ISD-II vs Wing Commander ships

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2002-11-04 06:38am

Fully loaded out ISD-II against

Midway-Class Mega Carrier
1 Plunkett-Class Artillery Cruisers
2 Murphy-Class Destroyers

Assuming they both have full knowledge of each other and both commanders are tactical equals.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-04 07:22am

Calcs for the Wing Commander ships? I played WC1,2,3,4,Prophecy, and the secret ops campaign as much as the next guy ... but what are the calcs?

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-11-04 08:00am

To my memory the WC ships have like 12 fighters on board or something and their cap ships aren't that hot. Dunno 'bout calcs.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-11-04 08:04am

Calcs I've seen still leaves the WC universe a good bit short of being competetive with SW.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-04 10:41am

Crazy_Vasey wrote:To my memory the WC ships have like 12 fighters on board or something and their cap ships aren't that hot. Dunno 'bout calcs.

The Midway-class Carriers carry something like 200-300 fighters fully loaded. The Plunkett-class Cruisers and Murphy-class Destroyers have a few fighters (perhaps a squadron for each, maximum).

At any rate, the ISD kills all four of them.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-11-04 11:52am

I'm guessing that number of fighters didn;t come from the game?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-04 12:24pm

The manual to Wing Commander Prophecy tells the max loadout of the Midway, but I don't have it with me. The Murphy DD and Plunkett CA have fighters as seen in certain WC:SO missions.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-11-04 12:33pm

Ah fair enough, I stopped playing Wing Commander after number 3.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-04 01:44pm

The Midway is rated at about 250 fighters. It also has a Marine compliment, size unknown but probably brigade strength. Each Plunkett has 15 Tigersharks or Excaliburs. Thats 280 fighters against the ISD-IIs 72 fighters. Figure 1/5 of the WC fighters are strike craft (Shrike and Devesator bombers, Tigershark multi role fighters equiped with bombs). Thats at least 56 bombers, and we already know that Panther and Vampire fighters can act as strike fighters to take down enemy defenses.

Question is, can the WC torpedoes and strike missiles punch through SW shields? We know they match frequencies in WC to punch through shields (takes time to determine the frequency), could they do the same to SW shields? If so, thats a fairly strong warhead striking the ISDs armor, comparible to SW fighter grade warhead systems IIRC.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-04 04:11pm

Alyeska wrote:The Midway is rated at about 250 fighters. It also has a Marine compliment, size unknown but probably brigade strength. Each Plunkett has 15 Tigersharks or Excaliburs. Thats 280 fighters against the ISD-IIs 72 fighters. Figure 1/5 of the WC fighters are strike craft (Shrike and Devesator bombers, Tigershark multi role fighters equiped with bombs). Thats at least 56 bombers, and we already know that Panther and Vampire fighters can act as strike fighters to take down enemy defenses.

Your forgot about the complement of the Murphies. They can carry some as well.

The only reason that the fighters in WC can even do wild-weasel missions is because capship weapons appear to be unshielded. For whatever reason they're exposed.

Question is, can the WC torpedoes and strike missiles punch through SW shields? We know they match frequencies in WC to punch through shields (takes time to determine the frequency), could they do the same to SW shields? If so, thats a fairly strong warhead striking the ISDs armor, comparible to SW fighter grade warhead systems IIRC.

I'm not sure; there is a lack of information here.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-04 05:07pm

I'm not sure; there is a lack of information here.

Let me help you, Do you think if they could match frequenceys they would?

SW Shields are not ST or WC, They ARE shields not flickering light-bulb thingys

You can't match frequences with them any more than you can teach a Turtle Quantum Mechanics

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-04 06:58pm

Mr Bean wrote:
I'm not sure; there is a lack of information here.
Let me help you, Do you think if they could match frequenceys they would?

SW Shields are not ST or WC, They ARE shields not flickering light-bulb thingys

You can't match frequences with them any more than you can teach a Turtle Quantum Mechanics

Well, I do know the Confed also designed types of torpedoes that "punch" through shields and armor to damage the inside of the ship. They make a small hole as they blast through IIRC.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-04 06:58pm

phongn wrote:Your forgot about the complement of the Murphies. They can carry some as well.

Actually I didn't. The source I have for information does not list the Murphy's as being able to carry fighters.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-04 07:10pm

Well, I do know the Confed also designed types of torpedoes that "punch" through shields and armor to damage the inside of the ship. They make a small hole as they blast through IIRC.

This is nothing new, Its called Shaping a Charge and/or simple delayed expolsives

We(Meaning us today) have had them since 1930s, Sea Skimmer correct me if I'm wrong

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-04 07:16pm

Mr Bean wrote:
I'm not sure; there is a lack of information here.
Let me help you, Do you think if they could match frequenceys they would?

SW Shields are not ST or WC, They ARE shields not flickering light-bulb thingys

You can't match frequences with them any more than you can teach a Turtle Quantum Mechanics

Give the turtle a typewriter and he could write for ST.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-04 07:47pm

phongn wrote: The only reason that the fighters in WC can even do wild-weasel missions is because capship weapons appear to be unshielded. For whatever reason they're exposed.

Probably because they have to be able to fire out. Since they aparently open a portal in them to fire out of, they have to stick them outside of the shield.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-04 09:43pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Well, I do know the Confed also designed types of torpedoes that "punch" through shields and armor to damage the inside of the ship. They make a small hole as they blast through IIRC.
This is nothing new, Its called Shaping a Charge and/or simple delayed expolsives

We(Meaning us today) have had them since 1930s, Sea Skimmer correct me if I'm wrong

This is more of a 'match frequencies and slip through phase shields' than 'concentrate firepower in hole and punch through'

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-04 09:43pm

Alyeska wrote:
phongn wrote:Your forgot about the complement of the Murphies. They can carry some as well.
Actually I didn't. The source I have for information does not list the Murphy's as being able to carry fighters.

Ah. Odd, because in the game you seem them send out some fighters.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-04 10:14pm

Alyeska wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:
I'm not sure; there is a lack of information here.
Let me help you, Do you think if they could match frequenceys they would?

SW Shields are not ST or WC, They ARE shields not flickering light-bulb thingys

You can't match frequences with them any more than you can teach a Turtle Quantum Mechanics
Well, I do know the Confed also designed types of torpedoes that "punch" through shields and armor to damage the inside of the ship. They make a small hole as they blast through IIRC.

Such would almost certainly not be effective against a SW ship. Also note that the huge weapon designed to destroy Kilrah did not even have a charge of one gigaton. It is clear that the weapons of WC are not competitive with many other sci-fi universes.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-04 10:17pm

phongn wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
phongn wrote:Your forgot about the complement of the Murphies. They can carry some as well.
Actually I didn't. The source I have for information does not list the Murphy's as being able to carry fighters.
Ah. Odd, because in the game you seem them send out some fighters.

Well, that settles that issue.

Given its size though I wouldn't think much more then 15. Given that Plunketts are sized even worse for holding fighters then a Murphy, I could see 15 fighters on the Murphy just as is on the Plunkett.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 07:35am

Could the Midway's wierd crystalline main gun take on an ISD?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-05 01:15pm

WC capital ships are notoriously vulnerable to starfighter attacks. I doubt they could stand up to the heavy TL's and medium TL's of the ISD-II. The only chance the WC forces would have is if they could swarm the ISD and launch multiple missile barrages against one section of the ISD's shields. If they can penetrate they may have a chance, otherwise, the ISD and the Ties will win. I doubt they could penetrate the ISD's shields.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-05 01:18pm

don't forget the wing commander fighters are much larger then imperial fighters, even the light fighters are larger then the x-wing and Tie avenger fighters.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-05 01:51pm

starfury wrote:don't forget the wing commander fighters are much larger then imperial fighters, even the light fighters are larger then the x-wing and Tie avenger fighters.

Not entirely correct.

http://www.wcnews.com/ships/wcpvampire.shtml

WC fighters as of WC: Prophecy have gone down in size significantly while retaining greater combat capability over the older fighters. The Vampire is the main space superiority fighter of the Confederation and its only 18 meters long. Their medium bomber is 28 meters long and the heavy bomber is 36 meters long. They have some fighters as short as 11 meters long and most fighters range from 12-16 meters long.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-11-05 01:53pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:WC capital ships are notoriously vulnerable to starfighter attacks. I doubt they could stand up to the heavy TL's and medium TL's of the ISD-II. The only chance the WC forces would have is if they could swarm the ISD and launch multiple missile barrages against one section of the ISD's shields. If they can penetrate they may have a chance, otherwise, the ISD and the Ties will win. I doubt they could penetrate the ISD's shields.

WC capships are vulnerable to fighters that carry anti-capship torpedoes that are designed to bypass or penetrate through their shields. The larger capships carried massive anti-matter guns that battered down other capship shields (and later on Heavy Plasma guns) and if a fighter was ever nailed with either of these guns they would die instantly.

I wonder just how effective the Nephlim Fleet killer or the Confederation class Phase Transit cannon would be against Imperial ships.