Helm's Deep - Klingons

[Stravo]

As my other post:

You have the Klingons replace the Riders of Rohan. I believe that the movie said that there were something like 300 Rohiriim in the fight. So substitute that with 300 Klingons, armed only with Batleths and other edged weapons, to be kind to our ridged friends add the Elven forces that joined in the movie.

Now you have a Vorta leading the Uruk Hai.

The Klingons have to hold out long enough for a strike team of "elite" red shirts to arrive to save the day.

Thoughts?

[Demiurge]

The klingons win through superior swordsmanship.

[Howedar]

I would expect the Klingons to anticipate explosives much better than the Rohiriim. They are almost certainly stronger and more resiliant than a man in his prime, and certainly better than the old men and boys deployed by the Rohiriim. I don't think that 300 would be enough to defend the fortress, but I don't think that 300 was enough Rohiriim either.

The Klingons do rather better than the Rohiriim.

[Sea Skimmer]

Assuming the Klingon's grab some local swords and weapons, and actually stay behind the walls rather then lining up in front of them and changing, two things which are unlikely to happen, they would do about as well as the men.

More likely the Orc's hack and poke them to death, as the worst hand-to-hand weapon ever proves no match for cross bows and pikes in the open.

[Darth Wong]

The Klingons don't have any guns in this scenario, so they're stuck with bat'leths. The bat'leth is a horrible melee weapon. They do worse than the men of Rohan. Their strength is also overrated; Kira and Dax were seen laying mighty Klingon warriors out with no more difficulty than fellow Klingons.

In short, they aren't superhuman and their melee weapons suck. And what good will it do them to anticipate the bombs? They don't have their disruptor pistols, and the accurate use of a longbow requires years of experience which they don't have. The elven archers would be the only skilled archers now, so the Klingons would basically get ass-raped by the Uruk-hai.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

An interesting debacle. On the one hand we have the physically superior Klingons, but are unfortunatley short-changed in the mentally superior department. Stravo dictates the Klingons wield Ba'leths, so that detracts somewhat from there position. But we must remember many of the warriors that were participating at Helms Deep were old men and young boys. Even if we assume an average male human is on equal footing with an average male Klingon, the Klingons are indeed superior to a male human at either extreme of the age groups.

I think they will probably do about the same. Although they have awful weapons to fight the Uruk-hai, they are all supposedly in their prime, and thus are in are physically superior to many of Rohans combatants at helms Deep.

[Shadow WarChief]

The klingons open the gate and charge through towards "glorious" victory...only to get skewered by a pike wall, crossbowmen, and 500 Uruks coming in from behind because they didn't defend the deeping wall.

Klingons do worse.

[Howedar]

Individually Klingons are pretty stupid, but their leadership at higher levels is not that bad (assuming that these Klingons are a cohesive unit, not a mass of men). Klingon leadership likes sneak attacks and cloaking devices, for example.

[Howedar]

Oh, and the anticipation of explosives would allow the Klingons to tell the archers to fire on anyone that is carrying big things down into the tunnel, which might have given them time enough to hold off the explosive attack for a time. They couldn't do the firing directly, but they could warn the archers.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Kira and Dax are super human because they get paid more by Berman to beat up extras.
The bat'tleth is a nice weapon and against those pointed flat swords that the uruk hai wield would probably stand up very well. I try my best not to think of bat'tleths as swords but pike blades, or wide battle axes. Remember these are all well trained klingon warriors and despite the way klingons are portraited in ST they are probably more stategically smarter than your average Uruk Hai, as any good war historian knows individual valor and ability, while still alive and well in modern literature, died with the knights of the 2nd crusade as they fought against a far smarter enemy trying to score points with Mr. G. No, a klingon, after thousands of tumultuous years, would have the knowledge gained fighting numerous enemies in their conquests of nearby star systems.
The strategy of the the orcs was one of complete, scorched earth destruction. But the Klingons, noting the obvious weak point in the wall would have stacked boulders right over that area forming a special inner wall around it.(I would have done that myself, assuming of course that the klingon's expect that the drain hole would be observed)
The klingons would have probably been able to hold off the assualt pretty well considering the numbers. And the battle would have started later as a human was the first to fire an arrow.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Actually the would have probably told the archers to use burning arrows and take out a bunch of orcs, or even spot the original bomb wagon and destroy that first. Haha no more boom

[Darth Wong]

Why would you assume that Klingons should be tactically clever when we've seen them in action and we've observed that they are not tactically clever?

Observation trumps speculation any day of the week.

[Connor MacLeod]

Even scarier:

10,000 Klingons with Bat'Leths charging 10,000 orcs

[Darth Wong]

Even scarier:

10,000 Klingons with Bat'Leths charging 10,000 orcs

20,000 morons in one place. Maybe the Ents can open up a dam and flood them all, so we get 20,000 Morons under the Sea.

[Sea Skimmer]

One set of savage idiots has ranged weapons and armor. Victory to the Orcs.

[Morning Star]

Even scarier:

10,000 Klingons with Bat'Leths charging 10,000 orcs

20,000 morons in one place. Maybe the Ents can open up a dam and flood them all, so we get 20,000 Morons under the Sea.

I know, how can you take a race seriously that says words like Petaq! or something...just can't happen.

Plus orcs are cool, so shut up.

[white_rabbit]

Kira and Dax are super human because they get paid more by Berman to beat up extras.
The bat'tleth is a nice weapon and against those pointed flat swords that the uruk hai wield would probably stand up very well. I try my best not to think of bat'tleths as swords but pike blades, or wide battle axes. Remember these are all well trained klingon warriors and despite the way klingons are portraited in ST they are probably more stategically smarter than your average Uruk Hai, as any good war historian knows individual valor and ability, while still alive and well in modern literature, died with the knights of the 2nd crusade as they fought against a far smarter enemy trying to score points with Mr. G. No, a klingon, after thousands of tumultuous years, would have the knowledge gained fighting numerous enemies in their conquests of nearby star systems.
The strategy of the the orcs was one of complete, scorched earth destruction. But the Klingons, noting the obvious weak point in the wall would have stacked boulders right over that area forming a special inner wall around it.(I would have done that myself, assuming of course that the klingon's expect that the drain hole would be observed)
The klingons would have probably been able to hold off the assualt pretty well considering the numbers. And the battle would have started later as a human was the first to fire an arrow.

Thats...very interesting...

But I have to ask.....when was the last time you saw a klingon thinking in battle ?

[NecronLord]

Kira and Dax are super human because they get paid more by Berman to beat up extras.
The bat'tleth is a nice weapon and against those pointed flat swords that the uruk hai wield would probably stand up very well. I try my best not to think of bat'tleths as swords but pike blades, or wide battle axes. Remember these are all well trained klingon warriors and despite the way klingons are portraited in ST they are probably more stategically smarter than your average Uruk Hai, as any good war historian knows individual valor and ability, while still alive and well in modern literature, died with the knights of the 2nd crusade as they fought against a far smarter enemy trying to score points with Mr. G. No, a klingon, after thousands of tumultuous years, would have the knowledge gained fighting numerous enemies in their conquests of nearby star systems.
The strategy of the the orcs was one of complete, scorched earth destruction. But the Klingons, noting the obvious weak point in the wall would have stacked boulders right over that area forming a special inner wall around it.(I would have done that myself, assuming of course that the klingon's expect that the drain hole would be observed)
The klingons would have probably been able to hold off the assualt pretty well considering the numbers. And the battle would have started later as a human was the first to fire an arrow.

Thats...very interesting...

But I have to ask.....when was the last time you saw a klingon thinking in battle ?

TOS?

[Stormbringer]

TOS?

The Klingon's in the scenario are clearer tha dumbed down TNG version that make the Uruks look like geniuses.

[NecronLord]

TOS?

The Klingon's in the scenario are clearer tha dumbed down TNG version that make the Uruks look like geniuses.

I know. I meant that was the last time I saw them do any thinking in battle. Can you imagine a TOS Klingon Using a Batleth?

[Connor MacLeod]

Even scarier:

10,000 Klingons with Bat'Leths charging 10,000 orcs

20,000 morons in one place. Maybe the Ents can open up a dam and flood them all, so we get 20,000 Morons under the Sea.

Ahh.. you know it would be a glorious battle....

Personally I'd find it interesting to watch.

[Master of Ossus]

Kira and Dax are super human because they get paid more by Berman to beat up extras.
The bat'tleth is a nice weapon and against those pointed flat swords that the uruk hai wield would probably stand up very well. I try my best not to think of bat'tleths as swords but pike blades, or wide battle axes. Remember these are all well trained klingon warriors and despite the way klingons are portraited in ST they are probably more stategically smarter than your average Uruk Hai, as any good war historian knows individual valor and ability, while still alive and well in modern literature, died with the knights of the 2nd crusade as they fought against a far smarter enemy trying to score points with Mr. G. No, a klingon, after thousands of tumultuous years, would have the knowledge gained fighting numerous enemies in their conquests of nearby star systems.
The strategy of the the orcs was one of complete, scorched earth destruction. But the Klingons, noting the obvious weak point in the wall would have stacked boulders right over that area forming a special inner wall around it.(I would have done that myself, assuming of course that the klingon's expect that the drain hole would be observed)
The klingons would have probably been able to hold off the assualt pretty well considering the numbers. And the battle would have started later as a human was the first to fire an arrow.

I see. In "Marauders" we saw how effective the Klingons actually were. They were totally routed by an inferior force trained for combat in less than one week by a crew that didn't know a damn thing about combat. T'Pol showed them one maneuver to evade an utterly predictable enemy, that would have been ineffective if the Klingon had been intelligent. The force that defeated the Klingons included young children (teens, actually), and antiquated weapons, yet the Klingon's performed abominably poorly. We see similar incidents in DS9, and have no reason to suspect that Klingons are more effective soldiers. The Klingons are facing a superior force with inferior weapons. They lose.

[Next of Kin]

The bat'tleth is a nice weapon and against those pointed flat swords that the uruk hai wield would probably stand up very well. I try my best not to think of bat'tleths as swords but pike blades, or wide battle axes.

The bat'tleth is a joke of a weapon. You can't generate any force swinging it from side to side. At most you accomplish some minor cuts. To even think of doing some damage you'd have to use the overhead slam which leaves the weak spots of the body vulnerable for attack. At least a battle axe has the ability to chop or hack a limb off. Heck, the Klingons should use wooden broom handles in the battle. At least they could bludgeon the orcs to death.

[starfury]

20,000 morons in one place. Maybe the Ents can open up a dam and flood them all, so we get 20,000 Morons under the Sea.

Orcs chop the klingons into dog food, the movie orcs had those blades that looked like machetes

[Sabastian Tombs]

What if you reverse it? Replace the 10k Orcs with 10k Klingons, the Klingons have bat'telhs and knives.

Will the original 300 defenders needed help, or can they pretty much handle it on thier own?