Darth Maul vs. Neo
Moderator: NecronLord
Darth Maul vs. Neo
This is Neo from the movie "The Matrix" before he turned into the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Since Maul can't enter the Matrix, he fights a Hologram (ST style) of Neo, while Neo fights a computerised version of Maul in the Matrix (each "construct" imitates the real verson's actions)
Scenario 1: Maul has his double lightsaber, Neo has lots of guns.
Scenario 2: Hand to hand combat.
Scenario 1: Maul has his double lightsaber, Neo has lots of guns.
Scenario 2: Hand to hand combat.
That reminds me of a question I thought up a while back. Would agents be able to dodge said shotgun pellets as easily as they do bullets?Yogi wrote:It would also dependon if Neo has a shotgun or not. It's hard to block ALL the pellets from a shotgun blast with a lightsaber.
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Neo would stay back and keep firing multiple weapons. If he can stay back, he'll probably win.
Hand to Hand. Neo's speed got Maul beat.
Oh, and agents might be able to dodge a shotgun blast. If they are sufficiently far away, they would probably just dive to the side, instead of standing still and moving their torsos real fast.
Hand to Hand. Neo's speed got Maul beat.
Oh, and agents might be able to dodge a shotgun blast. If they are sufficiently far away, they would probably just dive to the side, instead of standing still and moving their torsos real fast.
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I don't know. Darth Maul's telekinesis could be a deciding factor. I think the two have roughly the same normal fight speed although Neo does go into a weird bullet time type of thing when people shoot at him for a very cool effect.
Darth Maul could just pull the guns out of Neo's hands and then start firing them back at Neo (ala Magneto style) in theory which would be fairly amusing.
Darth Maul could just pull the guns out of Neo's hands and then start firing them back at Neo (ala Magneto style) in theory which would be fairly amusing.
Neo would have to fight hand to hand. Maul would kick his ass. Force rules- he'd be inhibiting Neo's movements.
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I think he was refering to when Jedi fight each other, it's on two levels. While dueling, their minds also contest with each other, as they both try and 'dampen' the other. Prohibiting them from moving too fast...neoolong wrote:Hmm. Why hand to hand? Rifle from long range anyone?Vympel wrote:Neo would have to fight hand to hand. Maul would kick his ass. Force rules- he'd be inhibiting Neo's movements.
Close in though, I forgot about the Force. Force Choke Neo to death.
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I hate Keanu Reeves, but Neo wins both rounds.
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Maul doesn't play fair. He finds Neo's body which is jacked into the Matrix and disembowels him.
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Violates the rules and spirit of the debate.Darth Wong wrote:Maul doesn't play fair. He finds Neo's body which is jacked into the Matrix and disembowels him.
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Pfft Neo dies unless he goes somehow God mode, for if nothing else he(Matrix 1) still think on more human terms.
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Guys, come on yes Neo is fast but, there is a world of difference between being fast and being able to see the future. Plus Neo would have to avoid being force choked, dodge odds an ends throw by the Force (Maul might even able to use force lightning), and a lightsaber weilding maniac, who is also probably fast enough to dodge bullets. Remember how fast the Jedi move in TPM. This is all about Maul, baby...its his world and Neo's just living in it.
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I don't know about Neo being anything like near-human speed. Trinity was able to take on entire SWAT teams without breaking a sweat, when 3 police officers had guns on her she was able to easily kill all 3 before they could get a shot off. As Agent Smith said "No officer, your men are already dead."
Now consider that in his Training Phase they were already commenting that Neo was faster than anybody they'd ever seen. Trinity herself commented that Neo was faster than anybody she'd ever seen.
Maul is faster than any human but not so fast we have to use Bullet-Time cameras to see what he's actually doing, and not so fast that we can't even see his fists as he's punching. Neo definetly is faster.
Remember also that Neo has been trained in every single combat style known to man. Remember that they trained him in Ju-Jitsu in under 5 seconds, and the Tank commented that Neo was still undergoing combat training 10 hours later.
On strength Neo was nearly able to hold up a helicopter, and both he and the Agent were smashing concrete walls with punches and slamming the place apart.
On Durability, Neo took a beating from the Agent who was breaking concrete blocks with his bare hands, and he threw Neo in walls hard enough to shatter them over and over.
Neo's got every combat edge, without weapons Maul can try a force choke but he'll probably already be dead before he gets his hand up to try it. With weapons, as pointed out, Neo can simply shoot him from a mile away with a sniper rifle, or pull out a SAW like Mouse had and find out just how rapidly Maul can block incoming projectiles (If indeed a lightsaber will even block physical weapons, a matter of constant argument around here.)
Now consider that in his Training Phase they were already commenting that Neo was faster than anybody they'd ever seen. Trinity herself commented that Neo was faster than anybody she'd ever seen.
Maul is faster than any human but not so fast we have to use Bullet-Time cameras to see what he's actually doing, and not so fast that we can't even see his fists as he's punching. Neo definetly is faster.
Remember also that Neo has been trained in every single combat style known to man. Remember that they trained him in Ju-Jitsu in under 5 seconds, and the Tank commented that Neo was still undergoing combat training 10 hours later.
On strength Neo was nearly able to hold up a helicopter, and both he and the Agent were smashing concrete walls with punches and slamming the place apart.
On Durability, Neo took a beating from the Agent who was breaking concrete blocks with his bare hands, and he threw Neo in walls hard enough to shatter them over and over.
Neo's got every combat edge, without weapons Maul can try a force choke but he'll probably already be dead before he gets his hand up to try it. With weapons, as pointed out, Neo can simply shoot him from a mile away with a sniper rifle, or pull out a SAW like Mouse had and find out just how rapidly Maul can block incoming projectiles (If indeed a lightsaber will even block physical weapons, a matter of constant argument around here.)
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Moonstone Spider wrote:
Clearly, someone has forgotten that mere technology is no match for the power of the Force.
First off Neo and Trinity are fighting normal humans. In TPM Mauls is fighting two superhumans, and he was winning. You remember standard operating prcedure when you see an Agent right? That right you run, which is what Neo and Trinity do for most of the movie. I should also not that Maul personally (as opposed to using explosives or rnaged weapons) several hundred of the most skilled killer culled from an entire Galaxy.I don't know about Neo being anything like near-human speed. Trinity was able to take on entire SWAT teams without breaking a sweat, when 3 police officers had guns on her she was able to easily kill all 3 before they could get a shot off. As Agent Smith said "No officer, your men are already dead."
Which still won't help him against a guy who can see the future. That and Force users are fast enough in TPM that the disappear in seconds when they flee the droikas.Now consider that in his Training Phase they were already commenting that Neo was faster than anybody they'd ever seen. Trinity herself commented that Neo was faster than anybody she'd ever seen.
Wrong, in The courtship of Princess Leia, Luke uses the force to accelerate his movements during his battle with Guri, to a point that makes bullet time looks slow. Lets say it together: the guy who is able to see the future will always beat the guy who is just fast.Maul is faster than any human but not so fast we have to use Bullet-Time cameras to see what he's actually doing, and not so fast that we can't even see his fists as he's punching. Neo definetly is faster.
Your exagerating and speculating. He did not learn Ju-jitsu, he said Kung Fu. And he says that after having spent hours in the chair. Also at no time to they mention his training in any other martal arts, combat training was but one of the programs that Tank uploaded. For all we know it might not have even been the most extensive, he did also need to catch ups on several centuries of technology (ie. the ship etc.). We don't even have proof that Trinity really learned to fly a helicoptor that quickly. She might have already been a skilled pilot, and the doen load gave her specific information about that particular type. At most Neo know the martial arts of a single planet, Maul likely knows the best moves of several different alien martial arts styles and techniques.Remember also that Neo has been trained in every single combat style known to man. Remember that they trained him in Ju-Jitsu in under 5 seconds, and the Tank commented that Neo was still undergoing combat training 10 hours later.
That was not real you know not even by the Matrix's definition of real, it was a simulation. What is not a simulation is the fact that Maul could have easily used the force to do the same. Unplugged from that VR unit, you could probably kick Neo's ass; but insert you into the world of TPM, and you wouldn't last 10 seconds against a Sith Lord.On strength Neo was nearly able to hold up a helicopter, and both he and the Agent were smashing concrete walls with punches and slamming the place apart.
Maul does not need to touch Neo to kill him. Durability is irrelevant in the grip of a force choke. Outside the VR enviroment Neo's less than nothing.On Durability, Neo took a beating from the Agent who was breaking concrete blocks with his bare hands, and he threw Neo in walls hard enough to shatter them over and over.
Neo would never get to cock that weapon. Jedi and Sith do not need to gesture to use the force, its just cooler that way. The Force is not LOS only. The lightsaber does not need to block bullets. Maul would feel neo through the force, and one on one his precognition keeps him out of harms way.Neo's got every combat edge, without weapons Maul can try a force choke but he'll probably already be dead before he gets his hand up to try it. With weapons, as pointed out, Neo can simply shoot him from a mile away with a sniper rifle, or pull out a SAW like Mouse had and find out just how rapidly Maul can block incoming projectiles (If indeed a lightsaber will even block physical weapons, a matter of constant argument around here.)
Clearly, someone has forgotten that mere technology is no match for the power of the Force.
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That is a good point, but I am unaware as to what your last sentence was in reference to. I would also like to add that as people have pointed out beore in the AotC novelisation, it states that when Jedi do battle they also use the force to 'dampen' their opponents movements, so it would be unlikely that Neo would be able to go 'bullet' dodgy against a Jedi employing this tactic.Spartan wrote:First off Neo and Trinity are fighting normal humans. In TPM Mauls is fighting two superhumans, and he was winning. You remember standard operating prcedure when you see an Agent right? That right you run, which is what Neo and Trinity do for most of the movie. I should also not that Maul personally (as opposed to using explosives or rnaged weapons) several hundred of the most skilled killer culled from an entire Galaxy.Moonstone Spider wrote: don't know about Neo being anything like near-human speed. Trinity was able to take on entire SWAT teams without breaking a sweat, when 3 police officers had guns on her she was able to easily kill all 3 before they could get a shot off. As Agent Smith said "No officer, your men are already dead."
The actual book was in 'Shadows of the Empire' with prince Xezzor (or whatever the fuck his name is) as Guri was his droid.Spartan wrote:Wrong, in The courtship of Princess Leia, Luke uses the force to accelerate his movements during his battle with Guri, to a point that makes bullet time looks slow. Lets say it together: the guy who is able to see the future will always beat the guy who is just fast.Moonstone Spider wrote:Maul is faster than any human but not so fast we have to use Bullet-Time cameras to see what he's actually doing, and not so fast that we can't even see his fists as he's punching. Neo definetly is faster.
Spartan wrote:Clearly, someone has forgotten that mere technology is no match for the power of the Force.
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The ability to see slightly into the future is of no value if the lead-time you see does not allow for sufficient time to react.
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Actually, he did learn Ju-Jitsu, among other forms. Rewatch the scene just before he starts training. Tank throws him a disk. Neo reas the label, Ju-Jitsu. Then there's a montage of Neo's training, showing the names of what he is teaching. They were all martial arts, the only name of which I recall is drunken boxing. It would be safe to say that Neo knows a fair bit about hand-to-hand fighting.Spartan wrote:Your exagerating and speculating. He did not learn Ju-jitsu, he said Kung Fu. And he says that after having spent hours in the chair. Also at no time to they mention his training in any other martal arts, combat training was but one of the programs that Tank uploaded.Remember also that Neo has been trained in every single combat style known to man. Remember that they trained him in Ju-Jitsu in under 5 seconds, and the Tank commented that Neo was still undergoing combat training 10 hours later.
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About Trinity taking out the 3 cops before they got a shot out, they got several shots, one shoots as she's running along the wall, and then she uses him as a human shield and shoots the other with his gun.
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Maul wins. Uses Force Speed to rush into Neo's reach and slash him in half.
The only eay neo could win is if he were running away as quickly as possible firing a Jackhammer in maul's face and even that's pretty iffy.
Or, as WOng said, Maul finds Neo's jacked in corpus and turns it into a nice pot roast.
The only eay neo could win is if he were running away as quickly as possible firing a Jackhammer in maul's face and even that's pretty iffy.
Or, as WOng said, Maul finds Neo's jacked in corpus and turns it into a nice pot roast.
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Except that, obviously, the Jedi precognition lead-time is more than sufficient, given how long Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were fighting.Sea Skimmer wrote:The ability to see slightly into the future is of no value if the lead-time you see does not allow for sufficient time to react.
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