How would this force do vs the Host of Mordor?

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How would this force do vs the Host of Mordor?

Post by Hammer »

A force consisting of:
  • The USS Wasp with a full complement of marines and helicopters.
  • The USS Kearsarge (Wasp class) with a full complement of marines and helicopters.
  • The USS Enterprise for aircover.
  • A large tanker with a load of fule for the aircraft.
  • A large cargo ship full of ammo of all types, plus copious supplies of commonly-required replacement parts for aircraft.
Gets sent to Middle Earth for an offensive against Mordor. They are sent by a wormhole/stargate/technobabblething and arrive in the ocean to the west of the continent containing Mordor, Gondor, Shire etc, arriving about 100 miles offshore. They already know where their objective and the kind of opposition they may face.

Short term objective (one month window): Penetrate Mordor, storm and occupy the fortress of Barad-Dur, occupy the area around the black gates and the other entrance into Mordor.

Long term objective (six month window): Take the whole land of Mordor under control.

(Wasp class info: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/lhd-1.htm )

The short term objective must be completed as a precursor to the long term.

Can they achieve either objective?
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Post by Mr Bean »

I love the smell of Napam in the moring

Mordor(With the except of the Ten and Mr Big black and Ugly) would go down, and go down hard

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Post by Kuja »

One daisy-cutter over Barad-dur=Sayonara, Mordor!
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Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

The only things that would even pose a threat to the Marines would be the Nazgul, lol
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Post by RayCav of ASVS »

Or we can have Modor vs. an IMPERIAL STAR DESTROYER :P
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Post by Acclamator »

RayCav of ASVS wrote:Or we can have Modor vs. an IMPERIAL STAR DESTROYER :P
Um... yeah.

Tech grunt: "Sir we have entered orbit over Arda, and are in firing range now sir."

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Gunners from all over the ship via intercoms: "Sir, yes sir!"

GMB: "Commence bombardment!"


And so, Mordor ceased to be forever.
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Re: How would this force do vs the Host of Mordor?

Post by greenmm »

Hammer wrote:A force consisting of:
  • The USS Wasp with a full complement of marines and helicopters.
  • The USS Kearsarge (Wasp class) with a full complement of marines and helicopters.
  • The USS Enterprise for aircover.
  • A large tanker with a load of fule for the aircraft.
  • A large cargo ship full of ammo of all types, plus copious supplies of commonly-required replacement parts for aircraft.
Gets sent to Middle Earth for an offensive against Mordor. They are sent by a wormhole/stargate/technobabblething and arrive in the ocean to the west of the continent containing Mordor, Gondor, Shire etc, arriving about 100 miles offshore. They already know where their objective and the kind of opposition they may face.

Short term objective (one month window): Penetrate Mordor, storm and occupy the fortress of Barad-Dur, occupy the area around the black gates and the other entrance into Mordor.

Long term objective (six month window): Take the whole land of Mordor under control.

(Wasp class info: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/lhd-1.htm )

The short term objective must be completed as a precursor to the long term.

Can they achieve either objective?
Not without difficulty.

First, make sure they at least have their standard complements of 6 Harrier II's. Better yet, go for a modified Sea Control Ship option on 1 of them (20 AV-8B's and 6 CH-53's), for a total of 26 Harriers. The Harriers will have a better chance of taking out the Nazgul's winged mounts from long-range than even attack helicopters, and by staying out of range of the Nazgul's evil auras they'll be able to function.

This, of course, is only a temporary problem for the Nazgul, unless some of the pilots happen to be female, since no male pilot/warrior (unless they're nonhuman) can kill a Nazgul.

Basically, the Marines only have a few things going for them:

-- superior weapons, in terms not only of damage but also range
-- superior protection, in that their M113's, let alone any M2's or M1's, will have superior protection for the troopers than the best mail available to Mordor's forces
-- artillery available to the Marines has much better range and killing capabilities than anything available to Mordor

Unfortunately, they have some problems with their opponents:

-- huge number of enemy troops to kill. It's implied that Mordor has hundreds of thousands of troops throughout all of Mordor. And while quite a few are Men and Orcs in mail, a lot of the troops are other things like Trolls, which will be harder to kill.
-- Don't forget the Nazgul; get them close enough, and the Marines will be just as vulnerable to being panicked and driven off.
-- Marine complement from 2 Wasps is only 3,788. That's about half of the force that Aragorn took from Gondor to "assault" the Black Gates... which means their ability to surround their opponents is going to be extremely poor.

Best bet for the Marines is to focus on harrying missions, where they use their mobility to strike and fade. Throw in a lot of air support missions to blow up bridges, take out the gates (if possible), and attack any open clusters of Mordor troops, and they might be able to whittle down the opposition given some time.

Personal recommendation for the ordnance is a lot of Rockeye cluster bombs and cannon shells, with LGB's and iron bombs for heavier targets. They'll do wonders against open-ground troops.

Even if they manage to kill all the orcs and other troops in Mordor, though, I don't know if they're powerful enough to kill Sauron.
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Post by Durandal »

You're assuming that they'd send in their ground forces initially instead of just carpet-bombing the area and sending the marines in for mop-up activity.
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Post by Hotfoot »

What sorts of bombs, however. That's the real question? :twisted:
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Post by Durandal »

Daisy clusters would be a start. Given that Sarumon's power generation facilities are located underground, but are actually exposed, smart bombs could dive straight in and fuck him over royally.

Here's how it could work.

Phase 1: Destroy Sarumon's infrastructure. This is easily accomplished by using the method described above. Bomb the shit out of his exposed underground furnaces to prevent him from manufacturing any kind of heavy artillery or more weapons for his troops.

Phase 2: Wipe out ground forces. This is easily accomplished by long-range artillery bombardment. Set up snipers a mile or so away from Barad-Dur to pick off Sarumon if the opportunity presents itself.

Phase 3: Mop-up actions. Send in the tanks and artillery to dispose of the remainder of ground forces. Bring down the walls protecting Barad-Dur and occupy the area. Set up bases, communications equipment and the like. Use the tower as a beach head to launch an invasion of Mordor.
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Post by Deimos Anomaly »

That force would totally and utterly steamroll Mordor within a week.

Hope Sauron enjoys the brig aboard the Big E.

(Well OK if he has the ring and is in full swipe-ten-men-50-yards mode then they may just have to KILL him rather than go for capture.)
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Enterprise is a poor choice for this, her bomb stocks are a few thousand tons, in Vietnam some carriers shot that off in three days. The Nimitz class has almost twice the tonnage embarked.

Sauron is easily dealt with, find Frodo with a CH-53, grab him, then fly to Mt Doom and shove him out the door.

After that its just mop up. The Marines have such an insane range and firepower advantage its not even funny. Several hundred thousand troops would be a pain, but deprived of their leader and power they will be easy to deal with.

Tens of thousands could be killed just by running them over with M1's or Hovercraft.
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Post by paladin »

Just NUKE the fuckers till they glow!!!! :twisted:
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Post by Mr Bean »

Sauron is easily dealt with, find Frodo with a CH-53, grab him, then fly to Mt Doom and shove him out the door.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

paladin wrote:Just NUKE the fuckers till they glow!!!! :twisted:
With what? Unless we want to jump about over a decade back in time, there are no nukes deployed with USN surface ships or aircraft carriers.
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Post by haas mark »

<~~ Is curious about this little thing we like to call Magic and how it plays into the battle...
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Post by SirNitram »

verilon wrote:<~~ Is curious about this little thing we like to call Magic and how it plays into the battle...
The snipers sent to hit Saruman get killed by an electrical storm + bits of falling mountain.

The Nine cause serious trouble for troops without air support.
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Post by haas mark »

SirNitram wrote:
verilon wrote:<~~ Is curious about this little thing we like to call Magic and how it plays into the battle...
The snipers sent to hit Saruman get killed by an electrical storm + bits of falling mountain.

The Nine cause serious trouble for troops without air support.
Cool.
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Post by Durandal »

The snipers sent to hit Saruman get killed by an electrical storm + bits of falling mountain.
If he knows they're coming. But, this seems likely.
The Nine cause serious trouble for troops without air support.
Simply equipping some troops with flamethrowers will take care of the Nine. Napalming the area prior to sending in ground troops would also do it. Or, you could just run over them with a tank.
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Post by Dargos »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
paladin wrote:Just NUKE the fuckers till they glow!!!! :twisted:
With what? Unless we want to jump about over a decade back in time, there are no nukes deployed with USN surface ships or aircraft carriers.


Suuuuuuuuure theres not nukes on USN Aircraft carriers..... :roll:
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Post by Dargos »

Dargos wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
paladin wrote:Just NUKE the fuckers till they glow!!!! :twisted:
With what? Unless we want to jump about over a decade back in time, there are no nukes deployed with USN surface ships or aircraft carriers.


Suuuuuuuuure theres no nukes on USN Aircraft carriers..... :roll:
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Post by phongn »

By order of President Bush (the first one) the US military was stripped of its tactical nuclear weapons. That includes the carrier force, the surface combatants, the fast-attack submarines, most of the USAF (except the B-52H and B-2A) and the entire US Army.

Carriers were not tasked for strategic nuclear attack since the Eisenhower Administration (JFK switched them over to conventional/tacnuke roles).
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Post by greenmm »

Dargos wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
paladin wrote:Just NUKE the fuckers till they glow!!!! :twisted:
With what? Unless we want to jump about over a decade back in time, there are no nukes deployed with USN surface ships or aircraft carriers.


Suuuuuuuuure theres not nukes on USN Aircraft carriers..... :roll:
Even if they still had nukes on USN carriers, it would be irrelevant. The Wasp and Kearsage not only are amphibious assault ships (as opposed to full-fledged carriers), but any offensive aircraft they carry are flown by USMC pilots and not USN pilots -- and last time I checked, the USMC never had access to nukes.
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Post by phongn »

CVN-65 Enterprise is with them, so yes, there could be nukes if we go back to the 1980s USN.
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Post by greenmm »

Durandal wrote:You're assuming that they'd send in their ground forces initially instead of just carpet-bombing the area and sending the marines in for mop-up activity.
Carpet-bomb with what?

The last time carpet bombing was carried was during the Vietnam War, and required the humongous B-52's to pull it off because none of the tactical aircraft had that kind of payload. And while you might be able to match a B-52's payload by using the full air wing of a Wasp, that's only one B-52's worth, not a full squadron's worth at a time.

And we also know how effective carpet-bombing was against a less technologically advanced enemy in Vietnam was...
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