Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[Shrykull]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Sorry, if I posted this in the wrong place, the other forums like sci-fi don't allow vs arguments, but what do you think of this scenario. I'd say pretty much the Empire would win, although in Andromeda slipstream can get you farther faster, it's unrealiable and I think it would be real hard if not impossible to intercept a ship en route. Both of them have planet destroying weaponry, Andromeda has something Tyr mentioned called a "Maxim charge" which can destroy planets, but all Star Wars has to destroy stars are either powerful and rare Jedi like Naga Sadow and the sun crusher which was destroyed, but in Andromeda nova bombs are commonplace and every high guard ship carries 40 of them, as far as weapons star wars wins with turbolasers and the death star, too bad the Commonwealth never had the point sigularity projector which can fire black holes, what if they fired a mini black hole at the death star, they wouldn't be able to stop it, when it hit the shields it would absorb the energy keep going and if they fire anything at it it will make the black hole bigger.

[Bryan]

At what time frame does the battle take place at?

And do we assume both government have to deal with the same domestic problems? It'd be interesting since the Empire really only used the DSI twice before it was blown to dust and the DSII a couple time if you count it destroying ships before it was blown to pieces. So I'm just wondering where the Empire suddenly got another DS to use?

Assuming straight up engagements Andromeda has ranges in light seconds for its weapons, I think its missiles have a considerably further range. I can't recall the exact range but allsystems.org probably lists them.

Fleet to fleet battles IMO would be an unknown, though I am biased towards Andromeda (being the cofounder of the Andromeda club at SB ), becuase we have no solid numbers for the System Commonwealth. Even if they have inferior firepower for weapons numbers could bring the GE down. But then again we have no precise numbers on either so it is speculation.

As for who would win, well, MAD. If you get a crazy Commonwealth captain with novabombs and the ability to produce them you could say bye bye to the SW Core and most of their planets. Of course BDZ would be the response and visa versa.

It's MAD in the end.

[Mr Bean]

Lol MAD in space
Who'd thunk it?

Acutal I think it would degrade into carrier combat of all things

Commonweath launches missles

Tie's scramble to shot down missles(Aka Bombers)
(They are fast but kinda large targets yes/no?)
Imps Send TIE Bombers to shot down thier ships as they have no shields making things a + towards the Empire

I don't know it would not be the normal slaugherhose for the Imps VS anything

I'm sorry I don't know as much Commonweath as I should (I slept through an esposde or two)
But one thing you gotta admit
NO EXPOLDING WARP CORES!
Tick in their favor right there!

[T-1000]

The commonwealth wins.

They have their ships drop into various Imperial systems and fire nova bombs. While the Empire has only the Sun Crusher, the CommonWealth can eqquip all of their ships with these weapons if necessary.

[Dead on Arrival]

They have their ships drop into various Imperial systems and fire nova bombs. While the Empire has only the Sun Crusher, the CommonWealth can eqquip all of their ships with these weapons if necessary.

Miraculously the CW knows where all several million of the inhabited systems of the Galactic Empire are, and rather than attempt to face them in combat will cowardly destroy all the stars as a first strike...sounds about right to me! /sarcasm

[FireNexus]

When trying to win a war, if you worry about something as ridiculous as honor, you're an idiot.

Though I know little about Andromeda, if these nova bombs destroy stars, then one would only have to drop into major imperial systems, which aren't that hard to find.

Coruscant, anywhere imperial ships are produced, the planet(I can't recall the name) where the imperial academy is located, And any other systems where the imperials have very important resources.

These aren't difficult locations to find out. Ask any person in the USA, for example, where the important cities in the US are. Usually, you'll get an answer that is fairly accurate.

Then just buy a map, and use it to direct your ships.

Of course, you'd have to deploy all the attack forces in tandem, or the imperials would become wise to your tactics after one or two attacks, at most.

But, it would still be an effective way to badly injure your enemy while suffering minimal losses.

This is, of course, assuming that the "Commonwealth" has fast enough engines to make this a plausible course of action...

[Guest]

Well the SCW has alot more planets and star systems to spare then the Empire...

In a purely conventional war....both sides have their advantages, but I think it would be a bitch for the Imps since they are almost always going to be the first ones getting hit in almost every single engagment, unless they jump the CW ships.

It really would be interesting to see, cause if a CW ship gets to close, and cant Jiggle bird like the Andromeda...its pretty much screwed, an ISD will have it for breakfast....but the CW ships can pick off the fighters from an ISD pretty easily(( you try out running something going damn near the speed of light)).

[Dead on Arrival]

Well the SCW has alot more planets and star systems to spare then the Empire...

Nope, Galactic Empire while only confined to one galaxy is in fact made up of much, much more inhabited systems than the sparsely populated three galaxies the Commonwealth hails from.

In a purely conventional war....both sides have their advantages, but I think it would be a bitch for the Imps since they are almost always going to be the first ones getting hit in almost every single engagment, unless they jump the CW ships.

Advantage only lasts until the Galactic Empire captures a ship with a functional Slipstream drive. Fear the Ion Cannons...

It really would be interesting to see, cause if a CW ship gets to close, and cant Jiggle bird like the Andromeda...its pretty much screwed, an ISD will have it for breakfast....but the CW ships can pick off the fighters from an ISD pretty easily(( you try out running something going damn near the speed of light)).

The Imperial ships will be able to track the CW ships at well beyond any CW ship's effective sensor range in realtime, and can ambush using a quick jump into and out of Hyperspace. A missle barrage from a CW ship might be capable of causing localized shield breaches when fired enmasse, but that is the only real weapon they have to worry about. Also, SW ships are capable of speeds matching any CW ships...fighters can possibly match kinetic missiles.

[Mr Bean]

Ooops we have a pro-warsy or prehaps former treky comminting Trecky acts of stuipidty!
This is a sad day for all us pro-warsys everwhere

Advantage only lasts until the Galactic Empire captures a ship with a functional Slipstream drive. Fear the Ion Cannons...

Where have we heard this one before?
(Cough hypdrive)

The Imperial ships will be able to track the CW ships at well beyond any CW ship's effective sensor range in realtime, and can ambush using a quick jump into and out of Hyperspace. A missle barrage from a CW ship might be capable of causing localized shield breaches when fired enmasse, but that is the only real weapon they have to worry about. Also, SW ships are capable of speeds matching any CW ships...fighters can possibly match kinetic missiles.

The Kinetic missises travel at rates approaching C the reason why we are kinda up in the air if the TIE's could shot them down, Also how effect would they be VS Shields?

Like its been said no shields means CW shields are toast if they get within gun range of a Imp Duece

The battle realy depends on how fast the Fighters of CW are and how fast and powerful the missiles are

[T-1000]

They have their ships drop into various Imperial systems and fire nova bombs. While the Empire has only the Sun Crusher, the CommonWealth can eqquip all of their ships with these weapons if necessary.

Miraculously the CW knows where all several million of the inhabited systems of the Galactic Empire are, and rather than attempt to face them in combat will cowardly destroy all the stars as a first strike...sounds about right to me! /sarcasm

It's called fighting smart. You cripple your enemies entire infrastructure without waisting time, eqquipment and lives fighting the enemies millitary. What the hell do you the Tactics section of Wong's website is all about?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Ship vs Ship is hard. Now Imperial ships have the firepower advantage, CW ships range. However CW have no FTL sensors! A Star Destroyer can be several light hours away, do a micro-jump and attack. Even assuming their HTLs are only equal to an Aclamators, one blast will be x10 that of a XMC missle barrage. A broadside from a ISD would kill a XMC or pretty much any ship.


Planet Numbers


The CW may have 3 galaxies, but they are lacking in worlds. I think it was less then 2 million. The Empire has 12. And IIRC the CW worlds are quite less populated.


Ship numbers.


Empire takes this easily. The CW only had 300 000 ships. IIRC the Nechies with 20 000 collapsed it. The Empire has millions and can build a lot in short order.


FTL.

CW takes it. However isn't SlipStream harder in less traveled routes? That could be a problem.


Superweapons:

I doubt the CW will be massacring billions and trillions of civilians. The Empire would without a thought, however they can't. The Emperor won't send the DS into a new galaxy, he propably thinks the commander may decide to set up a new Empire. And he won't go by himself, else he may find the SW galaxy in some greedy Adniral or Grand Moff's hands.

[Dead on Arrival]

Ooops we have a pro-warsy or prehaps former treky comminting Trecky acts of stuipidty! This is a sad day for all us pro-warsys everwhere

Read my signature. My affiliation is obvious...

Where have we heard this one before?
(Cough hypdrive)

The Empire has a significantly larger techbase than the Federation does, and when they capture a ship...something as small as a slip fighter will do...they can devote entire worlds to deciphering this new technology. The Commonwealth very well might capture a ship with Hyperdrive, though given how slow it is compared to Slipstream (with a good pilot) they might not even bother with it.

The Kinetic missises travel at rates approaching C the reason why we are kinda up in the air if the TIE's could shot them down, Also how effect would they be VS Shields?

They might travel at C, but if they are launched at the normal ranges the gunners will have several seconds to do something about them. A flak-burst anywhere near them will vaporize them given their stated 1kg mass, and most SW ships can literaly create a wall of plasma around themselves to as defensive fire. We also know from the ICS the shields on an Acclamator troop Transport are rated at 7e22 W, so it would take quite a few missiles to cause total shield failure on a SW ship.

Like its been said no shields means CW shields are toast if they get within gun range of a Imp Duece

A single hit from a 200 GT turbo-laser will gut any CW ship, but hitting them is going to be difficult if they stay at several LS-range and only use their missiles.

The battle realy depends on how fast the Fighters of CW are and how fast and powerful the missiles are

Kinetic missiles are 1 kg in mass, impact at .9c, create a giant plume of EM radiation and accelerated particles behind them, and have a kinetic energy of ~20 MT upon impact. A GHC has 8 launch tubes, so can hit the 22 TT shields of an acclamator with 160 MT/sec. I know other ships have more launch tubes, 40 being the high number I recall...

[Dead on Arrival]

It's called fighting smart. You cripple your enemies entire infrastructure without waisting time, eqquipment and lives fighting the enemies millitary. What the hell do you the Tactics section of Wong's website is all about?

You still haven't explained how the CW knows where every inhabited system is, or why the CW will commit mass genocide on a galactic scale rather than facing the 'supposedly inferior' SW forces in combat. If the CW actually fought as you suggested, why were fleet engagements such a big deal during the civil war that destroyed the original commonwealth?

[Mr Bean]

Fine fine
TRECKY

But the point is made is just because you have a working system does NOT mean your gonna be able to figure everything out very quickly and have working slipstream ready to go and ready to retrofit on your exisiting ships

NTM the point is made you may not be able to do it awhile, Sure you can so called put a whole planet on it but then agian
If we took a modern day Engineer and handed him plans for a SW Hypdrive think he could build a working model?
99% chance he can't
Clone him a billion times
How about now?
Nope still kinda unlikely
The thing is if you capurute a ship with slipstream you have to run tests
And you only got one ship
Why not make more?
Your trying to learn how to make ships like that, if you could just make more to study
Why would you need to study?

What are you going to do put the ship on a big pedstile and lock a billion people in the room, give them 24 hours and say Figure it out?

Your limited by raw RL applyes to anything Sci that has gravity factors here I'm afriad

[Shrykull]

ISD shields may be too strong for the CW to penetrate, well, anyway the commonwealth doesn't need thier big ships to nova bomb a star, slip fighters can do it, as in that episode where a bunch of commonwealth fanatic kids (teenagers) nova bombed a magog system. Hyperdrive however is incapable of intergalactic transportation, except for the outbound project, if they can build ships like that again that is. The empire would need to capture a slipstream vessel to travel to different galaxies, but the commonwealth already have it, and like I said slipstream may be fast, but it's unreliable except to a skilled pilot, travel between Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy and Tarn Vedra in the Andromeda galaxy took only a few minutes in commonwealth times. Andromeda has the maxim charge (I suspect that is a weapon that's like a bomb that must be brought to the planet and denonated (like that bomb they used in soldier to destroy that junkyard planet). However the galactic empire has the death star that they can fire at planets from afar, and if you want to include it, the galaxy gun

[Crossover_Maniac]

With slipstream technology, the Commonwealth can keep their industrial complex in one galaxy and strike from another. The worse that can happen to them is the Empire isn't destroyed.

[omegaLancer]

One of the issue is how the CW and Empire meets, First what is the distant from the nearest common wealth world to the empire...

From AOTC we know that republic had reach several of the obriting polar galaxies, also that the transit time of hyperspace is depend on several conditions..

There are natural routes in hyperspace that allow faster than normal travel, what if the empire find such a route that allow them to reach the republic in weeks ...

We know that the republic sent an a group of jedi to another Galaxy ( sadily they never made it), but would the republic have sponsor such a journey if it took several life times to complete, so maybe such a route was discovered and the Emperor suppress the knowledge of such a route...

Next the minute a nova bomb is used I believe the kids glove would come off, I doubt the CW could survive if the empire started BDZ their planet in revenge...

Another issue is the fact that Empire has better sensor and EW technology than the CW... The KE missile that CW uses are depend on guidance information from either the mother ship or drone... With intense jamming they would go dumb....meaning CW ship either need to get closer to burn thru the jamming or attempt to launch attacks via fighters...

[Crossover_Maniac]

One of the issue is how the CW and Empire meets, First what is the distant from the nearest common wealth world to the empire...

From AOTC we know that republic had reach several of the obriting polar galaxies, also that the transit time of hyperspace is depend on several conditions..

There are natural routes in hyperspace that allow faster than normal travel, what if the empire find such a route that allow them to reach the republic in weeks ...

We know that the republic sent an a group of jedi to another Galaxy ( sadily they never made it), but would the republic have sponsor such a journey if it took several life times to complete, so maybe such a route was discovered and the Emperor suppress the knowledge of such a route...

In one episode of Andromeda, the Andromeda Ascendant traveled to a galaxy 66 million light-years from the Milky Way. The Andromeda lost its crew to a Magog attack and wondered around the universe blindly using its slipstream until it managed to find its way to the Milky Way galaxy in a matter of months. Slipstream is practically folding space like a wormhole if not for the inherit uncertainity in using slipstream. If the Andromeda Ascendant can travel across 66 million light-years in a matter of months wandering blind through space without a pilot(I can only imagined it may have once or twice went the opposite direction), you can imagine the long range strike capability the Commonwealth has at its disposal. This is quite the contrary for the Star Wars universe where there is virtual no interstellar travel say the Jedi mission and the two neighboring satellite galaxies which have never been visited in the movies or the extended universe. The distance between the Milky Way and the SW galaxy is unknown, but since the ships from the Commonwealth has visited the Andromeda Galaxy and there are no satellite galaxies near the Andromeda Galaxy, the SW galaxy cannot be closer than 2 million light-years.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Commonweath launches missles Tie's scramble to shot down missles(Aka Bombers)
(They are fast but kinda large targets yes/no?)

No. They are fist sized and move at 90 PSL.

Ship vs Ship is hard.
Empire takes this easily. The CW only had 300 000 ships. IIRC the Nechies with 20 000 collapsed it. The Empire has millions and can build a lot in short order.

The High Guard only had 300,000 capital ships. This fails to even consider the Home Guard forces.

I doubt the CW will be massacring billions and trillions of civilians.

If the Nietzscheans have their way then the Empire is nova bomb bait. Even assuming they don't get their way the Commonwealth would break out strategic weapons if the Empire did.

A single hit from a 200 GT turbo-laser will gut any CW ship, but hitting them is going to be difficult if they stay at several LS-range and only use their missiles.

Prove that a 200 GT hit will kill a GHC. In Under the Night the Andromeda came under simultaneous attack by 500 Nietzschean vessels for several second before her defenses were turned on. Even assuming that Nietzschean capital ships are as lightly armed as a High Endurance Research Cruiser they would still have 8 ELS tubes. That would mean she was soaking up over 700 GT of damage a second for at least 3 or 4 seconds before her PDLs and defensive batteries were brought online. This is of course assuming that Nietzscheans destroyers are as lightly armed as lightweight survey ship, which from all indications they are not.

A GHC has 8 launch tubes, so can hit the 22 TT shields of an acclamator with 160 MT/sec. I know other ships have more launch tubes, 40 being the high number I recall...

A To Seek To Find class High Endurance Research Cruiser has 8 missiles tubes. A Glorious Heritage heavy Cruiser mounts 40 ELS tubes and you are totally disregarding AP cannons which have been stated to be more powerful than the offensive missiles.

[T-1000]

You still haven't explained how the CW knows where every inhabited system is, or why the CW will commit mass genocide on a galactic scale rather than facing the 'supposedly inferior' SW forces in combat. If the CW actually fought as you suggested, why were fleet engagements such a big deal during the civil war that destroyed the original commonwealth?[/quote]

1. It's called "scouting".

2. The commonwealth was probably not renowned for using Nova Bombs for the same reason that the United States does not nuke every enemy they have. The use of such weapons usually forces your opponent to retaliate with weapons of equal destructive force. In this case, if both sides are using planet busting weapons at every engagement, there isn't going to be much of a galaxy left.

However, sine the Empire cannot arm everyone of its vessels with planet destroying weapons, and the Common Wealth can, the Common Wealth can simply drop into a system, fire a nova bomb, jump out of the system, and proceed to the next. The Empire could be facing extinction before the day is over!

[Captain Kruger]

"The distance between the Milky Way and the SW galaxy is unknown, but since the ships from the Commonwealth has visited the Andromeda Galaxy and there are no satellite galaxies near the Andromeda Galaxy, the SW galaxy cannot be closer than 2 million light-years."

Actually, the Andromeda galaxy has two satellite galaxies, M32 and M110. But they’re obviously not candidates for the SW galaxy as they’re a bit too puny.

Also, after the 66 million light year trip, Rommie stumbled back to Triangulum (the third galaxy in our cluster), not the Milky Way.

[Dead on Arrival]

Prove that a 200 GT hit will kill a GHC.

If the armor fails to stop the energy from singular kinetic missiles, which impact at less than .9c (so less than the calculated ~20 MT) due to the AG field, what chance does it have of stopping a 200 GT pulse of energy?

In Under the Night the Andromeda came under simultaneous attack by 500 Nietzschean vessels for several second before her defenses were turned on.

First, we actually see thousands of missiles hit the Andromeda? Second, does defenses include ECM? Third, do you know for a fact that every ship fired and that they fired off every possible weapon they could? Fourth, do we even know the armament of said ships? Fifth, are you assuming every single missile hit?

Even assuming that Nietzschean capital ships are as lightly armed as a High Endurance Research Cruiser they would still have 8 ELS tubes. That would mean she was soaking up over 700 GT of damage a second for at least 3 or 4 seconds before her PDLs and defensive batteries were brought online.

Actually, according to the tech advisors the hull doesn't actually stop the missiles instead the missiles (now in a plasma-state) plow straight through and out the other side of the ship. The amount of energy 'soaked' up by the ship would be a minute fraction of the impacting kinetic energy per missile, modified by the AG fields...which I would assume are always active.

This is of course assuming that Nietzscheans destroyers are as lightly armed as lightweight survey ship, which from all indications they are not.

You are also assuming the yield of their missiles are the same as the CW, which is not necessarily true. Given a single CW could survive combat with 500 ships, I would think the answer to that question is obvious...

A To Seek To Find class High Endurance Research Cruiser has 8 missiles tubes. A Glorious Heritage heavy Cruiser mounts 40 ELS tubes and you are totally disregarding AP cannons which have been stated to be more powerful than the offensive missiles.

I apologize about getting the number of tubes wrong, but that still means only 800 MT/sec from the missiles plus whatever the kinetic energy of the AP cannon projectiles to penetrate the shields. Do you have any solid numbers on the AP cannon, or should we just try to debate with 'well, they are more powerful than the missiles'? Query, is that a statement of per missile or per volley? Do you even know?

[Dead on Arrival]

1. It's called "scouting".

Which given the limits of their sensor technology will take them days to adequately search a single system with one ship, such is the limitations of being limited to c-based sensor systems. During which time, they will be detected by someone, and when they vanish using a non-Hyperspace mode of FTL they will be reported. Patrols will be alerted, and these scouts will be tracked so that there intentions can be ascertained. If they simply scout without announcing themselves, they will be presumed hostile and the Empire will react accordingly.

Incidentally, the speed of Slipstream is determined by the skill of the pilot and the quality of the 'path' from the system you are in to the one you wish to go. There are no such 'paths' in the SW galaxy, and all Slipstream travel will be signifantly slower than normal...with speeds comparable to SW Hyperdrive. Scouting out the SW galaxy fully will take months/years, and that is being overly-generous to the CW scouts.

2. The commonwealth was probably not renowned for using Nova Bombs for the same reason that the United States does not nuke every enemy they have. The use of such weapons usually forces your opponent to retaliate with weapons of equal destructive force. In this case, if both sides are using planet busting weapons at every engagement, there isn't going to be much of a galaxy left.

Considering the Empire can't actually engage any CW held system (until they acquire and reverse-engineer a Slipstream drive), unless there is some type of wormhole that connects the SW galaxy with the region of the universe in which Andromeda takes place they will not be blowing up any planets.

However, sine the Empire cannot arm everyone of its vessels with planet destroying weapons, and the Common Wealth can, the Common Wealth can simply drop into a system, fire a nova bomb, jump out of the system, and proceed to the next.

While they technically could equip every ship with Nova Bombs, they may not have the necessary resources to build that many in the first place. I am aware that they require an extremely rare material, which might mean they cannot make the necessary millions of Nova Bombs to destroy every system controlled by the Empire.

The Empire could be facing extinction before the day is over!

Why weren't the Nietchzean home systems destroyed by Nova Bombs if the CW will so willingly commit genocide on a galactic scale? I have a hard time believing they will kill trillion upon trillion of sentient beings, instead of attempting to conquer the Empire and usurping control of those worlds.

[Dead on Arrival]

Fine fine
TRECKY

How about I call you a moron since you can't fucking read? Moron...

But the point is made is just because you have a working system does NOT mean your gonna be able to figure everything out very quickly and have working slipstream ready to go and ready to retrofit on your exisiting ships

Who said anything about figuring it out quickly? You scan the captured unit into a powerful computer, breaking it down into a holographic database with detailed analysis of the materials, systems, and a complete schematic accurate down to the sub-atomic level. You then lock the captured unit away in a secure place, the Emperor's stronghold at Byss being the most likely candidate. You then build an exact copy of the unit, and then install it on a testbed ship to run tests on the system. You don't actually have to know why it works to build one, as long as you have the technological base to get an exact enough schematic of the thing you are building. The fact the Empire has the technology to convert energy to matter makes copying a captured piece of technology relatively simple.

During this time, teams of scientists are working on the why and the long process of reverse engineering. However, long before they crack this...if Slipstream is found to be superior (in most instances it is)...ships will be using copies of the captured unit.

For another example of this in operation, I point to the Hyperspace jump engines used in Babylon 5. The Younger Races of the galaxy have not discovered how to access Hyperspace on their own, instead discovering and copying the systems inherent to Jump Gates seeded throughout the galaxy by the Vorlons. The process of getting into Hyperspace without the use of a Jump Gate to study and manufacture took the First Ones thousands of years. Scientists in B5 couldn't tell you anything but the basic whys, but they can still access Hyperspace. Same thing as a captured Slipstream unit.

[Renewed_Valour1]

If the armor fails to stop the energy from singular kinetic missiles, which impact at less than .9c (so less than the calculated ~20 MT) due to the AG field, what chance does it have of stopping a 200 GT pulse of energy?

We've seen the hull armor is capable of stopping energy or plasma weapons that are rated at well over the 20mts of kinetic missiles. Both "Double Helix" and "Pitiless as a Sun" come to mind as examples where the hull was minimally damaged by weapons much more powerful than OM-5s. It could just mean that the armor is much more efficient at stopping energy based weapons

Second, does defenses include ECM?

Rommie said she was under active attack by 500 vessels with another 500 moving into combat range. I can even dig up the quote if you want it. You only see a few of the combat scenes during the course of the battle. I would also say that the ECM is part of the defenses she activates when she goes into combat mode along with powering up her AG fields to combat levels.

Fourth, do we even know the armament of said ships?

A Nietzschean stealth fighter their lightest armed vessel was more than a match for the High Endurance Research Cruiser Starry Wisdom. I think it's safe to assume the Nietzschean destroyers at least outgun a HRC by twice making their loadout 8 ELS tubes. More than likely their destroyers mount 20 or 30 ELS tubes if you go by the pattern of how the Restorian destroyers were armed.

Fifth, are you assuming every single missile hit?

Even if only a fraction of them hit her or a small number of those 500 ships fired she was still hit by at least 200 GT in a short amount of time.

You are also assuming the yield of their missiles are the same as the CW, which is not necessarily true. Given a single CW could survive combat with 500 ships, I would think the answer to that question is obvious...

[quote/]

Actually we know that the Nietzschean largely used Commonwealth weapons and their vessels mounted ELS tubes. The Nietzschean Stealth Fighter was a standby for the Commonwealth Home Guard fleet. It makes very little sense that Nietzschean weapons would be any lower yield or different than the OM-5 which was used in most spacecraft according to All Systems.

I apologize about getting the number of tubes wrong, but that still means only 800 MT/sec from the missiles plus whatever the kinetic energy of the AP cannon projectiles to penetrate the shields. [/quote]

22 mt per missile
1 ELS tube fires 8 missiles a second
40 ELS tubes on a GHC
7040 mt for a second salvo

60 ELS tubes for a DSA
10560 mt a second salvo

180 ELS tubes for DSX
31680 mt a second salvo.

Do you have any solid numbers on the AP cannon, or should we just try to debate with 'well, they are more powerful than the missiles'?

I think it's fair to say that 6 AP cannons are capable of firing 7 GT a second because any other number would be pure speculation. I think their more powerful but there's no real proof how much more powerful so I would say that is the low end..

The shows Tech advisor said in one of the official chats that if fired steady they can empty the AP tanks in a few seconds. Of course he also said their usual use is against fighters so they might only be firing a few grams of AP in that used and for the yield of AP he said to calculate how big of a bang a few grams of AP make going 99 PSL. Akin to arguing 200 GT TLs don't exist because they started forest fires once. However from "Belly of the Beast" Hunt stated that the AP tanks of the Maru are capable of being used as a planet busting bomb due to the amount of AP they hold. Now a Heavy Cruiser should have much larger AP tanks than the Maru and if you figure they can drain them in a few second of firing. Well you can speculate that the high end of AP cannons are rather high.