Evil Decepticons?

[K. A. Pital]

So I figured the Decepticons originally were bad guys who wrecked the idyllic Cybertron.

However, in the IDW comics the Decepticons are miners who are ruthlessly exploited by rich and murderous Autobots, and the society looks more like Rome, where Megatron plays the role of Spartacus for a while. The same "gladiators and rebels" story is actually present in most comic book continuities, either on Cybertron or elsewhere.

If the Decepticons really were opressed by the Autobots, it changes the whole Transformers plot.

The animation presented a different backstory (military machinery as the basis for Decepticons) which made sense with positioning the sides as the "good Autobot" and "bad Decepticon"...

Are Decepticons the bad guys?

[Grumman]

In IDW's canon the Decepticons are largely drawn from the lower classes of pre-war Cybertron - lower class because if you turn into a mining vehicle you're obviously destined to be a miner, whether you like it or not. The regime they were revolting against were not Optimus Prime and his Autobots, though: both Optimus Prime's Autobots and Megatron's Decepticons are successors to that regime, it's just that one still calls themselves Autobots and the other does not.

The Decepticons are the bad guys despite being started with good intentions. Putting an end to the old regime is a noble cause, but it does not excuse what they became.

[madd0ct0r]

Are transformers limited to one vehicle then? I always assumed they could choose any shape within reason but stuck with one consistent one for the sake of visual narrative.

And why are they human vehicles when on their home planet?

[Vendetta]

Are transformers limited to one vehicle then? I always assumed they could choose any shape within reason but stuck with one consistent one for the sake of visual narrative.

Kinda. Their vehicle modes on Cybertron aren't the same as their earth vehicle/object modes, but they're usually similar. Optimus Prime is a space truck on Cybertron.

He's also a librarian, so who knows how they decide what type of thing you are?

[Grumman]

Are transformers limited to one vehicle then? I always assumed they could choose any shape within reason but stuck with one consistent one for the sake of visual narrative.

What I was referring to was a cultural limitation, not a technological one. In that series Megatron has been a mining vehicle, a stealth bomber and a tank, but all but the first was after the Senate and the functionists were overthrown.

[biostem]

I thought the Decpticons were originally the Cybertronian military, who basically overthrew the more peace-loving Autobot government, because they kind of saw them as unnecessary/unwanted.

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah... the story varies depending on generation and author. There have been a few different versions of the origin story. Military hardware is the usual story, or the Decepticons were a more warlike/aggressive strain of Cybertronian... something like that. Humble miners being oppressed by one-percenter Autobots is new to me.

[Imperial Overlord]

IDW is doing it's own continuity and is more than willing to change the older background material to suit their new universe. Megatron starts out as a miner and peaceful political agitator and philosopher who opposes the totalitarian Functionalist regime until it drives him towards more violent revolution with its resistance to reform and callous brutality. Optimus is a cop who comes into contact with Megatron and is inspired by his writings, coming to question and then resist the system he theoretically serves. Megatron and his followers go too far, becoming a solution that's as bad as the problem. Between Optimus's Autobots and Megatron's Decepticons ("You are being deceived. We will show you the truth.") the Functionalists are wrecked but the civil war doesn't end there and it continues as the Autobot-Decepticon War.

The Decepticons are the "bad guys" but it is a series with a lot of shades of gray. They aren't depicted as intrinsically evil but they as a group have done a lot of terrible things and the Autobots aren't portrayed as all good. Several issues have dealt with Autobot war crimes, for example.

[Parallax]

In IDW, your alt mode is usually decided by your spark - which also largely determines everything about you as a Transformer including your personality.
Optimus and Megatron started off as friends, agreeing that the ruling senate was corrupt and needed to go. Optimus, a cop at the time, thought that peaceful gradual change was the right path. Megatron went for the quick and bloody revolution option.

And he did. The senate was massacred, Megatron slew Sentinel Prime in one on one combat. Optimus stepped up and became the new Autobot leader who decided that tyranny and a new pax cybertronia were not good options - and stemmed the advanced the Decepticons who had quick conquered the vast majority of the planet.

I do thoroughly recommend the IDW Transformers line. Apart from a few missteps, most whenever they try to do a big event/crossover, it's top quality stuff.

[Q99]

Oh heck yea they're bad.

In IDW, the old Cybertronian senate was corrupt, and then basically *two* factions spun out. The Autobots absorbed more of the old, but were also anti-senate. The last leader of the senate, Zeta Prime, was killed by Megatron and Orion Pax (aka Optimus Prime), working together.

At one point, Orion Pax threw a body of a senate stooge who'd been hired to kill a prisoner in his custody, a non-violent poet named 'Megatron,' and used those Poet's words to ask how they can get rid of that senate. Megatron basically started *both* factions in a way.

The Decepticons are a mix of people who wanted freedom, people who wanted to be at the top of the boot stomping down, people who just like violence and rule by force, people who wanted a Cybertronian Empire to spread across the galaxy and eliminate potential rivals, and so on.


The Autobots have some of the old top- though not many of the old senate survived- but also people like many of the scientists and other intellectuals, who were treated reasonably well under the old system while not being at the top of the poll, those who were weaker and wouldn't prosper under 'survival of the strongest,' rules, a bunch of Outlier (Cybertronians with unusual abilities) who the senate and Functionist council had persecuted and a good senator who was good friends with Orion Pax took in. A lot of the old police, especially the non-corrupt ones, went Autobot. And a whole lot of the common citizenry- the Decepticons did unleash purges against Neutrals, 'join or die' stuff.

Kinda. Their vehicle modes on Cybertron aren't the same as their earth vehicle/object modes, but they're usually similar. Optimus Prime is a space truck on Cybertron.

He's also a librarian, so who knows how they decide what type of thing you are?

Librarian is TFPrime. In IDW, he was a cop.

In IDW, it is possible to change your form more radically, but it's expensive and I think only a procedure that really got developed more after the Senate and Functionist Council collapsed and the war began. Back before, even if it was doable, it was illegal. The best one could do is 'rent out' someone's body ('cheap body tourism' which apparently had some big side effects). I can only name a few bots who've done so, like Guzzle, an autobot who switched from forklift to Tank (at the cost of needing 100x more fuel intake). Megatron has a few forms too, and Frenzy & Rumble have gotten motocycle forms.

And back in the day, you could only get jobs associated with your form (with ones like cars & trucks being fairly general purpose, but if you had a drill? You mined. Gun? You fought. Microscope? You scienced. Memory stick or casset? You were used as a receptical for someone considered far more important while you were classed as 'disposable').

Pretty much, both of the current factions dislike functionism, though some shades of it persist in habits, biases, and so on.

[K. A. Pital]

Functionism has got to be the best TF plot device even found (indeed, if the machine shape determines your fate, that's the machine version of eugenics and you'd be hard pressed to avoid finding it horrible). I say this as I also like the IDW continuity. Hard to throw some serious ideas into a story about giant transforming robots, but somehow they've managed to do exactly that.

Oh heck yea they're bad.

Well, my opinion is that in the IDW continuity neither faction is 100% bad or good (unlike the animated series where the military-civilian story is the key). It's more like shades of grey.

[NeoGoomba]

Whoa I'm really digging how this new continuity sounds. The original Marvel stuff had gotten so convoluted and strange (the Decepticons originally began as Megatron's fight club, if I remember right?). This sounds quite a bit more sophisticated.

Did IDW do a continuity reboot or something that would be a good place to jump in at, or should I just start with IDW's first issue of the series?

[Grumman]

Did IDW do a continuity reboot or something that would be a good place to jump in at, or should I just start with IDW's first issue of the series?

The two ongoing series starting with Robots In Disguise #1 and More Than Meets The Eye #1 are a good place to start. From there you've pretty much got three solid years of good comics.

Spoiler regarding MTMTE 35+: Spoiler

And then they spoil their streak of good writing with a time travel story resolved with a predestination paradox. Fuck predestination paradoxes.

[NeoGoomba]

The two ongoing series starting with Robots In Disguise #1 and More Than Meets The Eye #1 are a good place to start. From there you've pretty much got three solid years of good comics.

Awesome, thank you sir.

[Q99]

No continuity reboot, but a very clear jumping on point. The 'Death of Optimus Prime' oneshot (spoiler: he doesn't die) leads into the two ongoings era which is very good stuff.

Well, my opinion is that in the IDW continuity neither faction is 100% bad or good (unlike the animated series where the military-civilian story is the key). It's more like shades of grey.

Not 100%, but the Decepticons are still fairly solidly worse on the whole.

I find it interesting how much the Autobots are shaped by Optimus- he believes in older legends of great Primes, and became a sort of Prime that had previously only existed in legend.

[NeoGoomba]

No continuity reboot, but a very clear jumping on point. The 'Death of Optimus Prime' oneshot (spoiler: he doesn't die)

Lol after a lifetime of being a Transformers fan, I don't think I know how to properly process a storyline with that name where Optimus DOESN'T die.

[biostem]

What always truck me as odd is that the very premise of the Transformers, (Robots in Disguise), wouldn't work on a planet where the *only* vehicles are also the inhabitants themselves. Yes, there are starships that they use, which aren't sapient, but those seem to be fairly uncommon, and I don't recall seeing non-sapient vehicles in common use on Cybertron.

I suppose one could argue that the alt modes are more utilitarian, and just so happen to provide a good disguise on inhabited and technologically advanced worlds...

[Q99]

Lol after a lifetime of being a Transformers fan, I don't think I know how to properly process a storyline with that name where Optimus DOESN'T die.

Optimus Prime, in IDW, has had two near-death experiences (one where he survived by transferring his mind to his trailer, one where he was missing for awhile), but has never actually died.

(Which is not to say death-and-return *never* happens, but it pretty much always involves a nasty place called 'the Dead Universe,' and has not involved Optimus)

What always truck me as odd is that the very premise of the Transformers, (Robots in Disguise), wouldn't work on a planet where the *only* vehicles are also the inhabitants themselves. Yes, there are starships that they use, which aren't sapient, but those seem to be fairly uncommon, and I don't recall seeing non-sapient vehicles in common use on Cybertron.

I suppose one could argue that the alt modes are more utilitarian, and just so happen to provide a good disguise on inhabited and technologically advanced worlds...

They do have some vehicle-vehicles too- generally pretty big ones, to move around other TFs, but a minibot could drive something not too different from Optimus size, and some large vehicles exist (tanker-sized bots are uncommon, so there's the occasional really-big tanker/transport truck with cybertronian drivers, for example). Granted, disguise is a lot harder among them, as those vehicles aren't overly common.

Alt modes at base are utilitarian, and the disguise stuff, yea, came later. I mean, they do have to do moderate modifications of a form to make it a disguise on another world.

The utilitarian bit is most exemplified by the Functionist Council who classifies TFs, in effect, by what their use is.

Generally speaking, at least. It was fun the one time they couldn't figure a bot out and finally decided his alt mode is 'ornament' ^^

[K. A. Pital]

I thought the utilitarian character of the transformations was usually underscored in all TF background stories about Cybertron, even the ones before IDW. Sure, there's no real reason for the Dinobots to be, uh, Dinobots, but the Constructicons and Starscream's trio do work nicely outside Earth as there's always a need to build and a need to fly. This made the stories more sensible as it gives a purpose to transformation of the robots way before they come to Earth.

[Q99]

I thought the utilitarian character of the transformations was usually underscored in all TF background stories about Cybertron, even the ones before IDW. Sure, there's no real reason for the Dinobots to be, uh, Dinobots, but the Constructicons and Starscream's trio do work nicely outside Earth as there's always a need to build and a need to fly. This made the stories more sensible as it gives a purpose to transformation of the robots way before they come to Earth.

Beast formers are fairly low-rank on the functionist totem poll, just above 'expendables' I think. There was a cybertronian wilderness at one point, so their existence likely ties to there, where they'd be well suited. Also tend to be fairly combat capable, so soldier seems one of the better jobs available to them. Flier seems to be a fairly good alt-mode to have.

Ravage really has it the worst in the old ways- he's a jaguar that turns into a data storage medium.

[biostem]

I thought the utilitarian character of the transformations was usually underscored in all TF background stories about Cybertron, even the ones before IDW. Sure, there's no real reason for the Dinobots to be, uh, Dinobots, but the Constructicons and Starscream's trio do work nicely outside Earth as there's always a need to build and a need to fly. This made the stories more sensible as it gives a purpose to transformation of the robots way before they come to Earth.

Beast formers are fairly low-rank on the functionist totem poll, just above 'expendables' I think. There was a cybertronian wilderness at one point, so their existence likely ties to there, where they'd be well suited. Also tend to be fairly combat capable, so soldier seems one of the better jobs available to them. Flier seems to be a fairly good alt-mode to have.

Ravage really has it the worst in the old ways- he's a jaguar that turns into a data storage medium.

Well, in the G1 continuity, didn't Wheeljack build the Dinobots on Earth? As for Ravage, he is essentially a drone for Soundwave - sure, he may have his own mind, but he's basically Soundwave's lackey, (which makes him Megatron's by extension).

[NeoGoomba]

Ravage may have had it the worst, but he ended up having the most longevity of any other Decepticon in the "original" storyline, successfully surviving the destruction of the Decepticons and becoming a high ranking Predacon.

[Q99]

Well, in the G1 continuity, didn't Wheeljack build the Dinobots on Earth? As for Ravage, he is essentially a drone for Soundwave - sure, he may have his own mind, but he's basically Soundwave's lackey, (which makes him Megatron's by extension).

In G1, yea, but not IDW. In IDW, the 'Dynobots' were part of a military unit called the 'Primal Vanguard' (the old traditional 'fight against other worlds' force from the senate and pre-senate days), who eventually went rogue, and got involved with the gladiator matches that ended up being the early recruiting grounds of the Decepticons, but stuff happened and they decided they liked Autobots more. So unlike G1 where they're some of the newest Autobots, in IDW they're veterans before the war begins.

Ravage... is no-one's drone. In IDW, he and his gang of cassettes (Laserbeak, Buzzsaw) in the slums found what looked like a higher-class TF having great trouble. They helped this bot out, and then due to his humanoid frame (much better accepted), and unusual skills, he was able to help them out, and together they joined a new movement called the Decepticons, which offered freedom and equality to TFs like Ravage, something that obviously has a lot of appeal. Soundwave may be the leader of the group, but they're true friends too.

Also for the last few arcs, he's been off with one set of characters while Soundwave and the rest of the gang are elsewhere.

[Parallax]

In IDW, the Dyno-bots didn't gain their Dinosaur alt modes until they went on a space-faring hunt for a Decepticon who had done them great wrong (Shockwave) and finally tracked him down on dinosaur-era Earth.
To combat the effects of the massive energon experiments Shockwave was doing, they had to house themselves in flesh encased forms and based them on the local fauna.
The fight didn't end well for anyone.

Someone made the comment above that IDW have managed to inject a lot of depth and layers into an old franchise - and this is something I have to support.
How do you lock up an effectively immortal robot as punishment? Spark extraction and shove it in a storage tub.
How do you remove a political opponent without turning him into a martyr? Shadowplay.
If your hands keep seizing up, how do you fix them? You hit them with a hammer.

The IDW series starts off much like you'd expect. It shows the war in full swing, Megatron and Optimus commanding their various forces.
But after a while, the war ends. This war that has defined the Cybertronian race for millions of years is finsihed.
So now what do the Cybertronians do? How do they cope? CAN they cope?

And at that point, the IDW series really split into two major tales - each a different take on what is happening.
Transformers (formerly Transformers: Robots in Disguise) focuses on Cybertron and the sudden end of the war, the massive intake of Cybertronians returning (Autobot, Decepticon and neutrals alike), the discovery of lost Cybertron colonies. And Starscream getting everything he ever wanted. And cursing it.
More Than Meets The Eye: Rodimus takes off on a quest to find the legendary Knights of Cybetron. His crew of complete misfits (including Ultra Magnus, Cyclonus, Ratchet, Red Alert, and so on) have grand and often mind boggling adventures. This title is almost certainly the stronger of the two and is a wonderful mix of laughter, heartbreak, adventure and fun.

[Parallax]

As for Ravage, Q99 is right. He is no ones lackey. We've seen that Soundwave is fiercely protective of his cassettes (even Rat-Bat, who didn't start off as a cassette at all). And that loyalty is returned.
Indeed, it would seem that the only person that Ravage is more loyal to than Soundwave is Megatron, as recent issues have indicated.