nuBSG vs Wing Commander (movie)

[LastShadow]

So title says it all, nuBSG vs Wing Commander, for the sake of this argument, Roslin remained president, they didnt stay at that miserable little planet, so the Pegasus is still in play.

The final set of jumps takes them into Wing Commanders earth, does an initial fight breakout between the Colonials and the Terran Confederation? Who would win in that situation, Clearly the Battlestars are heavily outnumbered, but can take one hell of a beating. We all know those ships get beat like a rented gong and just keep trucking.

Would they clash initially and then work together using each others tactics and build styles to improve each others lives and tech?

Would the Cylons and Kilrathi join forces or would the war split into multiple fronts as the Cylons and Kilrathi go to war with each other and the Colonial/Terran forces?

I picked this topic as my first, mostly due to something i have thought about a lot, without many people to actually talk to about it. But there are also major similarities in strengths and weaknesses between the two series, Thins like ballistic style weaponry, fighter combat, carrier type ships, a relentless large opposing force.

For those unfamiliar with Wing Commander, here is the Wiki link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Comm ... franchise), this covers the basics, and by basics i mean extreme overview basics. I personally have never played the games, but i liked the original run animated series, and the movie so i will be basing much of anything i say on those.

For my part i think there would be an initial tense standoff between the Colonial fleet and the Terrans, mainly due to a very strange fleet suddenly popping into the system, but since they dont resemble the Kilrathi too much they will attempt to make communications possible and then work together. For the Cylons and Kilrathi i believe they will fight each other, primarily due to the fact that the main mouthpieces for the Cylons look human, they will fight them thinking they are infact some type of Terran force.

Discuss.

[SilverDragonRed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Comm ... anchise%29 working link

Question: Do the 'carriers' in Wing Commander have to go to the front line before launching their parasite craft, or can they just sit back and project power from a safe distance?

[LastShadow]

well as the movie generally centers around the carrier and its forces its usually right out front. But generally hangs back if it can. So in a fleet setting i think they would hang back and churn out their fighters, but that's basically an assumption, though admittedly one i would use if i were to write a fanfic for this.

For the purpose of this argument, carrier type craft would be part of a fleet, even though they are more carrier/destroyer hybrids, capable of doing their fair share of damage on their own.

[FaxModem1]

I think the Colonial fleet will be rather aghast at how the Confederation treat their pilots, even going so far as to deny that they exist after death. It's rather amazing that the Terran Confederation morale doesn't break apart. There's also the weird mystical bull crap that the Terrans have with their 'pilgrims', who can plot pathways into space and are considered non-human as a result. While the Colonials have a huge bigotry against the Cylons, they might find the Terran bigotry for non-Terran humans alienating.

The Wing Commander film was just terrible overall, and its changes from the source material worsened the product.

[LastShadow]

I think the Colonial fleet will be rather aghast at how the Confederation treat their pilots, even going so far as to deny that they exist after death. It's rather amazing that the Terran Confederation morale doesn't break apart. There's also the weird mystical bull crap that the Terrans have with their 'pilgrims', who can plot pathways into space and are considered non-human as a result. While the Colonials have a huge bigotry against the Cylons, they might find the Terran bigotry for non-Terran humans alienating.

The Wing Commander film was just terrible overall, and its changes from the source material worsened the product.

I definitely see your point there, theological differences, along with differences in worldview would be tough to reconcile. But in opposing view of that, would they really notice, at least right away?

I think by the time that those specific types of issues would come up months later, and maybe thats a ship specific thing, as in not recognized by the primary government.

But the denial of ever having lived is more of a coping mechanism, than a true denial of them ever having been there, its not like they are scrubbed from existence by the government itself. At least, thats the way i interpreted it. The Galactica crew has their own ways of coping themselves, heavy drinking, frequent fraking, but also with the extreme lack of new people, they have to treasure every moment and every friend lost.

In a war of attrition, you find ways to cope anyway you can. I think in the long run, the views of the Colonials (not to mention the different types of technology) would alter the perceptions of the Terrans. Eventually leading them to be more hopeful.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

As to whether the Colonials and the Confed will go hot the moment they meet, it all comes down to a matter of personalities, and the time in the Wing Commander verse that this takes place.

Kilrathi War, Tolwyn in any position of influence: Oh, yes, there will be blood.
Post-Kilrathi War, Tolwyn in any position of influence: Oh, yes, there will be blood.
WC Prophecy with Christopher Blair in charge: Let's try being friends first, before we open fire.
Any WC era, where Paladin has a say in the matter: Blair, and possibly Angel, are sent to investigate the Colonials to see if they have any ill intent.

If it came down to a fight, could the Galactica and the Pegasus take on the Confed/Border Worlds?!

If it's the Confed, and their main-line carriers(Tiger's Claw, Concordia, Victory, any of the Lexington- class, any of the Vesuvius-class, or, Gods help the poor bastards, the Midway), the Adamas, father and son, are well and truly frakked, especially given the Colonials would be facing full carrier battle groups, while all they have are the two battlestars. It gets worse, if they either have to face off against Midway, which is designed to be a full carrier battle group by herself, or if Tolwyn has another Behemoth-class ship tucked away somewhere, and brings it into play.

While the latter is a glass cannon, that big laser will still be able to torch at least one of the battlestars, before the other one gets its licks in, assuming the Confed utterly fails to protect the ship, as they failed to protect the Behemoth.

As to the Border Worlds, Galactica and Pegasus should be able to hold their own against any Border Worlds warships, assuming the Border Worlds don't immediately try to seek an alliance with Roslin against the Confed, and assuming Tolwyn doesn't have his forces pull a false-flag op against the Colonials to get them fighting with the Border Worlds, as part of his greater agenda to seize control of the Confed.

Then, there's the possibility of the Kilrathi allying with the Cylons. During the Kilrathi War, any such alliance is not entirely beyond the realm of possibility, but won't last long, as the Kilrathi are as proudly xenophobic as the Toasters are biophobic; they will already be plotting to turn on one another even from the moment they sign off on any potential alliance.

Though, it's equally possible that the Cats, arrogant as they are, won't see the need for allying with the Cylons, since, throughout much of the war, they've got the Confed on the ropes, and even when the war starts turning against them, their arrogance will still keep them from throwing in with the Cylons, even if the Colonials and the Confed join forces, as it is only two battlestars and 50,000 more humans we're discussing here. How much significance could they possibly be to the Confed's war effort?

Post-Kilrathi War: After Blair destroyed Kilrath with the tremblor bomb, the fight went out of most of the surviving Kilrath, with the exception of scattered bands of warriors who turned to piracy. The Cylons might find allies amongst them.

[Terralthra]

Yeah, can we ignore the movie and go with the games/novels instead? They were far superior (and more internally consistent).

Also, it's Temblor bomb, not tremblor.

[LastShadow]

Yeah, can we ignore the movie and go with the games/novels instead? They were far superior (and more internally consistent).

Also, it's Temblor bomb, not tremblor.

As i said, im not very familiar with the games or novels, though i may look into the novels as i need more things to read as my Star Wars EU has all but disappeared.

But you can use any references you would like, as long as you use as much detail as possible, and maybe drop me a link to where i can find more on line information about some of those things.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Yeah, can we ignore the movie and go with the games/novels instead? They were far superior (and more internally consistent).

Also, it's Temblor bomb, not tremblor.

So, it is. Thanks.

My understanding is the games, novels, Wing Commander Academy, and the(mediocre at best)movie are all part of the WC canon, even if they're all inconsistent with one another, so all of them have to be taken into consideration in any comparison with GINO.

And, for the record, the ability to withstand the heat of atmospheric re-entry(which the Galactica was unable to do without damage to herself)and the ability to sustain a blast from a coherent beam of energy are two different things. Just in case someone trots out the GINO equivalent of the "no lasers" argument.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

The best of the WC wikis I've found.

There's also this link to the Wing Commander CIC website.

[LastShadow]

As to whether the Colonials and the Confed will go hot the moment they meet, it all comes down to a matter of personalities, and the time in the Wing Commander verse that this takes place.

Kilrathi War, Tolwyn in any position of influence: Oh, yes, there will be blood.
Post-Kilrathi War, Tolwyn in any position of influence: Oh, yes, there will be blood.
WC Prophecy with Christopher Blair in charge: Let's try being friends first, before we open fire.
Any WC era, where Paladin has a say in the matter: Blair, and possibly Angel, are sent to investigate the Colonials to see if they have any ill intent.

If it came down to a fight, could the Galactica and the Pegasus take on the Confed/Border Worlds?!

If it's the Confed, and their main-line carriers(Tiger's Claw, Concordia, Victory, any of the Lexington- class, any of the Vesuvius-class, or, Gods help the poor bastards, the Midway), the Adamas, father and son, are well and truly frakked, especially given the Colonials would be facing full carrier battle groups, while all they have are the two battlestars. It gets worse, if they either have to face off against Midway, which is designed to be a full carrier battle group by herself, or if Tolwyn has another Behemoth-class ship tucked away somewhere, and brings it into play.

While the latter is a glass cannon, that big laser will still be able to torch at least one of the battlestars, before the other one gets its licks in, assuming the Confed utterly fails to protect the ship, as they failed to protect the Behemoth.

As to the Border Worlds, Galactica and Pegasus should be able to hold their own against any Border Worlds warships, assuming the Border Worlds don't immediately try to seek an alliance with Roslin against the Confed, and assuming Tolwyn doesn't have his forces pull a false-flag op against the Colonials to get them fighting with the Border Worlds, as part of his greater agenda to seize control of the Confed.

Then, there's the possibility of the Kilrathi allying with the Cylons. During the Kilrathi War, any such alliance is not entirely beyond the realm of possibility, but won't last long, as the Kilrathi are as proudly xenophobic as the Toasters are biophobic; they will already be plotting to turn on one another even from the moment they sign off on any potential alliance.

Though, it's equally possible that the Cats, arrogant as they are, won't see the need for allying with the Cylons, since, throughout much of the war, they've got the Confed on the ropes, and even when the war starts turning against them, their arrogance will still keep them from throwing in with the Cylons, even if the Colonials and the Confed join forces, as it is only two battlestars and 50,000 more humans we're discussing here. How much significance could they possibly be to the Confed's war effort?

Post-Kilrathi War: After Blair destroyed Kilrath with the tremblor bomb, the fight went out of most of the surviving Kilrath, with the exception of scattered bands of warriors who turned to piracy. The Cylons might find allies amongst them.

Thats very very well thought out, and i highly appreciate it.

Now coming across basically anything in decent numbers except solitary ships the Battlestars would get stomped, as much as i like both those ships, and as much of a beating as they can take they are grossly outnumbered most of the time.

Now as for what the Colonials could bring to the table, because clearly they cant bolster the forces of the Terrans, would be trade-offs in tech. Like highly maneuverable alternate fighter types with (in my opinion) a superior launch/land platform for said fighters. Not to mention what really honestly appears to be space faring vessels that do not require fuel. The colonials go a loooong way with a decent sized fleet without refueling, they talk about replenishing water a lot but never fuel. This in and of itself could be a huge boon to the Terrans.

The Terrans could also learn a lot about Mobile sustainability from the Colonials, especially from the Pegasus, while she is not a high speed production facility she can build new ships and parts, which would be a pretty big boon in long operations.

I mean lets be honest the Tiger claws launch/land setup is pretty bad and leaves her extremely vulnerable. But they could also benefit from trading off jump drives and computer hardware, or at least partly. Th unique way the Confeds calculate and achieve their jumps could greatly improve the jump times and abilities of the Colonials.

I mean its all pretty much wild speculation on my part due to the fact that i honestly know very little compared to people who have read the novels and played the games. I mean i know a fair enough amount about nBSG, but with my knowledge of WC limited to the movie and animated series, well im a tad lacking so to speak.

[LastShadow]

The best of the WC wikis I've found.

There's also this link to the Wing Commander CIC website.

Thank you for that, ill read over them later tonight when i get the time!

[LastShadow]

Yeah, can we ignore the movie and go with the games/novels instead? They were far superior (and more internally consistent).

Also, it's Temblor bomb, not tremblor.

So, it is. Thanks.

My understanding is the games, novels, Wing Commander Academy, and the(mediocre at best)movie are all part of the WC canon, even if they're all inconsistent with one another, so all of them have to be taken into consideration in any comparison with GINO.

And, for the record, the ability to withstand the heat of atmospheric re-entry(which the Galactica was unable to do without damage to herself)and the ability to sustain a blast from a coherent beam of energy are two different things. Just in case someone trots out the GINO equivalent of the "no lasers" argument.

The one thing i have to admit, while she took damage from that, it was gutsy, ballsy and all manners of cool looking. Plus Adama rammed that big base/ship in that nebula too, adama has a pair of adamantium balls, i swear.

But you are totally correct she couldn't with stand laser damage, whether or not she would be highly susceptible could be a matter of some minor debate, it would definitely melt armor and hull plating off at the very least. Blow holes in the outer hull too, but she does have that interior hull to contend with, and each section is capable of being very well sealed off from the next, probably why they can take those beatings.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

But the denial of ever having lived is more of a coping mechanism, than a true denial of them ever having been there, its not like they are scrubbed from existence by the government itself.

Correct. It's one of many coping mechanisms combat pilots/aircrews have used to deal with the loss of squadron mates, since planes were first used in combat.

You can see another example of this in fiction in Dan Abnett's excellent Black Library(Warhammer 40K)novel Double Eagle, in the passage where Bree Jagdea delivers her condolences to the 101st Apostles for the loss of one of their pilots.

[LastShadow]

But the denial of ever having lived is more of a coping mechanism, than a true denial of them ever having been there, its not like they are scrubbed from existence by the government itself.

Correct. It's one of many coping mechanisms combat pilots/aircrews have used to deal with the loss of squadron mates, since planes were first used in combat.

You can see another example of this in fiction in Dan Abnett's excellent Black Library(Warhammer 40K)novel Double Eagle, in the passage where Bree Jagdea delivers her condolences to the 101st Apostles for the loss of one of their pilots.

Glad we can agree on that, maybe ill check out that book. I am always looking for new books to read.

[Terralthra]

Thats very very well thought out, and i highly appreciate it.

Now coming across basically anything in decent numbers except solitary ships the Battlestars would get stomped, as much as i like both those ships, and as much of a beating as they can take they are grossly outnumbered most of the time.

Now as for what the Colonials could bring to the table, because clearly they cant bolster the forces of the Terrans, would be trade-offs in tech. Like highly maneuverable alternate fighter types with (in my opinion) a superior launch/land platform for said fighters. Not to mention what really honestly appears to be space faring vessels that do not require fuel. The colonials go a loooong way with a decent sized fleet without refueling, they talk about replenishing water a lot but never fuel. This in and of itself could be a huge boon to the Terrans.

Did you miss the episode where the crew and workforce of the tylium refinery ship went on strike and Adm. Adama treated it as a mutiny and responded with military force? There're clearly some form of fuel supply that matters, though it's apparently highly efficient. They run short on fuel in "The Hand of God" in the first season.

The Terrans could also learn a lot about Mobile sustainability from the Colonials, especially from the Pegasus, while she is not a high speed production facility she can build new ships and parts, which would be a pretty big boon in long operations.

The Midway-class supercarriers were designed to operate behind enemy lines and be self-sufficient, though whether that included fighter production on-board was never clarified.

I mean lets be honest the Tiger claws launch/land setup is pretty bad and leaves her extremely vulnerable. But they could also benefit from trading off jump drives and computer hardware, or at least partly. Th unique way the Confeds calculate and achieve their jumps could greatly improve the jump times and abilities of the Colonials.

The Midway-class addressed many of the design issues faced by previous generations of carriers. Part of the problem was that the necessary infrastructure to launch, land, and service fighters meant that having multiple flight decks per carrier was prohibitive in volume. The Midway and her sisters were enormous. Midway is nearly twice as long and well over twice as massive as the Confederation-class carriers like Concordia, which were roughly the same size as the Bengal-class like the Tiger's Claw from WCI. The engineering challenges and material investment in a single Midway dwarfs a Kilrathi-War-era carrier. No doubt, in addition to trying to fix the perceived design flaws of the war era carriers, the differing political judgments regarding military budgets and risk of loss had something to do with the switch. Losing a Midway was catastrophic, compared to the loss of a Bengal or Confederation (which was still quite bad). When the Nephilim war broke out and four Midways were lost and a fifth reduced to salvage, I can only imagine the arguments that took place in the Confederation Admiralty regarding the decision to shift carrier production so drastically.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

They did stop to mine tylium in that one episode whose name escapes me at the moment, and tylium(whatever we would call it)is their primary source of fuel.

And, as Terralthra mentioned, there are at least two episodes where fuel or the refinment of such, is an issue. I completely forgot about the strike on the tylium refinery ship, until he(?) mentioned it, which is embarassing, because at the time I first watched it, I was struck by the similarities between it and the original series' episode "Take the Celestra."

The Pegasus' production facilities would come in handy, but Galactica's already over four decades old and nearly-decomissioned at the time of the Holocaust. Also, over time, her battle damage and general wear and tear accumulates to the point where she's unservicable(this really begins to show in "Blood On the Scales"). This is going to be an issue, especially with the entire fleet a long way from any repair yards. Even Pegasus' abilities to repair herself and Galactica are only going to last so long without a continous supply of raw materials, especially given that Galactica's technologically behind the Pegasus,.

As to tech, valid points concerning the fighter designs and the launch/land setup, though the landing pods are going to be major points of vunerability, while Tiger's Claw's was designed to minimize that vunerability. I have to check to make sure, but I don't think most of the Confed's other designs share the same launch and recovery setup as the Bengal-class(of which the Tiger's Claw was a member). Also, the Colonials will gain the ability of designing and building heavier fighters with more armaments than their Vipers, and gain shield technology as well.

The one thing i have to admit, while she took damage from that, it was gutsy, ballsy and all manners of cool looking. Plus Adama rammed that big base/ship in that nebula too, adama has a pair of adamantium balls, i swear.

But you are totally correct she couldn't with stand laser damage, whether or not she would be highly susceptible could be a matter of some minor debate, it would definitely melt armor and hull plating off at the very least. Blow holes in the outer hull too, but she does have that interior hull to contend with, and each section is capable of being very well sealed off from the next, probably why they can take those beatings.

Your average weaponized laser would punch a hole through the hull and do damage to at least the compartment beyond. Whether or not it does damage beyond that depends on the power output of the laser itself. The Behemoth's primary(and only)laser, for example, was designed to one-shot a planet, much like the Death Star superlaser, except the Death Star actually had fighter protection and secondary armament.

This provides a much better explanation of what lasers can do, than I possibly could. It doesn't entirely explain how WC lasers work, because, most science-fiction media tend to get it wrong.

(Atomic Rockets is pretty much the go-to reference for anything science-fiction, by the way)

And, in reference to the nuBSG series finale, it was the primary Cylon colony the Galactica rammed.

As for the escape from New Caprica, the atmospheric jump worked, because it surprised the Toasters, and as cool-looking as it was(which, I concede, plays a larger role in SF games, movies and TV than it should, really)hellishly consumptive of fuel/remass for even the short time the ship had to thrust to overcome the force of New Caprica's gravity on its massive hull.

Crazy, but it worked.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Glad we can agree on that, maybe ill check out that book. I am always looking for new books to read.

It's like this. I didn't care for RDM's take on the series, and I certainly didn't like how it ended, though I stuck it through and gave it the benefit of the doubt(something I didn't bother with doing for either Caprica, or Blood And Chrome). The only thing of Moore's I liked, and the only TNG-era episode I liked, was "The Wounded."

Given that, if there was any indication that even the twelve Colonies still intact had a fighting chance against the Confed, I would say so, and give the reasons why. Like or dislike doesn't enter into it.

For example, I am a huge fan of Drake's RCN novels, but against the Galactic Empire of the Star Wars' Originial Trilogy, neither the Republic of Cinnabar nor the Alliance of Free Stars stand one hope in Hell's chance of surviving even a portion of the Empire's full might. The RCN would give it a damn good fight, and the Alliance Fleet the same, but, in the end, Daniel Leary's luck and Adele Mundy's skill couldn't stop the inevitable.

[LastShadow]

Thats very very well thought out, and i highly appreciate it.

Now coming across basically anything in decent numbers except solitary ships the Battlestars would get stomped, as much as i like both those ships, and as much of a beating as they can take they are grossly outnumbered most of the time.

Now as for what the Colonials could bring to the table, because clearly they cant bolster the forces of the Terrans, would be trade-offs in tech. Like highly maneuverable alternate fighter types with (in my opinion) a superior launch/land platform for said fighters. Not to mention what really honestly appears to be space faring vessels that do not require fuel. The colonials go a loooong way with a decent sized fleet without refueling, they talk about replenishing water a lot but never fuel. This in and of itself could be a huge boon to the Terrans.

Did you miss the episode where the crew and workforce of the tylium refinery ship went on strike and Adm. Adama treated it as a mutiny and responded with military force? There're clearly some form of fuel supply that matters, though it's apparently highly efficient. They run short on fuel in "The Hand of God" in the first season.

The Terrans could also learn a lot about Mobile sustainability from the Colonials, especially from the Pegasus, while she is not a high speed production facility she can build new ships and parts, which would be a pretty big boon in long operations.

The Midway-class supercarriers were designed to operate behind enemy lines and be self-sufficient, though whether that included fighter production on-board was never clarified.

I mean lets be honest the Tiger claws launch/land setup is pretty bad and leaves her extremely vulnerable. But they could also benefit from trading off jump drives and computer hardware, or at least partly. Th unique way the Confeds calculate and achieve their jumps could greatly improve the jump times and abilities of the Colonials.

The Midway-class addressed many of the design issues faced by previous generations of carriers. Part of the problem was that the necessary infrastructure to launch, land, and service fighters meant that having multiple flight decks per carrier was prohibitive in volume. The Midway and her sisters were enormous. Midway is nearly twice as long and well over twice as massive as the Confederation-class carriers like Concordia, which were roughly the same size as the Bengal-class like the Tiger's Claw from WCI. The engineering challenges and material investment in a single Midway dwarfs a Kilrathi-War-era carrier. No doubt, in addition to trying to fix the perceived design flaws of the war era carriers, the differing political judgments regarding military budgets and risk of loss had something to do with the switch. Losing a Midway was catastrophic, compared to the loss of a Bengal or Confederation (which was still quite bad). When the Nephilim war broke out and four Midways were lost and a fifth reduced to salvage, I can only imagine the arguments that took place in the Confederation Admiralty regarding the decision to shift carrier production so drastically.

As far as nBSG and fuel goes, you are right. I forgot about those its been awhile since i watched the series, i may binge watch it again after i finish rewatching DS9.

Still making a carrier bigger to fix a space issue, seems rather silly when you think about it, plus their launch bays were rather large. After going throught thw wiki someone posted further up, the designs where awful, i can think of a few design in other scifi that where more efficient, like the Battlestars.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Categ ... tars_(RDM) Combining the design choices of the Colonials, with the build and tech capabilities of the Confeds could work quite well. But maybe im just biased on that idea as im a fan of the design of the nBSG Battlestars and what they accomplish with their size. Though being only a little smaller than the midway, and double the size of a bengal class.

Though the Battlestars carry less fighter craft too, at leas comparing the wikis, although maybe not. i need to figure out what a "full compliment" of vipers qualifies as...

[Terralthra]

You don't know the constraints under which they operate, so you have no basis to judge "efficiency" or "awful design". I will point out that Battlestars at least separate launch and landing on different vectors, which certainly seems wise, given naval carrier operational history. Depending on how you interpret the launch/landing mini-cutscenes, the Bengal-class carriers separate launch tubes from landing decks, while Confederation-class does not (because of the large pulse cannon built into the superstructure, presumably). The Yorktown-class carriers (like TCS Victory from WCIII) were much worse than either, having landing and launch directly on the same vector. A crash-landing seems to be a direct and lethal threat to any ongoing launch operations(!) unless there's something not visible on-screen. This is the sort of design that, when fixed with offset landing decks on naval carriers, drastically reduced flight deck accident rates.

Again, the Midway-class has multiple launch and landing bays on separate vectors.

I'm not sure why you say "making a carrier bigger to fix a volume issue" seems silly. Preflight, loading, repair, and so on are operations that require infrastructure. No matter what ship you're on and what fighter you're servicing, the infrastructure is of some size (depending on tech level). If you want more flight decks, you either centralize these operations, which entails all sorts of massive bomber- and shuttle-size passageways in your ship that have bad effects on structural integrity and damage control/servicing fighters in combat situation. The only other alternative is to build multiple sets of service infrastructure. This takes volume, and you have to build starship around your volume. Starship costs material. Material costs money, and the more you have sunk into a single ship, the greater impact losing that ship represents. An 800-1000 meter ship weighing in the 800k-900k ton range seems to have been where the effective design point stuck for the majority of the Kilrathi War, which says something about cost-effectiveness of carrier design and construction.

[LastShadow]

You don't know the constraints under which they operate, so you have no basis to judge "efficiency" or "awful design". I will point out that Battlestars at least separate launch and landing on different vectors, which certainly seems wise, given naval carrier operational history. Depending on how you interpret the launch/landing mini-cutscenes, the Bengal-class carriers separate launch tubes from landing decks, while Confederation-class does not (because of the large pulse cannon built into the superstructure, presumably). The Yorktown-class carriers (like TCS Victory from WCIII) were much worse than either, having landing and launch directly on the same vector. A crash-landing seems to be a direct and lethal threat to any ongoing launch operations(!) unless there's something not visible on-screen. This is the sort of design that, when fixed with offset landing decks on naval carriers, drastically reduced flight deck accident rates.

Again, the Midway-class has multiple launch and landing bays on separate vectors.

I'm not sure why you say "making a carrier bigger to fix a volume issue" seems silly. Preflight, loading, repair, and so on are operations that require infrastructure. No matter what ship you're on and what fighter you're servicing, the infrastructure is of some size (depending on tech level). If you want more flight decks, you either centralize these operations, which entails all sorts of massive bomber- and shuttle-size passageways in your ship that have bad effects on structural integrity and damage control/servicing fighters in combat situation. The only other alternative is to build multiple sets of service infrastructure. This takes volume, and you have to build starship around your volume. Starship costs material. Material costs money, and the more you have sunk into a single ship, the greater impact losing that ship represents. An 800-1000 meter ship weighing in the 800k-900k ton range seems to have been where the effective design point stuck for the majority of the Kilrathi War, which says something about cost-effectiveness of carrier design and construction.

True. i concede the point.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

As I've might have stated upthread, the battlestars would probably do the Border Worlds or the Landreich more good than the Confed; they would be a big boost to either of their armed forces, especially, if they can be retrofitted with beam weapons and the ability to operate heavier fightercraft.

Pegasus probably more so than Galactica, but the Border Worlds got their mileage out of the anicent Durango-class design, so, who knows?

The series and the wiki are maddeningly vague about the Viper complement aboard both battlestars. I'd assume 20-40 aboard the Galactica as a lower limit, as she started out with just the squadron of Mark IIs as a museum display, plus the Mark VIIs meant for the fly past, plus(for purposes of this scenario)whatever Mark VIIs Pegasus is able to crank out for Galactica..

Plus the complement of Raptor multi-role craft. These would probably be closer in function to the heavy fighter-bombers used in the Wing Commander 'verse.

[LastShadow]

As I've might have stated upthread, the battlestars would probably do the Border Worlds or the Landreich more good than the Confed; they would be a big boost to either of their armed forces, especially, if they can be retrofitted with beam weapons and the ability to operate heavier fightercraft.

Pegasus probably more so than Galactica, but the Border Worlds got their mileage out of the anicent Durango-class design, so, who knows?

The series and the wiki are maddeningly vague about the Viper complement aboard both battlestars. I'd assume 20-40 aboard the Galactica as a lower limit, as she started out with just the squadron of Mark IIs as a museum display, plus the Mark VIIs meant for the fly past, plus(for purposes of this scenario)whatever Mark VIIs Pegasus is able to crank out for Galactica..

Plus the complement of Raptor multi-role craft. These would probably be closer in function to the heavy fighter-bombers used in the Wing Commander 'verse.

The wiki is highly vague about the compliment of vipers on the fresh of the line battlestars, the second half of galactica says she shipped out during the attack with 80 vipers, so we know she can carry at least that many.

The original series galactica had 150ish at one point but that was extreme upper limit for that ship.

So my assumption is maybe somewhere in between maybe 100 - 110, maybe a little less once you include Raptors. But who knows how much less, or how much more.

Though the different variety of vipers they carry is interesting.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

The wiki is highly vague about the compliment of vipers on the fresh of the line battlestars, the second half of galactica says she shipped out during the attack with 80 vipers, so we know she can carry at least that many.

The original series galactica had 150ish at one point but that was extreme upper limit for that ship.

So my assumption is maybe somewhere in between maybe 100 - 110, maybe a little less once you include Raptors. But who knows how much less, or how much more.

Though the different variety of vipers they carry is interesting.

I'll have to see the mini-series again to be sure, but eighty sounds about right.

Orginial series Galactica had about that many(80-150) after she took on Pegasus' squadrons in addition to her own, following the events of "The Living Legend." Formerly, I'd assumed Larson's battlestars had the same number of fighters as his Cylon basestars, about forty or so.

By those figures, then, RDM's Pegasus should have at least 100 Vipers as a lower limit, since she is larger than the Galactica, which would've left Galactica herself massively overcrowded following the fight at New Caprica.

As for the difference between Mark IIs(clearly a nod to the Vipers from Larson's series) and the Mark VIIs, that amounts to a sleeker appearance, better avionics and a third autocannon for the Mark VII, perhaps a larger missile payload as well, as the Mark IIs are just as capable of engaging Cylon Raiders as their more modern bretheren.

[LastShadow]

The wiki is highly vague about the compliment of vipers on the fresh of the line battlestars, the second half of galactica says she shipped out during the attack with 80 vipers, so we know she can carry at least that many.

The original series galactica had 150ish at one point but that was extreme upper limit for that ship.

So my assumption is maybe somewhere in between maybe 100 - 110, maybe a little less once you include Raptors. But who knows how much less, or how much more.

Though the different variety of vipers they carry is interesting.

I'll have to see the mini-series again to be sure, but eighty sounds about right.

Orginial series Galactica had about that many(80-150) after she took on Pegasus' squadrons in addition to her own, following the events of "The Living Legend." Formerly, I'd assumed Larson's battlestars had the same number of fighters as his Cylon basestars, about forty or so.

By those figures, then, RDM's Pegasus should have at least 100 Vipers as a lower limit, since she is larger than the Galactica, which would've left Galactica herself massively overcrowded following the fight at New Caprica.

As for the difference between Mark IIs(clearly a nod to the Vipers from Larson's series) and the Mark VIIs, that amounts to a sleeker appearance, better avionics and a third autocannon for the Mark VII, perhaps a larger missile payload as well, as the Mark IIs are just as capable of engaging Cylon Raiders as their more modern bretheren.

Pegasus is only about 330 meters larger or so, but according to the wiki she did carry more vipers.

Also according to the wiki, they jacked out the Mk. VIII's advanced flight system in case of cylon Haxorz, so they are harder to fly than their predecessors leading only really good pilots to be able to fly them.

Though i do highly appreciate the Pegasus nickname cause that girl is totally a Beast.

The varying payload availabilty, and the fact that they are listed as Kinetic energy weapons as opposed to strictly ballistic is interesting, ill have to look more into what they define as a KEW...... and that was highly dissapoint as i looked while typing. They are just chemically propelled weapons like i thought they were.

At least the creators of the Reimagined series were kind enough to provide us with a lot of specifics on armaments and loadouts and such.