US Army versus National Guard, citizens with guns and Canada

[Pu-239]

George Bush has managed to turn the country into a fundie police state. The military is behind him because of huge pay raises, and congress has been dissolved (I know it's inprobable, but who cares). The military is enlarged to 2 million. The state governments are opposed, but have been dissolved. The rebels have 10 hours before bombing runs will be made on major airfields. They also have only 10 hours to get their equipment. The US Army has also started to invade parts of Canada. What now?

[Sea Skimmer]

Stupid scenario, and you ignore the fact that the National Guard is a Federal force. However The State governments would disband the Federal government first and withhold funding until a new one was formed. Huge pay raises wont win over troops when retribution is being taken against there families.

In reality there would be little fighting. In 10 hours most regular US army bases would be under attack by National Guard troops before the troops within could deploy. Few USAF bases would last more then twenty minutes before being overrun.

[willburns84]

False scenario. The Joint Chiefs and every officer and noncom on down will say - "Mr. Bush, that is an illegal order, and we will not obey it. You are an enemy of the Constitution of the United States, now resign without causing more embarassment."

That and the FBI, Secret Service, and every other Federal Law Enforcement Agency will say - "Sir, you're under arrest."

[weemadando]

False scenario. The Joint Chiefs and every officer and noncom on down will say - "Mr. Bush, that is an illegal order, and we will not obey it. You are an enemy of the Constitution of the United States, now resign without causing more embarassment."

That and the FBI, Secret Service, and every other Federal Law Enforcement Agency will say - "Sir, you're under arrest."

Just like they did to Hitler, Stalin and every other despot/dictator of the 20th century. Having you and your family killed vs a few immoral acts and a pay-rise? Which way do you swing?

[MKSheppard]

Just like they did to Hitler, Stalin and every other despot/dictator of the 20th century. Having you and your family killed vs a few immoral acts and a pay-rise? Which way do you swing?

Ando's right......

The real threat to the Army will come from sniping attacks...with random
members out on patrol or working on their M-1s being shot from long
range by guerilla groups.....

[paladin]

George Bush has managed to turn the country into a fundie police state. The military is behind him because of huge pay raises, and congress has been dissolved (I know it's inprobable, but who cares). The military is enlarged to 2 million. The state governments are opposed, but have been dissolved. The rebels have 10 hours before bombing runs will be made on major airfields. They also have only 10 hours to get their equipment. The US Army has also started to invade parts of Canada. What now?

We all party like its 1999.

[Hotfoot]

Wait, the military has been increased AND given a huge pay raise?

And who, pray tell, has been paying for all of this?

US raises hell for about six months, then nobody gets their paycheck because there's no solid source of income because the whole country has been at war with itself, the army falls apart and chaos ensues until a foreign power steps in to try and fix things up again.

[willburns84]

False scenario. The Joint Chiefs and every officer and noncom on down will say - "Mr. Bush, that is an illegal order, and we will not obey it. You are an enemy of the Constitution of the United States, now resign without causing more embarassment."

That and the FBI, Secret Service, and every other Federal Law Enforcement Agency will say - "Sir, you're under arrest."

Just like they did to Hitler, Stalin and every other despot/dictator of the 20th century. Having you and your family killed vs a few immoral acts and a pay-rise? Which way do you swing?

At the risk of sounding like a patriotic ass I must point out that the United States has a far greater tradition of republican style government than those nations / regimes you mentioned. The men and women of the armed forces are pathologically loyal to the oaths they swear, protecting and defending the United States against enemies foreign and domestic.

[willburns84]

And as far as the few immoral acts go...

It always starts with a few immoral acts, and then a few more, and then a few more, and then a few more - until death camps have returned.

There is enough history pounded into our heads to know what the first steps to terrible terrible evil are...

First one might alter evidence to get a "guilty" man into prison.
Then later, one might just manufacture evidence to get a "guilty" man into prison.
Later still, forget the evidence, just get the "guilty" into prison.
Finally - just shoot the "guilty", forget prison...

[Pu-239]

Lets just say the government made money off iraqi oil (I know the scenario is very stupid and improbable)

[willburns84]

Now, I will allow for the following scenario.

The surest way for a democracy / republic to go down the road to repression and murder and depravity and evil is for it to be done very slowly, through many small and tiny steps. Simply by using the legislative and judicial process... Years go by - attitudes change - the faithfullness to the ideals of the past fade away...

A democracy / republic can always turn itself into a repressive murderous regime if the people want it to happen. Start changing laws little by little, start having judges change the way laws are interpretted, and things happen...

Now if *that* were the scenario, then well - the National Guard would have been fully activated by the national government and either shipped overseas or placed in sections of the country they are unfamiliar with. The reasoning - they won't know the people they're going to kill. It's a lot easier to kill a complete stranger than the grocer down the street you've known for fifteen years...

[Hotfoot]

Lets just say the government made money off iraqi oil (I know the scenario is very stupid and improbable)

Still, depending on how the fighting goes, that might not cover the costs of the war for an extended period of time without a lot of outside help. And if the US economy suddenly drops to nearly nothing, you can bet that good chunk of the rest of the world is going to feel it. Remember the stock market crash of '29? This would be WORSE, by a ver significant amount. Such an event would likely send the world economy for a loop. The Internet would be dealt a very serious blow, so much so as to likely be nearly crippled, and almost certainly the United States would be forever destroyed as a nation. It would be, quite literally, the end of the world as we know it. It might take us nearly a hundred years or more to recover from the damage, assuming some foreign power steps in to help us rebuild.

As I said, after a time, when there is no central source of money coming in, everything will fall apart and anyone who can will make a grab for whatever they can get. We'll be in the dark ages, which seems quite in line with the premise of this whole subject.

[Illuminatus Primus]

You'd have to really fuck up the U.S. before the senareo becomes viable.

[Faram]

You'd have to really fuck up the U.S. before the senareo becomes viable.

Wou are missing the point. Parts of the world already thinks you are that fucked up.

[Faram]

Topic move to OT perhaps?