SF with multiple 'Federations'

[Q99]

We all know the drill- In space SF, there's often one multi-species 'Federation'/alliance/whatever, and then most of the other polities are mono-species. You've got your multiple-species united, and then you've got your Klingons, your mono-species (or effectively monospecies) Empires, but very rarely do you see two or more different alliances of species as competing civilizations.


And yes, the Dominion from Star Trek is an example

[The Romulan Republic]

Off the top of my head, both the Republic and Confederacy in Star Wars were multi-species factions.

[Starglider]

Interstellar Concordium in the Starfleet Battles universe was a good example, it pretty much was the UFP but with no humans and no prime directive, they invaded the Alpha Quadrant out of a (mostly) altruistic desire to pacify the region after all the wars that happened earlier in the SFB canon.

[Adam Reynolds]

One interesting example in this respect is the various mercenary groups in Mass Effect. While usually portrayed as highly immoral, they are often rather inclusionist. We especially see this in Omega in Mass Effect 3 in which Aria's army features nearly every major race in the galaxy.

Though the main powers are all extremely speciesist, falling almost entirely on racial lines. Though if you count the Citadel Council as a single power Mass Effect is largely unipolar, such that there couldn't be any other possible Federation.

In defense of the powers of Mass Effect, differing biology makes mixed race units problematic. Turians and quarians eat chemically different food than everyone else, salarians barely sleep, krogan can't go very long without some form of combat, ect. Only the asari would really intergrate well with others, being genetically engineered to do exactly that.

[Starglider]

Though the main powers are all extremely speciesist, falling almost entirely on racial lines.

Oh come now, the reapers aren't that speciest. Sure they have some standards about which species get to be harvested and which just get to be cyber zombie drones, but each of the hundreds of large reapers came from a distinct species, and everyone gets to be included one way or another

[Q99]

Yes, Mass Effect can be counted as either a bunch of individual races, with grouping mostly happening to the side, or a single big Federation that covers everyone.

There's a couple out there like that.

Interstellar Concordium in the Starfleet Battles universe was a good example, it pretty much was the UFP but with no humans and no prime directive, they invaded the Alpha Quadrant out of a (mostly) altruistic desire to pacify the region after all the wars that happened earlier in the SFB canon.

Oh yea.

And then Omega sector had the Maesrons as the only multi-species Federation... not counting the bit of Federation (+some Klingons and Orions) pulled over from Alpha Sector, who in turn landed in the Maesrons ^^

Interesting how all three developed out-of-contact with each other and then met later, though. I think there'd be potential in a universe where species had choices of federations when coming up....

[Simon_Jester]

One interesting example in this respect is the various mercenary groups in Mass Effect. While usually portrayed as highly immoral, they are often rather inclusionist. We especially see this in Omega in Mass Effect 3 in which Aria's army features nearly every major race in the galaxy.

Yes, but they aren't armies, they're not civilizations, they're just large organizations.

Also, nitpick:

In defense of the powers of Mass Effect, differing biology makes mixed race units problematic. Turians and quarians eat chemically different food than everyone else.

...And from each other, since quarians live in environmental isolation suits and apparently eat carefully sterilized pastes and smoothies through a straw. A turian could probably live on quarian food, at least with some nutrient suppliments, but I doubt the reverse is true. A quarian eating what turians normally eat would probably be dead of allergies or incapacitated by a infections of the GI tract in short order, and that's assuming you peel off every trace of those metalliferous skins, rinds, and so on.
_____________________

More generally, if you want an example you can go all the way back to the founding roots of interstellar space opera: Dr. Edward E. Smith's Lensman setting. "Civilization" and "Boskone" have a definite 'good' and 'evil' thing going, but they're both very broad, multi-species polities with a commendable acceptance of diversity of physiology and philosophical outlook.

Civilization seems to be just... totally indifferent to species as long as you adhere to their consensus values in some recognizable way. You can be a frigid-blooded poison-breather native to a planet like Pluto, who considers cowardice a virtue, and still be welcome at the top echelons of a human command structure who values reckless courage above almost all other traits- as long as you get the job done in a way that earns their respect.

Boskone is all about iron meritocracy and hierarchical domination, but within that hierarchy, any being can rise as far as their talents and ruthlessness permit. Once again, it really doesn't matter who or what you are as long as you're willing to sell your metaphorical grandmother for greater success and power. Sure, the top positions are pretty much locked down by a few species of super-beings with greater intelligence and natural aptitudes than any near-human can hope for, but they came by that dominant status honestly, through the ability to beat the pants off of any and all challengers. No Boskonian entity can claim to rule through innate superiority without being able to back that claim up.

You can accuse them of almost anything but speciesism, really.

[Batman]

The Perryverse had multispecies entities aplenty, though a lot of them tended to be dominated by a single species. Arkon's Great Empire, the human/Arkon United Empire, the Solarian Empire, GAVÖK, the Galaktikum, and that's just for the Milky Way.

[Q99]

More generally, if you want an example you can go all the way back to the founding roots of interstellar space opera: Dr. Edward E. Smith's Lensman setting. "Civilization" and "Boskone" have a definite 'good' and 'evil' thing going, but they're both very broad, multi-species polities with a commendable acceptance of diversity of physiology and philosophical outlook.

Civilization seems to be just... totally indifferent to species as long as you adhere to their consensus values in some recognizable way. You can be a frigid-blooded poison-breather native to a planet like Pluto, who considers cowardice a virtue, and still be welcome at the top echelons of a human command structure who values reckless courage above almost all other traits- as long as you get the job done in a way that earns their respect.

Boskone is all about iron meritocracy and hierarchical domination, but within that hierarchy, any being can rise as far as their talents and ruthlessness permit. Once again, it really doesn't matter who or what you are as long as you're willing to sell your metaphorical grandmother for greater success and power. Sure, the top positions are pretty much locked down by a few species of super-beings with greater intelligence and natural aptitudes than any near-human can hope for, but they came by that dominant status honestly, through the ability to beat the pants off of any and all challengers. No Boskonian entity can claim to rule through innate superiority without being able to back that claim up.

You can accuse them of almost anything but speciesism, really.

Ah yes, Lensman.


For being right out the box, it sure got a heck of a lot right.

[Adam Reynolds]

Yes, but they aren't armies, they're not civilizations, they're just large organizations.

My point was that it is interesting that the lawless mercenaries were far more inclusionist than that national miltiaries of various sorts, not that Mass Effect was actually an example of this idea at the nation state level(unless one counts the Citadel Council).

...And from each other, since quarians live in environmental isolation suits and apparently eat carefully sterilized pastes and smoothies through a straw. A turian could probably live on quarian food, at least with some nutrient suppliments, but I doubt the reverse is true. A quarian eating what turians normally eat would probably be dead of allergies or incapacitated by a infections of the GI tract in short order, and that's assuming you peel off every trace of those metalliferous skins, rinds, and so on.

Tali(the main quarian in the games) actually eats turian food on numerous occasions, and gets drunk on turian brandy repeatedly(if one counts the Citadel DLC) in ME3. She references filtering the alcohol as she is drinking it. Also in the Citadel DLC, she drunkenly eats amino cheese and also filters it through her suit, though she mentions that it would have been fatal had she not filtered it out of her system. We also see another quarian on pilgrimage mentioning that she eats at a turian shelter. So presumably all quarains have the ability to filter food built into their suits.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

We all know the drill- In space SF, there's often one multi-species 'Federation'/alliance/whatever, and then most of the other polities are mono-species. You've got your multiple-species united, and then you've got your Klingons, your mono-species (or effectively monospecies) Empires, but very rarely do you see two or more different alliances of species as competing civilizations.


And yes, the Dominion from Star Trek is an example

Star Fleet Battles' universe sees at least four multi-species empires squaring off against each other(five, if one counts the Gorn Confederation):The Feds, the Klingons(who have subject races of several species other than TOS-style Klingons actively serving in the Klingon military), the Interstellar Concordium, and the WYNs.

You also have the Orion pirate cartels, who are also multi-species concerns, as well as the Lyrans and Kzintis, who have subject races of their own, though they are confined to their homeworlds by their respective overlords.

[Q99]

Star Fleet Battles' universe sees at least four multi-species empires squaring off against each other(five, if one counts the Gorn Confederation):The Feds, the Klingons(who have subject races of several species other than TOS-style Klingons actively serving in the Klingon military), the Interstellar Concordium, and the WYNs.

You also have the Orion pirate cartels, who are also multi-species concerns, as well as the Lyrans and Kzintis, who have subject races of their own, though they are confined to their homeworlds by their respective overlords.

Though the Klingons and Gorn are strongly dominated by a single species, at the least. They may have species under them, but the others have a far more limited presence.

Hm, I did forget about the WYNs, a 'we're all hiding from the other powers' group does sometimes lead to great diversity ^^

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Reason I didn't really consider the Gorn, as the Grey, Green,and Brown Scales are all part of the same race, as the surviving Paravians(?) fucked off to the Omega Sector to cause trouble there.

As for the ethnic Klingons, yes, it is true none of their subjects will ever become one of the Emperor's Paladins, let alone Emperor, but, the Dunkars do occupy many high-level positions within the Klingon hierarchy(they are considered second in status only to the ethnic Klingons themselves) and at least one Slirdarian(Kobol of the Rock)became a general officer in the Klingon ground forces, though that was due to the campaign in question(against the Kzinti)being particularly noted for its brutality.

And, the WYNs. I'll concede that their strength comes from a diversity of beings either no one else wants, or everyone else wants dead, and many SFB players see them as the comic relief of the Star Fleet Universe. But, they're full of suprises, especially with the Radiation Zone on their side.

[Q99]

And, the WYNs. I'll concede that their strength comes from a diversity of beings either no one else wants, or everyone else wants dead, and many SFB players see them as the comic relief of the Star Fleet Universe. But, they're full of suprises, especially with the Radiation Zone on their side.

Agreed, I find 'em pretty fun ^^ And regardless of circumstances, they're the type of civilization the thread is about!