Space Military Nomeclature

[TrailerParkJawa]

In the various sci-fi stories, games, and movies we often see that militaries in space use naval ranks and nomenclature.

In Star Trek they have CPO's, Ensigns, Admirals, etc. In the RPG 2300 the American Space Force specifically uses naval ranks even though it is a seperate branch of service.

Lets assume for a minute that someday the US, or Canada, or any nation has space militaries.

Do you think they would use naval traditions? Ive often thought that any space military might be more likely to be an extention of the Air Force and they might use Air Force ranks or perhaps create new ones.

What do you think?

[David]

I think they'd do the same thing they did when the air forces were invented. Some ranks might chanfe, but most, especially the officiers, would stay the same.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I think they'd do the same thing they did when the air forces were invented. Some ranks might chanfe, but most, especially the officiers, would stay the same.

I agree with you. It makes sense that the officer ranks are more likely
to stay the same.

Another interesting aspect of sci-fi Ive noticed is the idea of boarding
ships after or during battle. While I think this makes great entertainment
I think the "real life" application in space would be rare. Even more rare
than in our world.

In all of WWII I think there were just a hand full of boardings during a real
combat situation. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but most boardings
today are more related to inspections. ( looking for weapons, drugs, etc)

However, I think you could really make a good boarding attempt on
the Enterprise. There always seems to be a way through the shields,
so why not send in 10 flash bang grenades to the bridge followed by
Marines or security troops with shotguns. Federation types seldom if ever
wear body armor despite the tendancy for their crews to be injured by
exploding panels or hurtling chunk of Captains chair.

[Robert Treder]

As far as nomenclature goes, I agree that it would be derived from the Air Force rather than the Navy (unfortunately). This could lead to discrepancies in English, as the American Air Force's ranks are different from the British Air Force's ranks. And seeing as how America would logically be the first of the two to have a Space Force (let's put any nationalistic zeal aside and face facts, all you Britons), would the UK's pursuant Space Force adopt American titles, or would they go ahead and maintain the differing nomenclature?

And about boarding, interesting that in Star Wars we never see any boarding during battle, eh?

[Howedar]

In Star Trek they have CPO's, Ensigns, Admirals, etc

Yeah, and a Chief Petty Officer is not an enlisted rank anymore either

[Steve]

Because, as you know, every member of Starfleet went to the Academy!

[Robert Treder]

hehe, I guess that's true. But are all these Starfleet Academy NCO graduates just bad students or something?

[Sokar]

I'd rather see the use of a 'wet' Navy rank structure for our space based forces. For somer reason the idea of Master Sgt.'s and Colonels commanding what would be termed "Fleet" forces just dosent jive. Just say it out loud "Colonel West in command of Task Force 23.2" it fails to flow
In my opinion the first crews and commanders of our space forces would best be served by drawing them from another service used to cramped quarters and life in a harsh and unforgiving enviroment , the US Navy Submarine Arm.

For Star Wars they do in several instances in the RPG literature talk about the existence of a specialized Space Trooper arm of the Stormtrooper service. Equipped with a heavy powered armor version of the Stormtrooper Armor , assault shuttles and specialized breaching equipment they are fully capable of boarding a ship in the midst of a ship to ship fire fight. However their prefered method it to board an already crippled or immobilized. I believe they are used in the Thrawn Trilogy during the assault on the Slius Van Shipyards as well.

[Enlightenment]

This could lead to discrepancies in English, as the American Air Force's ranks are different from the British Air Force's ranks. And seeing as how America would logically be the first of the two to have a Space Force (let's put any nationalistic zeal aside and face facts, all you Britons),

Given current trends it may very well be the Chinese who get the first manned Space Force. Considering that both the Chinese naval and air forces are--in name at least--part of the army, the rank structure might be quite odd by both naval and western standards.

[Robert Treder]

Given current trends it may very well be the Chinese who get the first manned Space Force. Considering that both the Chinese naval and air forces are--in name at least--part of the army, the rank structure might be quite odd by both naval and western standards.

True, but since we're concerned with English rather than Mandarin, I was talking about the English-speaking contenders, the USA and GB (sorry you Canadians and Aussies). And between the USA and GB, USA will undoubtedly be the first one with a Space Force.

Prove me wrong, future. I enjoy surprises.

[omegaLancer]

Since star/space ship would involve a captian - crew interaction it would only be natural that naval tradition would be follow.. most craft in air force involve either a single pilot or a pilot / gunner (weapon officer).

In a Navy, the customs and regulations have been horn over centuries to provide an enivorment that would allow smooth interaction, in operation of a craft...

[Guest]

IMHO I think it'll be a combination of Naval and Airforce ranks, like on Carriers. The ship ranks will be Naval, fighter pilot and technician ranks will be Airforce. Tho total Airforce rank structure shouldn't be ruled out entirely given the fact that the Navy will have little to do with space-based militaries. The fact that the airforce will be the foundation for a spaceforce is going to likely give rank.

[Darth Cirrocu]

Since star/space ship would involve a captian - crew interaction it would only be natural that naval tradition would be follow.. most craft in air force involve either a single pilot or a pilot / gunner (weapon officer).

Heh. Except for most cargo and tanker aircraft, with crews of 3-4 (or more), AWACS, with crews of 10+, etc.

But I must agree that a Space Force would most likely end up with a naval structure once the ships were big enough. Early on, it would probably follow the Space Shuttle model.

Speculation.

[master_yoda]

In the various sci-fi stories, games, and movies we often see that militaries in space use naval ranks and nomenclature.

In Star Trek they have CPO's, Ensigns, Admirals, etc. In the RPG 2300 the American Space Force specifically uses naval ranks even though it is a seperate branch of service.

Lets assume for a minute that someday the US, or Canada, or any nation has space militaries.

Do you think they would use naval traditions? Ive often thought that any space military might be more likely to be an extention of the Air Force and they might use Air Force ranks or perhaps create new ones.

What do you think?

Yeah,probably.

[quest]

IMHO I think it'll be a combination of Naval and Airforce ranks, like on Carriers. The ship ranks will be Naval, fighter pilot and technician ranks will be Airforce. Tho total Airforce rank structure shouldn't be ruled out entirely given the fact that the Navy will have little to do with space-based militaries. The fact that the airforce will be the foundation for a spaceforce is going to likely give rank.

I doubt those are American carriers. The USAF does not fly off of carriers. Only Marine and Naval aviators fly off the carriers. Naval aviators use the Naval rank structure.

[JJP]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that in Starship Troopers (the movie anyway) the fleet used air force ranks.

(By the way, if you want to see a picture of the very cool looking Spacetrooper, go here-

http://tiger887.tripod.com/ExtraPics/sp ... erspec.jpg

[Xuenay]

And about boarding, interesting that in Star Wars we never see any boarding during battle, eh?

Err, was that sarcastic?

Princess Leia's Corvette in the beginning of A New Hope. If that wasn't a boarding battle, I don't know what is.

[GreenZXZ]

For a true analogy with military forces, space is like a new ocean and planets land. Therefore, a Space Force would be more like a navy, the Navy and Air Force will be merged into the Army for "Terrestial Forces". The Air Force will only be revived if there are "superspaces" that the Air Force specifically travel in, and submarines travel in "subspace" Maybe?


What position are given to astronauts? Naval or Aerial?




And I think what happened in ANH was a boarding, but what people here are talking about is like the boarding like that of pirates or galleys (like on Mike's Naval Tactics page).

[Robert Treder]

NASA is not a military organization, so astronauts do not have a specific branch of service, but the astronauts who are military officers are generally from the Air Force.

And yes, the Tantive IV was boarded, but not during combat. It had been neutralized, remember?

[Mr Bean]

Robert....

Umm is not the general idea with any boarding to first neutrilise the ship then send aboard boarders to capture it?

Why would anyone say

Sir their shields are down!
Good start the boarding now!
But sir their weapons systems are offline!
What? They can't keep shooting at us while we send over boarders?
No Sir!
Drat quick! Send of a squad of Engineers to repair there guns once they've had an hour or two we can start the boarding!
It will be done!



Think about what you said for a second

[Xuenay]

Umm is not the general idea with any boarding to first neutrilise the ship then send aboard boarders to capture it?

*nods* And, at least going by the computer games, disabling a ship first is indeed necessary in order to board it.

[Robert Treder]

That's precisely what I'm saying. Xuenay said that they were boarding during battle, and I said they weren't.

[Xuenay]

Does the question of whether it was during combat or not have any actual relevance, or are we just arguing semantics for the sake of it? The Star Destroyer assaulted the Tantive IV, disabled it, pulled it in with a tractor beam, and sent hordes of stormtroopers through to kill anybody who was resisting. That sounds like a battle to me.

[Robert Treder]

Yeah, it is a battle for the stormtroopers and marines, and it was a battle between the ships...the point in contention is that it was not a Ye Olde Pirate jump-on-to-the-other-guy's-ship in the middle of combat boarding.
As Biggs pointed out, they weren't fighting when the boarding was taking place.

[Shadow]

IMHO I think it'll be a combination of Naval and Airforce ranks, like on Carriers. The ship ranks will be Naval, fighter pilot and technician ranks will be Airforce. Tho total Airforce rank structure shouldn't be ruled out entirely given the fact that the Navy will have little to do with space-based militaries. The fact that the airforce will be the foundation for a spaceforce is going to likely give rank.

I doubt fighters would be used in space.