Stormtroopers vs. Romans with military "advisors"

[Renewed_Valour1]

Side I:
Stormtroopers:
Command: Thrawn
7,000 Stormtroopers (Plus Support Personnel)
50 AT-STs
100 Speederbikes

Each Stormtrooper is armed with an E11, assorted sidearms, and their standard amount of thermal detonators. They also have a limited number of Blastech T-21s and mortars around 200 of each. The Stormtroopers start out in Egypt and also have sufficient trained personnel and equipment to maintain their vehicles. They can also receive 50 tons of supplies at their starting point each week and 50
tons of fuel. These supplies however can contain no new weapons; they can not be new or other weapons. They can however contain
spare parts, ammunition, fuel, and similar items. In order to return to the future they need to attack, capture, and hold the city of Rome
for three weeks. They can gather allies if they want to for such an attack and they do have a limited number of protocol droids.

Side II:
Romans:
As they were under the leadership of Augustus Caesar.
SG1 & Andromeda:
SG1: O'Neill in overall command
Andromeda: Hunt & Crew
600 US Soldiers (Plus Support Personnel)
20 M1114 HMMWV*
10 M2A3 IFVs
5 M3A3 CFVs
2 UH-60 Black Hawks
2 AH-6J Little Bird**
*Armament is split between M2 and Mk19s.
** Available armaments for each one. The others except .50 cal can not be resupplied.
- 10 Stinger AAMs
- 10 Hellfire ATGM
- 4 M260 2.75-in Hydra 70 rocket pods
- .50 cal MG pods: Ammunition can be supplied by the resupply deliveries.

The soldiers for the SG1 expedition are armed with an assortment of weapons from the MP-5N to M4s along with sidearms. They also have 50 M249s, 50 M60s, 5 Stinger Launchers, and 50 M2s. They start inside Rome and due to sufficient acts on the part of the entity that transported them there the Romans are convinced they are legitimate. The Andromeda contribution other than the team members is 800 f-lances. SG1 has the same resupply scheme as the Stormtroopers except their supplies arrive in Rome. Their mission is to prevent the Stormtroopers from taking or holding Rome and also to train the Romans. They use some ingenuity to come with weapons systems using their resupply shipments and Roman technology.

Note on Vehicles: If a vehicle suffers a mechanical failure that can't be repaired in the field then it is restored to operating condition immediately for either team. Battle damage is not repaired in this manner and can only potentially be repaired by the support personnel.


Transport and etc. Vehicles (each side):
30 M1078s
10 M1093
10 AMTV
10 M548A3

Each side also has at their starting base a fully equipped field hospital, storage facilities, barracks, and command facilities.

How does it play out?

[NecronLord]

Why, Why oh wiy do we need another Romans post?

Or to be fair, can we have the romans updated as they would be now, if they had done a few things differently. I have several stories based on this, a cross between Sci FI and alternate history Genres. Have to put it up somewhere. Though it would kind of be a roman pushover then.

[HemlockGrey]

The moment you put Thrawn in command of the Imperial forces, you guaranteed an Imperial victory.

[Kuja]

Thrawn will kick ass.

[Mr Bean]

Thrawn however is not a ground Commander, but I'd bet my money on him any day unless he was commanding an Army of 3 Year olds


Ok most of the Weaponry can't scatch the At-Sts, the Hell-fires can phyisacly knock it down

I'd go with as many gernades as possible and blow em to hell as physicly you have a flat battlefield that will be a shooting gallery for the At-Sts

[Renewed_Valour1]

Ok most of the Weaponry can't scatch the At-Sts, the Hell-fires can physically knock it down.

First I have to question the ability of the AT-STs to standup to a modern Hellfire or TOW. The logs at Endor may have had a lot of KE on their side and might have been able to smash up many of today's light vehicles. Smash them into a MBT tank and I'd doubt you'd have the extent of damage they caused to that AT-ST. The TOW missiles mounted on the IFVs and CFVs, or fired from tripods as part of fixed defenses could probably due the trick to bring down an AT-ST. They in turn have a slight range advantage over the AT-STs.

Some of the Roman Siege Engines or other more primitive weapons you could build in that era with some modern help would also be capable of bring down an AT-ST if you could get into range to employ them. You might be able to rig up some primitive land mines if you had the time and knew where to place them. Considering how long it will take them to reach Rome they'll have times to employ some creative options.

I'd go with as many grenades as possible and blow em to hell as physically you have a flat battlefield that will be a shooting gallery for the At-Sts

You're assuming that they can bring all the AT-STs to bear. As I saw it when I created this scenario the Imps will have to split their forces into at least three groups. One to defend their main base and they most likely will need AT-STs of their own to prevent attacks against them and for scouting. Another force will be needed to defend their supply lines and convoys from attacks. A third force will be needed to actually attack Rome. In trying to reach Rome they can either go by galley; which leaves them vulnerable to the Roman Navy or to the helos or they can go the long way overland.

[Darth Wong]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage. Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side and they can easily mow down your men and even your light armour with THEIR small-arms, you have a SERIOUS tactical disadvantage.

Give Thrawn this kind of tactical advantage, and he will clean house.

[Alyeska]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage. Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side and they can easily mow down your men and even your light armour with THEIR small-arms, you have a SERIOUS tactical disadvantage.

Give Thrawn this kind of tactical advantage, and he will clean house.

The M2s and MK-19s will tear through storm troopers with ease.

[Darth Wong]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage. Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side and they can easily mow down your men and even your light armour with THEIR small-arms, you have a SERIOUS tactical disadvantage.

Give Thrawn this kind of tactical advantage, and he will clean house.

The M2s and MK-19s will tear through storm troopers with ease.

The M2 .50cal will knock a stormie down, but it won't tear through his armour. The MK-19 auto-grenade launcher might kill him, but I reiterate that if the enemy can paste anything from infantry to light armour with small-arms fire (never mind the big stuff) and you need heavy weapons to take down his foot soldiers, you have a serious tactical disadvantage.

{EDIT: slightly reworded} And since the scenario gives them mortars and (presumably) all of the various types of mortar ammo they can normally use, I have been overly charitable in not mentioning the chemical weapons they can safely deploy thanks to their sealed NBC suits ...

[Alyeska]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage. Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side and they can easily mow down your men and even your light armour with THEIR small-arms, you have a SERIOUS tactical disadvantage.

Give Thrawn this kind of tactical advantage, and he will clean house.

The M2s and MK-19s will tear through storm troopers with ease.

The M2 .50cal will knock a stormie down, but it won't tear through his armour. The MK-19 auto-grenade launcher might kill him, but I reiterate that if the enemy can paste anything from infantry to light armour with small-arms fire (never mind the big stuff) and you need heavy weapons to take down his foot soldiers, you have a serious tactical disadvantage.

And I haven't even mentioned the chemical weapons they can safely deploy thanks to their sealed NBC suits ...

Considering the visible damage that blasters have shown against other targets, this I doubt seriously. The M2 .50cal is powerful enough to penetrate through the FRONTAL armor of a M113 APC. Now unless you are seriously going to claim that an E-11 has the firepower to take down a modern APC, the M2 is more then enough to kill a Stormie.

[Darth Wong]

Considering the visible damage that blasters have shown against other targets, this I doubt seriously. The M2 .50cal is powerful enough to penetrate through the FRONTAL armor of a M113 APC. Now unless you are seriously going to claim that an E-11 has the firepower to take down a modern APC, the M2 is more then enough to kill a Stormie.

An E-11 has the firepower to take down a modern APC. If they can blast through Death Star walls with them (see ANH novelization), I don't see why they can't blast through an APC's thin armour. And a T-21 would outright pulverize an APC. Be mindful of the way the stormies took down a Jawa sandcrawler; its structure has to be far stronger than an APC just to sustain its own weight.

[Alyeska]

Considering the visible damage that blasters have shown against other targets, this I doubt seriously. The M2 .50cal is powerful enough to penetrate through the FRONTAL armor of a M113 APC. Now unless you are seriously going to claim that an E-11 has the firepower to take down a modern APC, the M2 is more then enough to kill a Stormie.

An E-11 has the firepower to take down a modern APC. If they can blast through Death Star walls with them (see ANH novelization), I don't see why they can't blast through an APC's thin armour. And a T-21 would outright pulverize an APC. Be mindful of the way the stormies took down a Jawa sandcrawler; its structure has to be far stronger than an APC just to sustain its own weight.

That is what the full sized blaster rifle is for.

The E-11 in the movies did not demonstrate firepower greater then that of a .50cal bullet. Just look at the body damage people took who didn't have armor.

IF the armor did defend against the bullet, the person inside would be dead from the shock. The .50cal bullet is really freaking strong and shock damage would kill someone.

[Darth Wong]

That is what the full sized blaster rifle is for.

You don't consider those "small-arms?" The E-11 is an SMG. The T-21 is a SAW. If you can take down heavy armour with a SAW and light armour with an SMG, you have a tactical advantage.

The E-11 in the movies did not demonstrate firepower greater then that of a .50cal bullet. Just look at the body damage people took who didn't have armor.

I take it this means you disregard the power-setting control shown in the diagram on the SWEGWT? Only an idiot would use max-power (meant for doing things such as blowing through doors and walls in the Death Star or a blockade runner) on every shot, thus reducing his refire rate and effective ammo.

IF the armor did defend against the bullet, the person inside would be dead from the shock. The .50cal bullet is really freaking strong and shock damage would kill someone.

That depends on how well it is distributed throughout the body. I refer you once again to the oft-cited quote about a man in stormie armour being hit so hard that he was thrown through the air like a rag doll, and who still survived. A Browning won't do that, so why should it kill him through blunt-force trauma?

[Renewed_Valour1]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage.

I tend to have doubts about the capability of ST armor to stop the armor piercing variety effectors of the f-lances. The more powerful varieties in "Devil takes the Hindmost" went off like RPGs. The actual plasma rounds are even more powerful according to All Systems University.

{EDIT: slightly reworded} And since the scenario gives them mortars and (presumably) all of the various types of mortar ammo they can normally use, I have been overly charitable in not mentioning the chemical weapons they can safely deploy thanks to their sealed NBC suits ...

My original intention was to attempt to keep special weapons out of the debate for both sides. Against Roman forces the mortars could be highly effective though. Against anyone with even a small number of f-lances you'd have to have a large amount of massed mortars to overwhelm the effectors of even a dozen f-lances.

[Master of Ossus]

Well, how powerful are f-lances, how many of them are there in this scenario, and do they have any other functions that would help or hinder them?

[Renewed_Valour1]

Well, how powerful are f-lances, how many of them are there in this scenario, and do they have any other functions that would help or hinder them?

Depends on the effectors being used in them. It tends to range from more powerful than assault rifles up to comparable firepower to an RPG in several episodes. The plasma bolts are more powerful according to the writers but we've only seen them once when Hunt fired them over the head of an attacking force to force them into retreat. In terms of capabilities I'll post over the All Systems Entry for them and then list the other capabilities they've been shown to have on the show.

"FORCE-LANCE: A primary tool and weapon of every High Guardsman, the Force-Lance (commonly called the F-Lance) looks like a harmless metallic tube approximately 1/3 meter in length. But when deployed for battle, it can be extended into a quarterstaff almost two meters long, and when used in melee, the F-Lance can be charged with an electrical current, shocking anyone it hits into unconsciousness. But the F-Lance is more than just a melee weapon. It can also fire a plasma beam, in both the extended and retracted position, which can be used in ranged combat, or as a cutting tool or light source. Finally, the F-Lance can launch a number of self-guided effectors (see effector)."

"EFFECTORS: Tiny attack drones launched by an F-Lance or similar weapon (see below) that can both target opponents and intercept incoming bullets and missiles."

They can also fire a taser like charge over a distance of several meters to disable an opponent. In addition to intercepting bullets they can be set into artillery intercept mode thus acting as a miniature patriot missile battery against mortars or small artillery/missiles. They can be set to fire automatically or remotely fired by signal or voice command. For targeting all we know is that the f-lance has some form of sensors and they project a display of some sort that only the user can see. They are keyed to the users DNA and if an unauthorized person attempts to use it the lance will discharge incapacitating them. The main hindrance is that they are complex enough that you won't be able to use without some fairly extensive training.

[Mr Bean]

F-Lances.. they have less than a dozen tops right? If its just the AD, unless of course your going to be handing them out to the ground troops its still not effective aginst Stormy Fire

You can't intercept a flaming bolt of energy no more than one can prevent a sunburn by firing flack into the air

[Renewed_Valour1]

F-Lances.. they have less than a dozen tops right?

800 of them.

[Master of Ossus]

Their abilities do not seem like they would give the stormtroopers serious difficulty, except for the plasma stream and the ability to fire an RPG like round. Those are the only abilities an f-lance has that appear to have any real chance of injuring a stormtrooper, assuming that the material stormtrooper and clone trooper armor is made of are comparable.

[Alyeska]

Since the Stormies are immune to small-arms fire, this gives them a huge advantage. Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side and they can easily mow down your men and even your light armour with THEIR small-arms, you have a SERIOUS tactical disadvantage.

Give Thrawn this kind of tactical advantage, and he will clean house.

The M2s and MK-19s will tear through storm troopers with ease.

The M2 .50cal will knock a stormie down, but it won't tear through his armour. The MK-19 auto-grenade launcher might kill him, but I reiterate that if the enemy can paste anything from infantry to light armour with small-arms fire (never mind the big stuff) and you need heavy weapons to take down his foot soldiers, you have a serious tactical disadvantage.

{EDIT: slightly reworded} And since the scenario gives them mortars and (presumably) all of the various types of mortar ammo they can normally use, I have been overly charitable in not mentioning the chemical weapons they can safely deploy thanks to their sealed NBC suits ...

I would like to point something out. The MK-19 has less penetrating power then the M2. 40mm grenades can not kill an APC, but .50cal fire can. So if the explossive power of a 40mm grenade can kill a stormie, then the massive penetration power of the .50cal will kill the Stormtrooper as well.

[Howedar]

Unless the Mk-19 is killing through fragmentation into the armor joints.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Heavy artillery or a direct hit from an RPG or TOW will probably take down a stormtrooper, but if you have to use anti-tank weapons to take down individual infantry on the other side

You could probably attack Stormtroopers using primitive napalm. The armor might protect them from the napalm but I doubt the body glove would last very long.

I would like to point something out. The MK-19 has less penetrating power then the M2.

The 25 mm cannon of the M2A3 and M3A3 also should more than do the trick if we assume the Mk19 will penetrate ST armor.

Their abilities do not seem like they would give the stormtroopers serious difficulty, except for the plasma stream and the ability to fire an RPG like round.

Assuming they don't make the unlikely and stupid mistake to melee with someone armed with an f-lance. The main advantage of the f-lance is the effectors have a habit of hardly ever missing.