Deutschland on the Great Plains (RAR!)

[Zor]

In this scenario on the night of march 1st, 1875 a strange event happens around the new German Empire (Including Poland and Alsace-Lorraine) and the states of Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska and Oklahoma. In short people, dogs, cats, horses, cattle and pigs fall unconscious and are collected, as are a grab bag of various personal effects from people's homes. Odd shapes are seen briefly flying overhead in the following day over the Eastern States, England, Spain, France and Portugal, most going east to west with a few going in the opposite direction and a few people who manage to get through see odd thing descend from the sky in the US States and do odd things. Regardless, 48 hours latter the intent of these strange beings happens as the transported populations begin to wake up. In Germany the displaced Settlers and Natives wake up in largely abandoned German towns and cities. In Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska and Oklahoma more than 41 Million Imperial Germans awake.

Some of said Germans are settled into American Houses and towns, but most of them are put into new farms, towns and cities of serviceable but drab prefabricated modular ceramic buildings between 1-5 stories tall able to serve a variety of functions from housing to workshops to stables to temples to libraries and recreations of major German industrial facilities and of Germanic Civil Architecture for governmental facilities. Said new cities largely have populations drawn from a specific city in Germany. For example the population (as well as foreign visitors) end up in Neu Berlin, which was built on what was once Wichita. Livestock is stabled and the New German Empire has been given enough stored food to last for 18 months in various granaries and storehouses, along with seed stock. A hundred million tonnes of coal and 25 million tonnes of iron ingots have also been dropped off in various store houses around the New German Empire. All the Gold in German banks has been relocated. A rail system has been laid linking the twenty largest new settlements with recreations of German locomotives, while every settlement more than 5,000 people has a telegraph line going to it. Maps have been set up in people's houses for their new cities and of the area they've been dropped off in. The German Military has been brought over along with their gear, being stationed in bases around the territory, though the Imperial Germany Navy has been dropped off in Oklahoman Rivers.

Otto von Bismarck and Kaiser Wilhelm remain in power over the relocated population with the loyalty of the military.

What happens both immediately and in the long term?

Zor

[Ralin]

Europe is basically at the mercy of plucky American frontiersmen.

[Solauren]

HAH! Europe has the same level of technology as the American Frontiersmen, and are way more organized then native Americans.

The Americans might cause some banditry level problems as they figure out what happened, but all that land right next to European countries will cause an upswing in militarization and fighting to claim it.


The German Empire now in North America is going to have way more impact.

[LaCroix]

The displaced settlers and natives will only be a blink of the radar. They are a few million at most, largely unorganized, in new terrain, and in between multiple states (France, Austria, Russia, to name just the major parties) who had an eye on that land for centuries. Their existing huge standing armies, with tech much better than what the settlers would have at hand, and MUCH better training, will simply wipe away any resistance to them simply marching in and claiming everything until the point where said armies meet and agree to the new borders. Most likely, they won't even fight among each others, because simply dividing the new land evenly between everyone would be territorial gain unheard of.

Luckily for the settlers and natives, these same nations will be quite welcoming to them, as long as they are willing to integrate. And funnily enough, since most people in these states (as of today) are of German ancestry, it is quite likely that a lot of them will be speaking German, or have emigrated to the US, themselves, just a few years ago (1820 and later is when German immigration to the US started to become a thing)...

Prussian Germany under Bismark and Wilhelm arriving the US is a huge thing, though. Germany has been starving for ressources and the need to expand, and has technology and military tradition to back that up. The US, on the other hand, has no standing army, and has won most of their conflicts by virtue of the other party being vastly inferior or having to bring each soldier and bullet by sailing a ship across the atlantic.

ALso , considering the fact that they are surrounded by territories that have been settled by Germans in search for "better pastures", it is quite possible that they will face very little local resistance, after all, almost everyone they will encounter will have family within the displaced German Empire they thought they were leaving behind for good...

Or maybe that would cause extra strife, in some cases

[Solauren]

The question is, how different will the German Empire treat the Native Americans in this scenario? And how far and fast would they expand?

Could we see a rather amicable relationship being established (with the German Empire actually helping the natives out in exchange for assistance), or will we see the German Empire tear through them all without a care, possibly depopulating the continent?

[Raw Shark]

At the risk of stating the obvious:

Short term: Most displaced people going in both directions freak the fuck out, taking this event as a sign from whatever deity they are most familiar with and interpreting it as they will. Charismatic and enterprising clergymen / medicine men / Tarot card readers and what-have-you see an abrupt and sharp rise in popularity and influence.

[LadyTevar]

LaCroix:

Remember, in 1875, the US was only 10years past the US Civil War. There were a lot of Veteran Soldiers who went West for various reasons, mostly former Confederates.

[LaCroix]

Sorry for the delay...

Depending on what theatre you are referring -
Considering European theater - there will be a couple of Settlers, part of them Veterans, which means that a lot of them are probably maimed in one form or another, with no armament but what was found in that area (most likely their own private guns, and maybe some militia stores in bigger cities), and neighbored to(most likely enraged) native americans not picky about whom to pick a fight with, and probably convinced the white men are to blame for it and will start attacking everyone they see.
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1880_United_States_census - there is about 2-2.5 million of them (not even numbers for Oklahoma, yet), women and kids included.

And those are set against at least 3 Major european powers with fully equipped armies numbering about 1 million, each, and once the natives are being engaged/driven off by the French, and into the former German territory of the settlers, that will be another problem for them.

US-
This is the German army that crushed Austria in 1866, crushed France in 1871, and has their full equipment and - if I read that correctly with workshops/factories being present, and lots of raw material and food stored - their supply chain mostly. There might be a lot of US Veterans around, but they would first have to be rallied, organized, equipped,etc...

We are talking about around 500.000 standing army, with a reserve (of soldiers having served in the past 4 years) of about the same to double that, considered by many to be the best trained professional fighting army of that time.

Also considering the size - 41 million Germans - that is pretty much the size of the remaining US. New Berlin will immediately become the second biggest city in the US, with a lot of the other new cities becoming number 3-50, immediately. All connected by extensive railroad, and german political and civil oversight fully intact. (TBH- New Berlin would most likely be in Des Moines area, if you keep the rough position of German polulation kind of intact, but that was not stated)

So while there will be some upheaval, there is no food scarcity, people will have lots of space to spread out into better farms than they had, etc. If the Germans decide to stay there (most likely will need to, because by the time they have settled down from the shock, France, Russia and Austria will be well on their way to occupy their former home.), there will be not much that the US can do against that.

Not to disregard the CV veterans or the US army, but if this is going to escalate to a military conflict, this is still an "experienced, well trained army vs. assembled militia" thing.

And considering that most land to the west is Indian territory, and Germany being an expansionist State at the time, trying to get colonies and stuff, this would be their dream come true - they will most likely claim everything to their west up to the pacific, immediately, just to regain a coastline. And willing to press their claim, agressively.

With them pretty much only having to deal with one enemy instead of constantly needing to fight 3 Empires, I am rather sure they will establish a border at roughly the Route 40, and most likely somewhere closer to, or at the mississippi/illinois river to the east, if feeling cocky.

Tbh - if they are going to push (and having maps of the US, they know where to go...) - they would probably be in control of all the Mississippi crossings and Chicago before any opposing army could even be assembled.

Btw some other implications -

what are the chances of the South rising again? I can certainly see them trying to haggle with the Germans and tell them they will rise up in support if they agree to southern state borders being recognized, in turn. And while not slavers themselves, I would not think that Germany would refuse such an alliance.

What about Canada and Britain? Wanting another go at the US while they are distracted and Europe is in disarray gobbling up Germany?
Mexico? Trying to get Texas or at least California while the US can't put all their weight behind it?

[Solauren]

The British Empire would move to reconquer the remaining United States, if only to act as a counter to the relocation of the German Empire. The idea of Germany conquering the United States, and then Canada, and being unopposed in North America, would be a very scary thought. (Even if at the time, Queen Victoria's relatives and allies included the German Royal family).

Another thing to consider is, due to the time consuming nature of travel, it's unlikely any diseases common in Germany had previously made it to North America. Historically, at that time, the diseases that made it were the kind that were common in England, France, and Spain, and could incubate and spread during a voyager, with a reasonable chance of survival.

Now, suddenly, that entire disease-ecosystem has been relocated, amongst a native population that has no previous exposure. We'll likely see another wave of Native American deaths caused by new diseases being introduced. Combine that with the ecological disruptions the German Empire is going to bring with it and cause (factories, mining, forestry, hunting, etc), you'll likely see the Native American population take a massive hit. Combine that with German expansion, and you'd probably see alot of native populations wiped out.

As for the Southern United States, I can't see Germany co-operating with them. Why? Because the Confederate states showed themselves to be self-interested, and rebellious. In short, the German Empire can't trust them. More then likely, I can see someone picking a fight between them, and Germany conquering them, and beating them into submission. If the 'Union' gets involved, Germany will attack them as well.

The only real question is, how quickly can the British Empire get forces there to keep their own territory, and possibly convince the remaining population of the United States to rejoin the British Empire (possibly under a set-up like Canada's 'Responsible Government') to avoid being conquered by the German Empire.

Eventually, when World War 1 happens, it will be the German Empire invading Europe to reclaim their former ancestral homes.

[LaCroix]

We are talking about Bismark - he is certainly not above goading the Confederate states on with promises to keep the southern front secure, just to finish his war.

The moment he got what they needed out of it, he would start pressuring the minor partner with demands that he knows they can't keep up with to create a diplomatic incident that gives rise to the need to "intervene" and "Pacify" the southern region. Or start needling others to go to war with them and drop them/stab their back.
He was the INVENTOR of "Realpolitik" and considered the "champion diplomatic chessmaster" in Europe. He was trying to avoid wars he could not win, but he was a master in instigating conflicts between third parties that would suit German needs.

Combine it with Wilhelms likelyhood to start a war if the chances arise, and the relative easy situation they find themselves in:
No (same sized)Austria to the south, no (huge) Russia to the east, no (same sized) France to the west, no Italy, and no British invasion just an hour away from the continent.

They face only a "France-sized", but militarily comparably underdeveloped US (no standing army to react quickly, lack of trained artillery, no trained cavalry units, etc.), a potentially allied Confederate Rebellion, nothing but a few native tribes to the west, and a small semblance of Britain (Canada), but with a supply train across the whole Atlantic to compete with. Any european nation dropped in there like this scenario would steamrill over the country.
They would take years to pacify the rebellions, but with them controlling the east coast and the midwest, that would be manageable. Also, if they take over and nothing really changes (Germans were a democracy, too) in the day to day picture, people will have more pressing needs than to fight someone as effective in governing as the German Empire. Especially with a standing army and control over the police force.

Britain could be "easily" cut off by taking the main canadian ports, instead of having to secure the whole French and German coastline against invasions that could be literally done via private yachts and fishermen sailing over the channel on a particular nice day, dropping troops off to create a beachhead(reverse Dunkirk). They certainly will be trying, but the German response to that will be much swifter and definite than any war of 1821 US reaction.