kosh vs vader

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-12-31 08:24pm

and why

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-31 08:27pm

Before someone says force-choke, no Kosh does not breathe.

Despite everything Vader has shown to be capable of, I think I'll have to go with Kosh, simply because Vorlons seem to have more capability for psionics than Jedi/Sith (excluding stuff like force storms and smashing stars together).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-31 08:27pm

Is Kosh inside the suit? Because then it is a draw. Vader can block the energy discharges, but we don't know if he can get through the shield. All they could do is throw each other around, which isn't going to do much to either of them.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-31 08:32pm

Ender wrote:Is Kosh inside the suit? Because then it is a draw. Vader can block the energy discharges, but we don't know if he can get through the shield. All they could do is throw each other around, which isn't going to do much to either of them.

There was that one B5 episode where Sheridan pissed Kosh off and Kosh made a bloody mark appear on Sheridan's face. Perhaps Kosh can do a larger version of that?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-31 08:39pm

Shinova wrote:
Ender wrote:Is Kosh inside the suit? Because then it is a draw. Vader can block the energy discharges, but we don't know if he can get through the shield. All they could do is throw each other around, which isn't going to do much to either of them.
There was that one B5 episode where Sheridan pissed Kosh off and Kosh made a bloody mark appear on Sheridan's face. Perhaps Kosh can do a larger version of that?

OK, so a Vorlon has telekinesis. So does a Sith Lord. Your point? When have we ever seen a Vorlon lift multi-ton objects via telekinesis? Giving Sheridan a bitch-slap hardly qualifies as proof of Vader-killing ability.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-31 08:48pm

Vader would be more than capable of handling him given that a group of B5 security was more than enough to handle a Vorlon.

That episode alone said a little bit much of their fraility persay

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-01-01 12:49am

Ghost Rider wrote:Vader would be more than capable of handling him given that a group of B5 security was more than enough to handle a Vorlon.

That episode alone said a little bit much of their fraility persay

This is all wrong. B5 security did not handle the vorlon. It took Lyta, Lorien, and the remains of Kosh to get him off the station.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-01 01:51am

Thank you...but as to one point does it have a relative physical form?

Or do Shadows and Vorlons have to somehow energy fight persay(I know how ridiculous it sounds...but then again sometimes JMS makes me wonder what the hell he smokes...and no I'm not meaning just B5)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-01-01 02:06am

I would vote for Kosh. Maybe just because he makes reading in the dark so much easier

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-01 02:44am

I'm voting for Kosh, because he seems to have much stronger telepathic (not necessarily telekinetic) powers than Vader, and in all honesty I don't know what Vader could try to do to Kosh other than mind-fuck him.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-01 03:31am

Howedar wrote:I'm voting for Kosh, because he seems to have much stronger telepathic (not necessarily telekinetic) powers than Vader, and in all honesty I don't know what Vader could try to do to Kosh other than mind-fuck him.

And what could Kosh do to Vader? This is a guy who went through a war to the death with the Shadows and didn't even breach the walls of his quarters on B5. How powerful could he be?

Let's not worship the "Casper the Ghost" version of him; the most he ever did was knock some crewmen around. Big deal; he didn't even damage the walls of the station when he flew out. He was obviously dying already; the ghost version is bereft of his physical portion, and if his physical portion dies, then he dies (why do you think the first Kosh had to take refuge in Sheridan, and nearly died from being poisoned in the series pilot?).

So if you hit him with a blast of electricity, you kill him. Some spirit-part of him will linger on for a while and maybe cause some trouble, but given enough time, it should die too.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-01 10:48am

Darth Wong wrote: And what could Kosh do to Vader? This is a guy who went through a war to the death with the Shadows and didn't even breach the walls of his quarters on B5. How powerful could he be?

Let's not worship the "Casper the Ghost" version of him; the most he ever did was knock some crewmen around. Big deal; he didn't even damage the walls of the station when he flew out. He was obviously dying already; the ghost version is bereft of his physical portion, and if his physical portion dies, then he dies (why do you think the first Kosh had to take refuge in Sheridan, and nearly died from being poisoned in the series pilot?).

So if you hit him with a blast of electricity, you kill him. Some spirit-part of him will linger on for a while and maybe cause some trouble, but given enough time, it should die too.

In the case of when Kosh "died" according to one of the later books he supposedly let himself be killed to somewhat restore the balance between his race and the Shadows after the Vorlon forces had attacked and destroyed a bunch of Shadow vessels.

Anyway, from the show we haven't seen the Vorlons dish it out much but Kosh Vader (Kosh 2) did take a fair amount of persuading before getting ripped off the station by the combination bits of Kosh 1 and Lorien. Still, I think that an energy being isn't going to fair too well having a light saber jabbed through him.

Vorlon telepathy may be a problem but it may not. We've never seen anyone try to screw with either Vader's or Anakin's head. So I'm thinking Vader wins against a Vorlon. If the DH comics are anything to go by it doen't look to healthy to be rumaging around in the mind of a Sith Lord.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-01-01 12:35pm

Tsyroc wrote:If the DH comics are anything to go by it doen't look to healthy to be rumaging around in the mind of a Sith Lord.

"My species is telepathic, you know. I can see into your mind and find out who sent you!"

I really liked that scene in the Maul comic.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2003-01-01 03:13pm

Power needed to be taken away from B5's fusion reactor's just to breach Kosh's suit.

Just one question: Does anyone know how many of the station's fusion reactors had to be used to breach the suit? It could be all of them or merely one 1/1000th of one of them. It's been a while since I've seen that episode so I don't remember.

Oh yeah, one last thing. JMS has said that the Vorlons aren't totally energy beings. They do have physical body parts.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-01 04:06pm

Darth Wong wrote: And what could Kosh do to Vader? This is a guy who went through a war to the death with the Shadows and didn't even breach the walls of his quarters on B5. How powerful could he be?

I dunno. One would think he could wear Vader down eventually.

Let's not worship the "Casper the Ghost" version of him; the most he ever did was knock some crewmen around. Big deal; he didn't even damage the walls of the station when he flew out. He was obviously dying already; the ghost version is bereft of his physical portion, and if his physical portion dies, then he dies (why do you think the first Kosh had to take refuge in Sheridan, and nearly died from being poisoned in the series pilot?).

I dunno, cut me some slack I haven't seen B5 in 5 or 6 years. I thought that the Vorlons hung out in the suits more for convenience that anything else. If the nonphysical portion will eventually die anyway, why was the crew of B5 so worried about getting the energy part of the evil Kosh off of the station?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-01 08:52pm

Eleas wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:If the DH comics are anything to go by it doen't look to healthy to be rumaging around in the mind of a Sith Lord.
"My species is telepathic, you know. I can see into your mind and find out who sent you!"

I really liked that scene in the Maul comic.

That comic was pretty cool. Much more fun than the Darth Maul novel.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-01-02 03:00am

I go Vader, a lightsabre can't be a good thing to be stuck into you, no matter who you are!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-02 03:13am

Shadow WarChief wrote:Power needed to be taken away from B5's fusion reactor's just to breach Kosh's suit.

Power needs to be taken away from B5's fusion reactor to turn on the lights in Sheridan's quarters, too. It's a matter of quantity. Since people could look at the arc without being blinded, the amount of power was obviously not that high.

Just one question: Does anyone know how many of the station's fusion reactors had to be used to breach the suit? It could be all of them or merely one 1/1000th of one of them. It's been a while since I've seen that episode so I don't remember.

The amount of energy is severely limited by naked-eye viewability, and you can't escape that fact. The behaviour of electrical arcs in atmosphere is no mystery; have you ever seen an arc welder?

Oh yeah, one last thing. JMS has said that the Vorlons aren't totally energy beings. They do have physical body parts.

Of course, since they can be poisoned. This also means they can be hurt, although the ability to generate a great field of glowing nonsense may make a lot of people miss their shots. Still, it would be inadvisable for Casper to go anywhere near Vader, since he would undoubtedly know where to stick that saber.