Extremely cruel force sub...

Acclamator · Post by **Acclamator** » 2002-08-29 06:58pm

The American soldiers in the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan are replaced with TNG-era UFP redshirts.

They go in clad in their standard paja.... ummm I mean uniforms, and toting their vibr... err I mean phaser rifles. Assume that they have planet surface water vehicles coming up to the beach disgorging them the way the American landing craft did in SPR.

Anyway, what goes?

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-29 07:01pm

They die, all of them within a minute max.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-29 07:02pm

They have no way to get though the barbed wire, and there to stupid to properly take cover. They die, very fast. Most wont even make to off the landing craft, the sight off all the blood would give them mental break downs and the landing crafts warp core wont do well under fire from MG42s and mortars.

Acclamator · Post by **Acclamator** » 2002-08-29 07:28pm

And the flipside: How would Imperial Stormtroopers do?
Armed only with their E-11s, they like the Americans also disgorge onto the beach from landing craft of some sort.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-29 08:27pm

They can burn strait through the Singles VIA the Blaster Rifles and I think they could nail most of the MG Nests before they even got that fair because of Range/ease to see where your shooting of E-11s

And a lucky shot could set of the MG Ammo after all thats high heat weaponry

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-29 08:50pm

Acclamator wrote:And the flipside: How would Imperial Stormtroopers do?
Armed only with their E-11s, they like the Americans also disgorge onto the beach from landing craft of some sort.

The American troops had more then just a M1 Carbine for every man.

To be a fair force sub the sub force should have the weapons it would carry for such a task. The Storm troopers would bring along flame rifles, grenades and T-21's among other things.

Anyway, the E-11's could rapidly blast apart the bunkers, given what they did to the Death Star Walls. And Barbed wire could be breached with them as well. Stormtrooper armor would provide good protection against shrapnel and machine guns fire.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » 2002-08-30 01:18pm

This isn't a "cruel" sub - cruel is what the real life actuality of the thing was, as experienced by the US soldiers.

With feds instead, it's just stupid. I mean, there's a "slaughter" as it is used conventionally to describe a hopeless battle, and then there's a slaughter in the most literal sense. For the feds, it will be the latter - not one of them will see home again.

As for the stormies, they might do a bit better, or maybe not. They have repeatedly demonstrated high levels of incompetence and poor accuracy, they would get cut down in their hundreds in the murder-holes leaving the landing craft while the emplaced MGs and mortars hammered away nonstop.

They might eventually win if they could use human wave tactics - they would at least keep coming and keep fighting (unlike the wussy TNG feds who would have a nervous brakedown when they saw men lying with their guts out and limbs blown off.)

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-30 01:56pm

As for the stormies, they might do a bit better, or maybe not. They have repeatedly demonstrated high levels of incompetence and poor accuracy, they would get cut down in their hundreds in the murder-holes leaving the landing craft while the emplaced MGs and mortars hammered away nonstop.

Wrong. Name an example of Stormie incompetence and poor accuracy apart from shooting at main characters or having been issued 'capture them alive' orders.

Stormie armor protects against bullets, especially from long range the MGs won't be able to inflict casualties.
The allies had difficulties landing their armored vehicles.
The Empire has repulsorlift vehicles, no problem for them to land them on the shore.
Imperial small arms have sufficient yield to blast a huge armored vehicle apart (Sandcrawler), no doubt they can do so with bunkers as well.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » 2002-08-30 03:18pm

Well they were pretty damn incompetant against the Ewoks.

There's also the detention area corridor. Main character or not, missing with a bizillion shots against near-stationary characters with no cover, can be construed as nothing but incompetance. And being in the film, it is canon

Also, will you kindly stop going on about the masturbatory warsie fantasy stormtrooper armor. They got killed by rocks being dropped on them. Their armor may be pretty good but it aint all that.

Emplaced heavy machine guns and mortars will make a butchers shop out of stormtroopers just as well as they did with the Americans.

If a mere infantryman's armor was as strong as this masturbatory fantasy suggests, then the armor of a large vehicle (AT-ST) would have laughed at those swinging logs.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-30 04:05pm

Well they were pretty damn incompetant against the Ewoks.

vast numerical advantadge, captured AT-ST, near perfect camouflage.
The only sign of incompetence where that they had their white armor on.

Also, will you kindly stop going on about the masturbatory warsie fantasy stormtrooper armor. They got killed by rocks being dropped on them. Their armor may be pretty good but it aint all that.

How do you know they were killed and not merely knocked out by the concussion?
Possibly a hit from a bullet at the head would knock them out, but not kill them. Especially from long range.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-08-31 12:21am

Gunner wrote: If a mere infantryman's armor was as strong as this masturbatory fantasy suggests, then the armor of a large vehicle (AT-ST) would have laughed at those swinging logs.

An AT-ST isn't a large vehicle. An AT-ST is a freakin HMMWV.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-08-31 01:22am

Evidence Gunner show us where a 7.92 bullet will punch through the armor of a Stormtrooper. The detention block scene the Troopers were missing ON PURPOSE.Tarkin and Vader wanted them to escape so they could find the Rebel base.Also how much did those frelling Logs weigh> they had time to drop and gain momentum before hitting the SIDES of the AT ST and if you know anything bout AFVs the side armor is weaker than the front and they are scouts.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-31 01:23am

Gunner wrote: If a mere infantryman's armor was as strong as this masturbatory fantasy suggests, then the armor of a large vehicle (AT-ST) would have laughed at those swinging logs.

Today we have body armor that could provide the claimed resistance of Stormtrooper armor. Heavy, but in widespread use for ordnance disposal teams.

We don’t however have any light scout cars or recon tracks that could take those log hits. Something like a Saber or BDMR would be utterly crushed by those log hits, juts like the AT-St. Notice that the armor was not penetrated, but simple crushed in word. That shows that the armor had the resistance, but the support members failed.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-01 11:59am

Gunner wrote:Well they were pretty damn incompetant against the Ewoks.

There's also the detention area corridor. Main character or not, missing with a bizillion shots against near-stationary characters with no cover, can be construed as nothing but incompetance. And being in the film, it is canon

...and a diversion, which was already mentioned. You simply ignored it. Where do they make these clueless newbie models, and do they come with an off button?

Also, will you kindly stop going on about the masturbatory warsie fantasy stormtrooper armor. They got killed by rocks being dropped on them. Their armor may be pretty good but it aint all that.

Flamebait, ignorance of collision effects, and machosism. Nothing new under the sun.

Emplaced heavy machine guns and mortars will make a butchers shop out of stormtroopers just as well as they did with the Americans.

"...and that'th becauthe I THAY THO!!!"

If a mere infantryman's armor was as strong as this masturbatory fantasy suggests, then the armor of a large vehicle (AT-ST) would have laughed at those swinging logs.

The armor of the SW equivalent of a jeep, whose plating actually retained its rough shape. Oooo, what a devastating argument.