory, they could try and strike a conversation with the tribe, or Selfridge eventually tries sending out a dedicated diplomat instead of a PTSD washed out Marine who doesn't follow orders since he knows they're going to the Hometree since sending out scientists hasn't worked.

It could go all sorts of ways, but most of them would probably go better than with a man whose only care is getting to use his legs again and chasing after a romantic relationship.

I figure it's mostly the opposite. Yes it could go better. But it's extremely unlikely by the time of the film's events roll around. Any professional diplomat is going to have a hell of a time even getting the Naavi to the table at that point, since they kill humans and avatars on sight. Again it was quite literal divine intervention that stopped them killing Jake and even then he was only allowed in so they could take the measure of an avatar warrier.

Why are we assuming a diplomat won't come to the same conclusion Jake did, we have nothing to offer them, and if he does come to terms would Selfridge even accept them? Selfridge didn't seem like he was going to make any concessions he just wanted them to get the Naavi to stop shooting at them and move off the unobtanium.

And if/when the RDA do turn nasty, the RDA are screwed with out Jake to rally the clans and plead to Pandora itself. I'd say Jake did pretty damn well considering he saved the planet and all.

[FaxModem1]

I think the RDA would actually be better off if Jake didn't rally the clans, as that seemed to be the cause of the battle of Soultree, and RDA wouldn't have been forced off the planet, and could resume unobtainium mining.

Jake also lacks imagination, as offering the Na'vi better bows, literature, a promise to spare the Hometree if the RDA just dig under it if the Na'Vi don't shoot them, promises to reclaim the land for Eywa after they're done, less invasive mining procedures, etc.

Remember, the Na'vi think the RDA just want to knock down trees, not take the rocks. A negotiation to take it back on the tree knocking and less invasive mining would probably be more acceptable to the Na'vi if they achieve some means of getting into talks with the Na'vi.

[Crazedwraith]

I think the RDA would actually be better off if Jake didn't rally the clans, as that seemed to be the cause of the battle of Soultree, and RDA wouldn't have been forced off the planet, and could resume unobtainium mining.

Jake also lacks imagination, as offering the Na'vi better bows, literature, a promise to spare the Hometree if the RDA just dig under it if the Na'Vi don't shoot them, promises to reclaim the land for Eywa after they're done, less invasive mining procedures, etc.

Remember, the Na'vi think the RDA just want to knock down trees, not take the rocks. A negotiation to take it back on the tree knocking and less invasive mining would probably be more acceptable to the Na'vi if they achieve some means of getting into talks with the Na'vi.

...WTF? Of course RDA would be better off, I literally said they would win if it wasn't for Jake in any circumstances. But the RDA winning is bad.

What makes you think the Na'vi want better bows or literature? The hometree thing is well after Jake gets involved and anyway, Selfridge is not going to go for less invasive mining as it would cut massive into his profit indexs not least from having to import new equipment to do it on the years long rocket ship circuit,

What makes you think the Naavi didn't know what the RDA was after? I hardly think Grace let them think they were just knocking trees over for shits and giggles.

[FaxModem1]

And if/when the RDA do turn nasty, the RDA are screwed with out Jake to rally the clans and plead to Pandora itself. I'd say Jake did pretty damn well considering he saved the planet and all.

This is your quote, also, it's more like the planet saved him and the Na'Vi.


As for Selfridge not wanting to do something to have access to the unobtainium, it would be rather fortuitous for him to reach a long-lasting agreement with the Na'vi and not facing a war with them, especially if the Na'vi are willing to co-exist while they mine. As I noted, Grace was teaching them the Lorax,which is all about people destroying trees. And there is never any mention from the Na'Vi side about them wanting the rocks, only that they are destroying the trees.

if Tommy Sully isn't as attached to the Na'vi, as short tempered as Grace, or as psychotic as Quarritch, they might be able to get Selfridge to agree.

As for bows, we've made advances with bows that can shoot farther and with less effort with modern day compound bows. 22nd century materials for bows could probably shoot farther, putting hunters at less risk, and leading to less causes for euthanasia when one of them gets too injured. Though, that is dependent on the Na'Vi seeing the practicality of this and not being too mired in their bows production. As for literature, the kids seemed to at least enjoy the Lorax.

[FaxModem1]

What makes you think the Na'vi want better bows or literature? The hometree thing is well after Jake gets involved and anyway, Selfridge is not going to go for less invasive mining as it would cut massive into his profit indexs not least from having to import new equipment to do it on the years long rocket ship circuit,

Also, going by the Avatar wiki, Hell's Gate has the capability to make new machinery and other items through their Stereolithography plant, depending on what blueprints they have available, meaning that if desired, they could make the less invasive equipment if they have the proper blueprints.

[Crazedwraith]

And if/when the RDA do turn nasty, the RDA are screwed with out Jake to rally the clans and plead to Pandora itself. I'd say Jake did pretty damn well considering he saved the planet and all.

This is your quote, also, it's more like the planet saved him and the Na'Vi.

Whoops, my fault there. That should have read 'the Na'vi are screwed without Jake to rally the clans and plead to Pandora itself.' I'm arguing RDA = bad. Naavi = Good here. Which the films goes some length to demonstrate.

As for Selfridge not wanting to do something to have access to the unobtainium, it would be rather fortuitous for him to reach a long-lasting agreement with the Na'vi and not facing a war with them, especially if the Na'vi are willing to co-exist while they mine. As I noted, Grace was teaching them the Lorax,which is all about people destroying trees. And there is never any mention from the Na'Vi side about them wanting the rocks, only that they are destroying the trees.

So.. what? Your evidence that the Naavi knew nothing about what RDA want and thought they just wanted to kill trees is based on.... one piece of background set dressing that's not even in the original film?

The Naavi aren't blind. They can see the gigantic open cast mines that obviously dig far deeper than necessary just to kill trees.

if Tommy Sully isn't as attached to the Na'vi, as short tempered as Grace, or as psychotic as Quarritch, they might be able to get Selfridge to agree.

Selfridge would have no reason to listen to Tommy because he wouldn't have the same access to the Na'vi, Jake had. The combination of divine intervention and wanting to see a solider in action that I mentioned before. Tommy's avatar would be either killed on sight or ignored like Grace was.

As for bows, we've made advances with bows that can shoot farther and with less effort with modern day compound bows. 22nd century materials for bows could probably shoot farther, putting hunters at less risk, and leading to less causes for euthanasia when one of them gets too injured. Though, that is dependent on the Na'Vi seeing the practicality of this and not being too mired in their bows production. As for literature, the kids seemed to at least enjoy the Lorax.

The Na'vi's bows are perfectly adequate for the live they lead. And they certainly don't need bows that can shoot further. They need to get up close for the very precise culturally acceptable killshot remember? Likewise offworld materials would mess with the circle of life thing.

They might like books sure. Not enough to let their world get flayed for it.

What makes you think the Na'vi want better bows or literature? The hometree thing is well after Jake gets involved and anyway, Selfridge is not going to go for less invasive mining as it would cut massive into his profit indexs not least from having to import new equipment to do it on the years long rocket ship circuit,

Also, going by the Avatar wiki, Hell's Gate has the capability to make new machinery and other items through their Stereolithography plant, depending on what blueprints they have available, meaning that if desired, they could make the less invasive equipment if they have the proper blueprints.

Then why hadn't he already? Likely, The bottom line. Too expensive. Not enough profit margin. Reconfiguring for that would take time and hence lost profits. They'd have to design and built all the equipment for the less invasive mining, presumably bring in material for the stereolithography thing, All lost time, lost profits. Selfridge is not going to go for that.

Plus according that same wiki the mining machine was brought in from Earth, not created locally. So there are limits.

[FaxModem1]

As for Selfridge not wanting to do something to have access to the unobtainium, it would be rather fortuitous for him to reach a long-lasting agreement with the Na'vi and not facing a war with them, especially if the Na'vi are willing to co-exist while they mine. As I noted, Grace was teaching them the Lorax,which is all about people destroying trees. And there is never any mention from the Na'Vi side about them wanting the rocks, only that they are destroying the trees.

So.. what? Your evidence that the Naavi knew nothing about what RDA want and thought they just wanted to kill trees is based on.... one piece of background set dressing that's not even in the original film?

The Naavi aren't blind. They can see the gigantic open cast mines that obviously dig far deeper than necessary just to kill trees.

The Na'vi avoid the humans. They attack their bulldozers because they knock down their trees. The RDA and the Na'Vi generally shoot each other on sight, so there may not be enough transfer or information. The Na'Vi also seem to be rather ignorant in how Sky People operate, in several ways. There's also never a mention in the film, theatrical or extended, of the Na'vi commenting on the unobtainium. It's just as possible that they DON'T KNOW what the humans are there for. Sully sure as hell didn't tell them. And we don't know if Grace did, as she was teaching the children language and basic science and literature.

if Tommy Sully isn't as attached to the Na'vi, as short tempered as Grace, or as psychotic as Quarritch, they might be able to get Selfridge to agree.

Selfridge would have no reason to listen to Tommy because he wouldn't have the same access to the Na'vi, Jake had. The combination of divine intervention and wanting to see a solider in action that I mentioned before. Tommy's avatar would be either killed on sight or ignored like Grace was.

Considering that Tommy's Avatar was Jake's Avatar, as we don't know what caused Eywa to pick him, the dandelion effect may well happen, leading to Ney'tiri being curious and wanting to meet him.

As for bows, we've made advances with bows that can shoot farther and with less effort with modern day compound bows. 22nd century materials for bows could probably shoot farther, putting hunters at less risk, and leading to less causes for euthanasia when one of them gets too injured. Though, that is dependent on the Na'Vi seeing the practicality of this and not being too mired in their bows production. As for literature, the kids seemed to at least enjoy the Lorax.

The Na'vi's bows are perfectly adequate for the live they lead. And they certainly don't need bows that can shoot further. They need to get up close for the very precise culturally acceptable killshot remember? Likewise offworld materials would mess with the circle of life thing.

They might like books sure. Not enough to let their world get flayed for it. [/quote]


Considering the lives they lead, the ability to make more accurate and stealthier shots, then make the necessary prayer to Eywa would be something they very much would appreciate. After all, loss of one's usefulness is death, remember? Better to be able to prevent that. And again, I'm noting a underground mining followed by reclamation campaign, not a knocking down their homes in exchange for Stephen King campaign.

What makes you think the Na'vi want better bows or literature? The hometree thing is well after Jake gets involved and anyway, Selfridge is not going to go for less invasive mining as it would cut massive into his profit indexs not least from having to import new equipment to do it on the years long rocket ship circuit,

Also, going by the Avatar wiki, Hell's Gate has the capability to make new machinery and other items through their Stereolithography plant, depending on what blueprints they have available, meaning that if desired, they could make the less invasive equipment if they have the proper blueprints.

Then why hadn't he already? Likely, The bottom line. Too expensive. Not enough profit margin. Reconfiguring for that would take time and hence lost profits. They'd have to design and built all the equipment for the less invasive mining, presumably bring in material for the stereolithography thing, All lost time, lost profits. Selfridge is not going to go for that.

Plus according that same wiki the mining machine was brought in from Earth, not created locally. So there are limits.

Beforehand, they didn't have any negotiations with the Na'Vi, or anyone dedicated to making a trade. Sully cared too much about getting to party with Ney'tiri, and Grace was too absorbed in learning about how Pandora and the Na'vi worked. We don't know about Tommy, but a dedicated diplomat or someone who was objective, which Grace even admitted she wasn't, might have thought of it.

Yes, there are limits, and Selfridge very well may say no. But he was willing to give Sully a chance to come to sort sort of accord, even an hour before Hometree was attacked and after the Na'Vi had gutted the men guarding the bulldozers, but Quarritch overrode that with the seeing of Sully and Grace about to get their throats slit. But if they can get the Na'Vi to the table, which I'll admit is questionable, they may be willing to focus on their current mines until the new equipment or they can fabricate it at Hell's Gate.

Also, it's probably a safe bet that new equipment is cheaper than a war with the planet's natives.