Clonetroopers vs. Modern Forces

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-09 10:57pm

Clonetroopers:
10,000 Infantry
500 AT-TEs
1000 AT-STs*

Air Support:
50 LAATs

vs.

Modern: (Dale Brownverse)
10,000 Infantry**
500 M1A2 Abrams
500 M3A3 Bradley CFVs
600 M2A3 Bradley IFVs

Air Support***:
30 EB-52 Megafortress
40 EB-1C Megafortress

The two forces are facing off in a desert with 400 miles separating the two of them. Behind each force 800 miles in the rear is the bases that their respective air support is operating out of.

* Placed in because we never saw the Clonetroopers scout vehicle in action.
** Equipped with the Tin Man Suit and other equipment from "Warrior Class".
*** Outfitted with the full load of Dreamland equipment including plasma yield warheads. Plus tanker support.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-09 11:17pm

The entire modern force would be taken out by the LAATs.

Lets choose to ignore the fact that a clone trooper rifle can easily punch right through a Bradley and probably an Abrams too. And the fact that if their armour is anything like Stormie armour then small arms won't kill them.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-09 11:42pm

weemadando wrote:The entire modern force would be taken out by the LAATs. .

That would be why the modern force has the EB-52s and EB-1Cs

weemadando wrote:And the fact that if their armour is anything like Stormie armour then small arms won't kill them.

These small arms will punch through Stormie armor like a 16" shell through cardboard. They fire a 1lb depleted uranium shell at 3000 km/sec. Even if we assume by some miracle their armor can handle that the person inside of it will be a sloppy paste. Best of all somehow they violate the laws of physics and have minimal recoil…:shock:

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-09 11:47pm

I read Dale Brown. LAATs will still own them.

And yes those rail-guns are nice and will knock down clones, but can a BERP suit take a hit from a weapon that is anti-cap ship capable (AT-TE)?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-09 11:51pm

weemadando wrote:I read Dale Brown. LAATs will still own them.

And yes those rail-guns are nice and will knock down clones, but can a BERP suit take a hit from a weapon that is anti-cap ship capable (AT-TE)?

Suit might take it but the soldier is dead from the shock. 45 Gs taken in a near instant is enough to render someone compeltely combat useless. Those guns will be giving you much more on a very small point. 15 vertical Gs are enough to kill you instantly without even causing any visible damage to the body.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-10 01:14pm

The Dalebrownverse is such a load of merciless technowank ....

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 09:10am

Renewed_Valour1 wrote:These small arms will punch through Stormie armor like a 16" shell through cardboard. They fire a 1lb depleted uranium shell at 3000 km/sec. Even if we assume by some miracle their armor can handle that the person inside of it will be a sloppy paste. Best of all somehow they violate the laws of physics and have minimal recoil…:shock:

I believe the topic said modern forces, not magic forces.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-12 09:23am

Bwahahaha magic forces is right. Dale Brown's a wanker. Rail guns and BERP suits and Megafortresses ... all I can do is groan in dismay at this masturbatory fiesta.

He has his own universe now ... you don't see anyone refer to the Tom Clancy-verse.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-12 11:01am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Renewed_Valour1 wrote:These small arms will punch through Stormie armor like a 16" shell through cardboard. They fire a 1lb depleted uranium shell at 3000 km/sec. Even if we assume by some miracle their armor can handle that the person inside of it will be a sloppy paste. Best of all somehow they violate the laws of physics and have minimal recoil…:shock:
I believe the topic said modern forces, not magic forces.

I believe you just ignored what the thread creator said. Read the astriks information before trying to correct him.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-12 11:02am

Vympel wrote:Bwahahaha magic forces is right. Dale Brown's a wanker. Rail guns and BERP suits and Megafortresses ... all I can do is groan in dismay at this masturbatory fiesta.

He has his own universe now ... you don't see anyone refer to the Tom Clancy-verse.

And LAATs and Clone Troopers with suits the can survive .50cal machinegun fire isn't a masturbatory fest? This is an attempt to give modern forces the required weapons to deal with Cloon Trooper armor.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-12 11:37am

Vympel wrote:The Dalebrownverse is such a load of merciless technowank ....

Gee sounds like just like 200 GT turbolasers… In fact it manages to knock Brown's universe right out of the galaxy for being "merciless technowank"… In fact you could therefore define any Sci-fi or fantasy as "merciless technowank" placing Star Wars right up there with the worse offenders.

weemadando wrote: LAATs will still own them.

The Lancelot missiles of a Megafortress can probably damage and eventually bring down an LAAT.

weemadando wrote:And yes those rail-guns are nice and will knock down clones

Last time I watched RoTJ the Stormtroopers were being killed by rebel blasters. None of the shots that missed during the battle had the same effect that a 3,000 meter/sec one lb depleted uranium shell would have. To give you a comparison the shells are about the same size as but moving three times as fast as those of the GAU-8 Avenger cannon from the A-10.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 01:01pm

Alyeska wrote:I believe you just ignored what the thread creator said. Read the astriks information before trying to correct him.

No, I just said it as it is, it's not modern forces as the topic itself implies, it's magical if anything.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 01:03pm

Alyeska wrote:And LAATs and Clone Troopers with suits the can survive .50cal machinegun fire isn't a masturbatory fest? This is an attempt to give modern forces the required weapons to deal with Cloon Trooper armor.

Why are LAATS and clone troopers masturbatory?
They are only that if you compare them to something else outside it's universe, which seems to be the only thing you are ever capable of.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 01:07pm

The Lancelot missiles of a Megafortress can probably damage and eventually bring down an LAAT

Laats took several hits from Geonosian fighter weapons which have KT range weapons.
What are lancelot missiles?

As for the 200GT comment, you better watch it with such comments if you plain to avoid flame-fests.
Consider this a friendly warning, also consider that I think it's a lie.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-12 01:11pm

This thread title should read 'Clonetroopers vs modern forces plus some imaginary weaponry and support"

And the Clone army can still mop the floor wth them.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-12 01:15pm

The Lancelot missiles of a Megafortress can probably damage and eventually bring down an LAAT.

Like they'll be around long enough to do that? The LAATs went after the wheel droids like bees to honey because they were the most threatening thng. Same case here, you're heavy gun'll be blown away by mini-superlasers.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-12 01:37pm

I stick by my Dale Brown=merciless technowank statement ... all his books are solely based around his embarassing masturbatory fantasizing about modern weapons so fantastically overdone how could it be called anything but technowank. Hell its SUPER TECHNOWANK. Not to mention his books suck- honestly how long has his Mclannawhatever character been kicking around- he's a regular renaissance man- he does everything!

However, I do not call ST or SW 'technowank' (even though ST is much more centered on tech than SW will ever be) because WITHIN THEIR OWN UNIVERSE, it's perfectly normal. However, when someone tosses BS like megafortresses (oh no, a stealthy B-52!!! Run away!!!) and BERP suits (whatever the fuck they are, but I can imagine knowing Dale Brown) in the real world ...

The very notion that a modern force even with this imaginary BS could defeat a clonetrooper army is quite laughable.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-12 02:34pm

Without a couple brigades of Nike Hurk or S-300V's SAM' with nuclear warheads for protection, and a crapload of rocket and tube artillery, the "Modern" force is completely and utterly fucked.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-12 02:44pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:Laats took several hits from Geonosian fighter weapons which have KT range weapons.What are lancelot missiles?

A Lancelot missile has either a conventional warhead or a plasma yield, which a form of nuclear weapons. A plasma yield vaporizes all matter within the sphere of influence of that warhead into plasma.

Battle Born: PG 33 wrote:
"You make it sound so damned peaceful, so natural, like a flower blooming or a sunrise," a senator said acidly. "We're talking about a killer weapon here General. Let's not forget that." He paused for a moment then asked, "So what happens to the matter, the solids, … oh hell you know the buildings, the people, who get hit by this thing? What happens? Where do they … well, go?"

"They become plasma-that's the simple answer," Marshall responded. "The plasma field takes matter, absorbs energy, and converts it to ionized gas. The target is … well just not there anymore, at least not in a form that our senses can detect."

IG-88E wrote:The LAATs went after the wheel droids like bees to honey because they were the most threatening thng. Same case here, you're heavy gun'll be blown away by mini-superlasers.

Which worked all so effectively in the movie against aerial targets. That LAAT just blew those fighters out of the air with the microsuperlasers. Anyway the superlasers are line of sight weapons the EB-52s and EB-1 both use over the horizon weaponry.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 03:09pm

Which worked all so effectively in the movie against aerial targets. That LAAT just blew those fighters out of the air with the microsuperlasers.

Oh yeah the novellization says they're out of ordinance then.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-12 03:26pm

So the LAATs blast the enemy's big guys, running out of ordinance, but still taking out all the most dangerous enemies? That's acceptable.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-12 04:30pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:Oh yeah the novellization says they're out of ordinance then.

The movie says they are out of missiles. Unless the rule of canon in Star Wars have changed without my knowing it...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-12 05:09pm

Renewed_Valour1 wrote:The movie says they are out of missiles. Unless the rule of canon in Star Wars have changed without my knowing it...

Or the novellization just expands on what is said in the movie, no contradiction that way, and sadly for you, no reason to claim that the compound lasers suck, but thats not true so you really wouldn't want to claim such things, now would you?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-10-12 06:31pm

The thing that makes SW not technowank is that the technology is not the center of the entire story. Tom Clancy is a minor technowank writer, because of his annoying diversions from the story and characters to talk about guns and equipment.

Dale Brown is a mega-technowank author, because he has no story or characters. He just comes up with a basic scenario, throws in McLanahan, and writes page after page of jizm-soaked prose about the weapons used.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-10-12 09:09pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:Or the novellization just expands on what is said in the movie, no contradiction that way, and sadly for you, no reason to claim that the compound lasers suck, but thats not true so you really wouldn't want to claim such things, now would you?

Then the simple question is why didn't the pilot in the movie happen to say that they were out of ordnance? Better yet why didn't they order the pilot to engage with the compound lasers? Not exactly like the two of them were ever told they were out of ammunition.

It still comes down to trying to engage with a line of sight weapon against someone who is over the horizon.