Palpatine vs Peter: Empire Building

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 04:19pm

On a whim, Q decides to have some fun. He scoop up Peter and Palpatine and dumps them, in order, in three different universe.

Universe One: Earth, circa 2002, starting point Washington D.C. for Peter and Bejing for Palpatine

Universe Two: The Andromeda universe, circa the TV show, starting point Earth for Peter and some backwater planet for Palpatine

Universe Three: The WoT Universe, starting point Illian for Peter and Cairhein for Palpatine

He imbues both of them with the motivation and desire to utterly conquer these universes. To prevent Palpatine's Force powers from earning him too much of an advantage, he makes both contestants immortal; they will not die in any of the three universes.

They each start out with only themselves and clothes which resemble the current fashion in each universe.

Victory is achieved the instant one of them achieves complete domination of the given universe. This means they must have total control over every inhabited continent on Earth, every inhabited planet in the six Andromeda galaxies, and both WoT continents. Domination can take the form of behind the scenes manipulation, outright imperial control, police state, etc.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-05 04:25pm

Who's Peter?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 04:29pm

Peter Wiggin, character in Ender's Game, Shadow of the Hegemon, and, I think, Shadow Puppets.

Think Palpatine as a teenager.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-05 04:33pm

Cyril wrote:Peter Wiggin, character in Ender's Game, Shadow of the Hegemon, and, I think, Shadow Puppets.

Think Palpatine as a teenager.

Actually, think Ender except power hungry, sociopathic, and absolutely ammoral. Later in life he mellowed out a lot but before that he was a real bastard

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-05 04:37pm

In that case...

Scenario 1: Peter tries to take control of the US by wiping out the White House, but accidentily provokes a full-scale battle when he is mistaken for an Al-quieda operative. Meanwhile, Palpy demonstrates his strength to the impressed communist leaders of China. The give him leave to start making a small school for dirksiders. A few years later, he takes control.

Five years later, Pete's dead from a nuke going off in DC to stop him, and Palpatine's armies have finally taken Denver.

Palpy wins.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 04:41pm

Why would Peter be mistaken for an Al-Queda operative? He looks like any other American, and killing ppl is not his style. He'd take over from behind the scenes.

Neither can be killed, btw.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-05 04:44pm

NOW, you add that rule! Well, both of them demonstrate their powers of immortailty and are reveared as gods.

An the Al-queida comment was a joke....

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 04:53pm

Cyril wrote:To prevent Palpatine's Force powers from earning him too much of an advantage, he makes both contestants immortal; they will not die in any of the three universes.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-05 05:05pm

Peter's ammoral and a sociopath but he's not the kind of guy to just attack. In fact he pulled off a manipulation equal to Palpatines in his teens. In he did it without creating a civil war unlike Palpatine.

Peter's smart and slick. Before long he'd be ruling Earth and Palpatine would be exiled forever.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 05:15pm

How would they fare in Andromeda/WoT?

Mr. Mister · Post by **Mr. Mister** » 2002-10-05 05:55pm

Peter Wiggin demonstrates an ability for political maneuver that I would say nearly matches Thrawn's ability for military maneuver. In WOT terms, he's definitely a better politician than any of Rand's advisors.

Despite his early sociopathic tendencies, Wiggin would not resort to outright violence to attain leadership. His modus operandi is clear: he establishes his reputation as an expert and gets himself appointed. If he were, for instance, to take control of the U.S. by violence, it would be through assassination after getting himself appointed into the line of Presidential succession (probably at Sec. State, where he's most qualified). For that matter, sociopathic tendencies do not mean "resorting to killing as the first option".

Achilles might try a bomb, but he does that more as a way of stabbing you in the back.

If Palpatine tried to use his Force powers in the WOT universe, he'd have the Red Ajah down on him instantly (though a time-point and more world info would be nice - would Rand show up, trying to recruit him, for instance?)

Just some thoughts: I'm too lazy to have more.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-05 06:28pm

Tho, the Reds could prolly do nothing to him.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-05 07:13pm

Hmm Papy hearing he's Imoratal Lets out a long demoic Laugh then Graps the Nearest Large Sharp Pointy Thing and Marches on Washington, Slaying all those who stand in his path

For extra fun infect himself with Ebola so all who touch him DIE

Wait... No thats sounds like somone else, who am I thinking of?

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-10-07 11:30am

Well, in this case, Palpatine gets himself some good liutenants, kidnaps Peter, seals him in a metal box, pours in the concrete, and dumps him into the ocean. Then he takes him tim,e reading all of OSCard's novels so he knows how Peter will react.

In the following games, he poisons the thoughts of all the world's leaders against Peter.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-07 08:30pm

Smiling Bandit wrote:Well, in this case, Palpatine gets himself some good liutenants, kidnaps Peter, seals him in a metal box, pours in the concrete, and dumps him into the ocean. Then he takes him tim,e reading all of OSCard's novels so he knows how Peter will react.

In the following games, he poisons the thoughts of all the world's leaders against Peter.

That scenario only works if you assume Peter would be dumb enought to allow himself to be captured. He's smart enough to avoid it.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-07 09:39pm

Cyril wrote:How would they fare in Andromeda?

The Spirit of the Abyss kindly steps in and slaps them around. Thus he ends up with his newest minions. Assuming however that the Lava Lamp overlooks them….

Earth is really backwater busted remnant of a planet controlled by the Dragans. With the destruction of the resistance in “Bunker Hill” there is no real counter to the Dragans. On top of that Peter is a kludge so he won’t get anywhere with the Dragans. Even if they figure out he is immortal they’ll likely just fire him into the sun or dissect him into little pieces to figure out how. Palpy has the advantage right from the start being anywhere but Earth.

Their best bet to gain power is to avoid the Andromeda and the Renewed Systems Commonwealth as much as they can. Hunt and Andromeda would be a powerful addition to any Empire building; however Hunt is a wild card and Trance even more so. With her ability to see perfect possible futures and other futures expect her to be warning Hunt or manipulating events to counter them. I would say their best bet is to stay outside that sphere of influence to build up something capable of challenging the RSC.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-07 09:44pm

I personally think Peter would be running the Dragan Empire within three years.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-07 09:50pm

Cyril wrote:I personally think Peter would be running the Dragan Empire within three years.

Slice diced and chopped up into little bits for being a Kludge. Palpy might be able to intimidate the Dragans with Force Powers but he has no such advantage. Plus a move on the Dragans will tip off the RSC.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-07 09:59pm

He tricked the world into thinking he was an elderly statesman; he can probably trick the Dragans into thinking he's a Nietchene.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2002-10-07 11:09pm

Palpy takes and gets a position in the senate when he starts his politcal victory ... basically he's starting with a good bit of power already. He rises to power by corrupting the government, cleaning up said corruption when he comes to power, and throws money at the military.

Peter starts as a nameless kid on the internet who manages to stop a war, get elected to power as a kid, and preside over the demise of an empire spanning half the globe.

In short Peter does more by force of politics while Palpy does more by force of force.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-09 12:21am

Cyril wrote:He tricked the world into thinking he was an elderly statesman; he can probably trick the Dragans into thinking he's a Nietchene.

How did he trick the world on the statesman bit?

He'll have to deal with the Nietzscheans face to face eventually. He'll fail the two most obvious tests whether he has bone spurs and a genetic test. He also won't find many if any coconspirators in the ranks of the Dragans so bluffing his way very far is going to be very hard.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-10-09 10:56am

It was posted that Peter would not be so stupid as to let himself be caught. Why not? Palpatine is seriously evil, and likely to have contacts and methods at his disposal much more condusive to certain... underground operations than Peter. He could hit Peter before dear Locke knew what was going on. Smart or not, Peter cannot guard himself fro the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-09 11:07am

Smiling Bandit wrote:It was posted that Peter would not be so stupid as to let himself be caught. Why not?

Simple, he take precautions to prevent it. And he's smart enough to know someone's going to try to kill or capture him.

And Peter's no angel himself, he be making shady contactsof his own, I'm sure.

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