Can ICBM's actually stop an Imperial Invasion

[Omega-13]

If the Imperials actually decided to land an invasion force lets say in Europe or wherever, would ICBM's actually be able to stop them?

Numbers aren't really important, the more of them, the more ICBM's, but just in principle.

If it was an air-burst, the PSI would come down hard on the walkers and troopers. When the 50 MT device went off in 1961, near the blast site, it was measured at 300 PSI, now the russians have 20 MT ICBM's, the americans smaller, but still powerful.

Or lets say it was a ground burst, detonates on impact with the ground, it would inject particles of earth and rock hundreds of thousands of miles an hour, not to mention the heat.

So would the ICBM's have to get a direct hit on the Imperial Walkers? How about the troops? What could they withstand?


Somethings to think about,

The way I envision it is, I don't think Air bursts would be as effective, mainly because the Walkers material is extremly tough, i think ground bursts would be more effective. I Don't think the ICBM's would need a direct hit either, somewhere within a km or 2 from the walkers, would destroy them, your thoughts?

[Alyeska]

If the Imperial Force just landed ground forces (assuming its just a handful of ISDs or a single SSD) and no air or space support, the combined militaries of the world would be able to decimate such forces. Tossing in fighters and space fire support just ruins the whole thing. ICBMs being fired at ships (which they can't) would do nothing and Tie's could simply outmanuever or outrun missiles. The only weapon the that could be used against Tie's are weapons like the AIM-47 with its 250KT airburst warheads, and we don't got any more of those.

[Darth Wong]

If the Imperial Force just landed ground forces (assuming its just a handful of ISDs or a single SSD) and no air or space support, the combined militaries of the world would be able to decimate such forces.

Their numbers are obviously far too small. A few thousand troops against a world is a ridiculous contest (except in Trek, where 2000 Romulans can be sent to conquer the entire planet Vulcan).

Tossing in fighters and space fire support just ruins the whole thing. ICBMs being fired at ships (which they can't) would do nothing and Tie's could simply outmanuever or outrun missiles. The only weapon the that could be used against Tie's are weapons like the AIM-47 with its 250KT airburst warheads, and we don't got any more of those.

There would be no battle. Any competent spacefaring race could conquer the Earth by simply annihilating the capital city of one major nation (say, wiping out Washington DC) and then informing the rest of the population to surrender or face death from above.

[Mr Bean]

There's acutal mention of this during one of the Lando series where the Imperal Fleet tries to take-over a world about thirty years ahead of us(They started expoling thier solar system and devopled Fusion) and anyway they staged a landing because they wanted the planet and accoring to remberances they ended up with nearly 90% Fatailites over the first three days of invasion

[HemlockGrey]

The fuck?

I would think AT-ATs would easily resist basic nuclear strikes. Simply achieve air superiority with TIE Defenders or Gunboats, send in Bombers to nail launch sites, blow bunkers to shrapnel, and destroy major fortifications, then land the AT-AT's.

Game over.

[Mr Bean]

I would think AT-ATs would easily resist basic nuclear strikes. Simply achieve air superiority with TIE Defenders or Gunboats, send in Bombers to nail launch sites, blow bunkers to shrapnel, and destroy major fortifications, then land the AT-AT's

They wanted the Landscape intact, Oh and this would be roughly a year after the Empire's rise to power meaning still on the LAATs and such, no AT-ATs yet

[Alyeska]

The fuck?

I would think AT-ATs would easily resist basic nuclear strikes. Simply achieve air superiority with TIE Defenders or Gunboats, send in Bombers to nail launch sites, blow bunkers to shrapnel, and destroy major fortifications, then land the AT-AT's.

Game over.

Notice the thread creator said Land invassion. That typically means no space support, and that includes fighters. That means the Empire is restricted to ground equipment, and possibly atmospheric craft.

[HemlockGrey]

I was talking about the incident Bean mentioned.

[Sea Skimmer]

If the Imperials actually decided to land an invasion force lets say in Europe or wherever, would ICBM's actually be able to stop them?

Numbers aren't really important, the more of them, the more ICBM's, but just in principle.

If it was an air-burst, the PSI would come down hard on the walkers and troopers. When the 50 MT device went off in 1961, near the blast site, it was measured at 300 PSI, now the russians have 20 MT ICBM's, the americans smaller, but still powerful.

Or lets say it was a ground burst, detonates on impact with the ground, it would inject particles of earth and rock hundreds of thousands of miles an hour, not to mention the heat.

So would the ICBM's have to get a direct hit on the Imperial Walkers? How about the troops? What could they withstand?


Somethings to think about,

The way I envision it is, I don't think Air bursts would be as effective, mainly because the Walkers material is extremly tough, i think ground bursts would be more effective. I Don't think the ICBM's would need a direct hit either, somewhere within a km or 2 from the walkers, would destroy them, your thoughts?

Megaton weapons period are extremely rare, the number 20-25 megaton devices even in the peak of the cold where could be counted on one hand. 95% of the worlds nuclear bombs are 500 kilotons or less, 4.5% of the others are 5 megaton or less.

Anyway the Imperials should be able to shoot down most the boosters before they MIRV if they have ships in orbit.

[Master of Ossus]

AT-AT's can withstand proximity blasts from thermonuclear weapons. It is unclear how ICBMs would fare, but since so many countermeasures exist for such weapons in SW I would be surprised if they didn't do more damage to European ground troops than they did to the Imperials (who are protected from fallout).

[Omega-13]

Ok guys, don't run off topic, its not if the Imperials could take over the world, lets not get off what I wanted answered, the question was, do Nuclear Weapons work against ground units

[Omega-13]

AT-AT's can withstand proximity blasts from thermonuclear weapons. It is unclear how ICBMs would fare, but since so many countermeasures exist for such weapons in SW I would be surprised if they didn't do more damage to European ground troops than they did to the Imperials (who are protected from fallout).

I just find it highly doubtful that they could, how close are we talking here? The blast might even push the walkers over, if the PSI lets say is 150, near the blast point,

and the side of the walker is 60 feet long, and 30 feet high, (very rough, but giving you a point) we are not counting the leg surface area, but just roughly

thats a side surface area of 259,200 inch.^2 * 150 PSI

38,880,000 lbs, impact on the side of the walker, or 17,672 tons in a fraction of a second, u think its going to stand upright?
impossible.

[Master of Ossus]

In Isard's Revenge, four AT-AT walkers are moving relatively close to one another. It is stated afterwards that Rogue Squadron could have destroyed them with four proton torpedoes (1 per walker). If a proximity explosion were enough to destroy them, we would have expected to hear about how they could have destroyed them all with one or two torpedoes. Your speculation is overriden by official evidence.

[Omega-13]

In Isard's Revenge, four AT-AT walkers are moving relatively close to one another. It is stated afterwards that Rogue Squadron could have destroyed them with four proton torpedoes (1 per walker). If a proximity explosion were enough to destroy them, we would have expected to hear about how they could have destroyed them all with one or two torpedoes. Your speculation is overriden by official evidence.

what is the yield of a proton torpedo,

[Master of Ossus]

Between 250 and 750 MT. Probably much closer to the lower end.

[Darth Wong]

In Isard's Revenge, four AT-AT walkers are moving relatively close to one another. It is stated afterwards that Rogue Squadron could have destroyed them with four proton torpedoes (1 per walker). If a proximity explosion were enough to destroy them, we would have expected to hear about how they could have destroyed them all with one or two torpedoes. Your speculation is overriden by official evidence.

Mind you, they might have been small protorps, or they might have been reluctant to use high-yield protorps against ground targets, where the atmosphere would convert the energy into a fireball and shockwave that would cause considerable collateral damage.

[Master of Ossus]

They could have been, but they appeared to be full-sized space combat ones because Wedge did not want to "waste them" on AT-AT walkers. That, to me at least, implied that they were the big kind.

[Omega-13]

They could have been, but they appeared to be full-sized space combat ones because Wedge did not want to "waste them" on AT-AT walkers. That, to me at least, implied that they were the big kind.

It just doesn't make sense, nukes make gigantic crators, why not just put one on ground burst, and have the walks tip over, with the earth gets thrown into the atmosphere, they make 350 foot DEEP crators, thousands of feet wide,
and thats only 5 MT

[Alyeska]

Between 250 and 750 MT. Probably much closer to the lower end.

The Craters alone would be large enough for the things to call into. Given that AT-ATs couldn't even break the cables attached to their legs, the explossive shockwave alone would knock them over. Given that other AT-ATs with subMT weapons can kill AT-ATs. Then you got the Airspeeder blasters that were able to penetrate the top armor of a Walker to kill it.

No, AT-ATs can't take MT firepower like that and if Protons were that powerful a single Proton would be enough to take down entire formations of AT-ATs.

[NecronLord]

They can take it far better than a fed dune buggy

back on topic

Wouldn't the Imps just bring a small theatre sheild

[Omega-13]

Wouldn't the Imps just bring a small theatre sheild

oh yes of course, i was just talking if there was no shield, and the units were exposed

[Omega-13]

No, AT-ATs can't take MT firepower like that and if Protons were that powerful a single Proton would be enough to take down entire formations of AT-ATs.

agreed, the ground would dissapear benneth their feet, they'd fall into a 350 foot hole, come to think of it, the walkers themselves might get tossed up

[NecronLord]

Wouldn't the Imps just bring a small theatre sheild

oh yes of course, i was just talking if there was no shield, and the units were exposed

Therein lies the problem

[Sea Skimmer]

In Isard's Revenge, four AT-AT walkers are moving relatively close to one another. It is stated afterwards that Rogue Squadron could have destroyed them with four proton torpedoes (1 per walker). If a proximity explosion were enough to destroy them, we would have expected to hear about how they could have destroyed them all with one or two torpedoes. Your speculation is overriden by official evidence.

Photon torpedoes are shaped charge weapons. IT makes such comparisons quite pointless. Also in the same incident the walkers are killed by laser cannon fire, which is kiloton range.

[Sea Skimmer]

They could have been, but they appeared to be full-sized space combat ones because Wedge did not want to "waste them" on AT-AT walkers. That, to me at least, implied that they were the big kind.

It just doesn't make sense, nukes make gigantic crators, why not just put one on ground burst, and have the walks tip over, with the earth gets thrown into the atmosphere, they make 350 foot DEEP crators, thousands of feet wide,
and thats only 5 MT

World currently has the whole of 20 5 megaton bombs, and the CEP of the missiles carrying them is twice the diameter of the crater for a low altitude burst.