ID4 Aliens vs DS9 era Earth

AWACS · Post by **AWACS** » 2003-01-03 12:51pm

An alien mothership arrives in the Sol system and starts to move towards Earth, dispensing city ships as it goes.

What happens?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-03 01:01pm

ID4 Aliens are totally fucked when Starfleet decides to lay the smack down. The ID4 ships had not shown to have all that powerful shields and their computer systems make Windows look stable.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-03 01:12pm

The aliens are screwed. Their fighters cannot even withstand a collision with the ground that barely slows them down. Their hulls cannot withstand modern weapons fire, and their "secret weakness" is blatantly obvious to everyone, and is apparently very easy to exploit.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 01:12pm

If the Federation ever decides to really kick the shit out of the ID4 aliens they would win easily. The alien ships are piss poor and their computers a joke.

The problem might be how the Federation would react. They certianly wouldn't commit genocide like the humans of ID4 did. I see them taking out the city-killers and then trying to negotiate with the mothership.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-03 01:22pm

In all honesty, what is wrong with that? As far as we know, the Mothership itself is unarmed. Negotiating with it is not necessarily a very bad thing; besides, they'd probably blow it up eventually anyway.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 01:41pm

Howedar wrote:In all honesty, what is wrong with that? As far as we know, the Mothership itself is unarmed. Negotiating with it is not necessarily a very bad thing; besides, they'd probably blow it up eventually anyway.

Nothing. Except it's still packed with troops and as I understand it, there were more city-killers still docked. Not to mention don't know if it's armed or not. It could be.

And the Federation would absolutely not blow them up. That would kill the entire species and that would never happen, especially not to a pre warp culture.

Magashi · Post by **Magashi** » 2003-01-03 02:54pm

Master of Ossus wrote:The aliens are screwed. Their fighters cannot even withstand a collision with the ground that barely slows them down. Their hulls cannot withstand modern weapons fire, and their "secret weakness" is blatantly obvious to everyone, and is apparently very easy to exploit.

Did the Enterprise-D vs. the hard hard ground battle go much differently than the fighter vs. the cliff face? I think you are mistaken in your assumption that the ID4 aliens would be a mop-up exercise. How would Trek have dealt with a direct hit to San Francisco?

Furthermore, I know it is probably still being disputed, but how powerful are pho-torps again? The shields of the ID4 city-ship that got nuked weren't just uncaring. The ship was undammaged, and from what I could see, the aliens weren't in any kind of a hurry to leave the irradiated area.

As for their "blatently" obvious secret weakness, did you even watch the movie??? The only chance that the Earth forces had was a surprise attack from within the mothership. And that thin, thin chance only stemmed from them already having an intact fighter on their hands. I imagine the Trek response to the ID4 aliens being something akin to "Mars Attacks." 'we are sure there was just some sort of misunderstanding'

As for the Armour of the ID4 aliens not withstanding modern weapons fire. I am a little skeptical of Trek armour standing up to much more than a harpoon (ST4) when it comes to modern weapons fire.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-03 03:13pm

A single starship could wipe out the anti city ships within minutes, and a few vessels could fairly easily take down the main ship. With its sublight drive they'd notice it coming and have time to summon extra vessels.

90 pound impact fused blast frag warheads where causing secondary explosions on ID4 ships. There beyound fucked.

AWACS · Post by **AWACS** » 2003-01-03 03:17pm

Magashi wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:The aliens are screwed. Their fighters cannot even withstand a collision with the ground that barely slows them down. Their hulls cannot withstand modern weapons fire, and their "secret weakness" is blatantly obvious to everyone, and is apparently very easy to exploit.
Did the Enterprise-D vs. the hard hard ground battle go much differently than the fighter vs. the cliff face? I think you are mistaken in your assumption that the ID4 aliens would be a mop-up exercise. How would Trek have dealt with a direct hit to San Francisco?

It wouldn't, since no city destroyer would ever get to San Francisco.

Furthermore, I know it is probably still being disputed, but how powerful are pho-torps again? The shields of the ID4 city-ship that got nuked weren't just uncaring. The ship was undammaged, and from what I could see, the aliens weren't in any kind of a hurry to leave the irradiated area.

As far as I am aware, photon torpedoes have a yeild of 64 megatons, and quantum torpedoes a yield of 128 megatons. On the other hand, the main weapon of the 15 mile disks was about 5-10 megatons max.

Assuming that the ID4 ships have weapons and shields in reasonable proportion to eachother (as most sci-fi ships do) this would mean that the city ships shields would be able to withstand maybe a few of their own weapon hits. To be generous lets say that a city ship can survive being hit by its own main weapon 10 times. This gives it shield absorbancy of 100 megatons. It can therefore withstand ONE photon torpedo, but a quantum torpedo would blow it away even with its shields.

This is also consistant with the movie - where the shields absorbed a tacnuke with a yeild of a few dozen kilotons at most.

As for their "blatently" obvious secret weakness, did you even watch the movie??? The only chance that the Earth forces had was a surprise attack from within the mothership. And that thin, thin chance only stemmed from them already having an intact fighter on their hands. I imagine the Trek response to the ID4 aliens being something akin to "Mars Attacks." 'we are sure there was just some sort of misunderstanding'

Except that when they ignore hails on their way to Earth, they will be threatened. When they ignore these (or more than likely when they attack the UFP craft sent to greet them as they did with the helicopters in the film) they will be fired upon. And destroyed.

As for the Armour of the ID4 aliens not withstanding modern weapons fire. I am a little skeptical of Trek armour standing up to much more than a harpoon (ST4) when it comes to modern weapons fire.

The E-D saucer section, crashing, slamming into the ground at speed and careering along the ground for several miles... "Our casualties were light"

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-01-03 04:22pm

Thats assuming the damn thing can even penetrate Earth's shield and global defense grid.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 04:26pm

Vertigo1 wrote:Thats assuming the damn thing can even penetrate Earth's shield and global defense grid.

Trek Earth has no planetary sheilds and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ground based defenses.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-01-03 04:49pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:Thats assuming the damn thing can even penetrate Earth's shield and global defense grid.
Trek Earth has no planetary sheilds and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ground based defenses.

How do you know? We've never actually SEEN the global defenses. In all honestly, all we have to go on is a certain quote from ST:TMP which would seem to indicate that Earth *does* have some KIND of shield and defense grid. However, you could take it either way.

AWACS · Post by **AWACS** » 2003-01-03 05:21pm

Vertigo1 wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:Thats assuming the damn thing can even penetrate Earth's shield and global defense grid.
Trek Earth has no planetary sheilds and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ground based defenses.
How do you know? We've never actually SEEN the global defenses. In all honestly, all we have to go on is a certain quote from ST:TMP which would seem to indicate that Earth *does* have some KIND of shield and defense grid. However, you could take it either way.

The Breen orbitally bombarded San Francisco. If Earth had had a planetary shield they wouldn't have been able to do that.

Necro99 · Post by **Necro99** » 2003-01-03 06:05pm

Even if the Feds win, Imagine the consequences of the mothership crashing into earth =/...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-03 06:48pm

AWACS wrote:
Vertigo1 wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Trek Earth has no planetary sheilds and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ground based defenses.
How do you know? We've never actually SEEN the global defenses. In all honestly, all we have to go on is a certain quote from ST:TMP which would seem to indicate that Earth *does* have some KIND of shield and defense grid. However, you could take it either way.
The Breen orbitally bombarded San Francisco. If Earth had had a planetary shield they wouldn't have been able to do that.

You see the damage that San Fransico took? Not quite MT ranged. Its entirely possible that a planetary shield redirected most of the fire targeted on it. Then there is the fact that the 80 breen ships were destroyed in less then five minutes time and BEFORE the Federation fleet was able to respond from Utopia Planitia.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-01-03 07:20pm

Surely they would have learned a lesson about planetary defences after the Borg strolled on through pas the pitiful excuses for defences they had in the Sol system in Best of Both Worlds. No-one is stupid enough to not plug up such a blatant hole in their defences.

Necro99 · Post by **Necro99** » 2003-01-03 08:17pm

People, please take a look at this.
http://members.fortunecity.com/zardalu/1000mpp.htm
the Mothership is WAY Bigger than even the whale probe or EVEN the death star

I think the mothership would crack the planet in two if it crashed, or if it was even defeated.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-03 10:01pm

Necro99 wrote:Even if the Feds win, Imagine the consequences of the mothership crashing into earth =/...

Picturing the destruction, I have only one word: Cool!

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-03 10:02pm

Tractor beams would be a logical precaution.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-03 10:04pm

Necro99 wrote:People, please take a look at this.
http://members.fortunecity.com/zardalu/1000mpp.htm
the Mothership is WAY Bigger than even the whale probe or EVEN the death star

I think the mothership would crack the planet in two if it crashed, or if it was even defeated.

What part of "Pics do not make an argument" do you not understand?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-03 11:45pm

Ender wrote:
Necro99 wrote:People, please take a look at this.
http://members.fortunecity.com/zardalu/1000mpp.htm
the Mothership is WAY Bigger than even the whale probe or EVEN the death star

I think the mothership would crack the planet in two if it crashed, or if it was even defeated.
What part of "Pics do not make an argument" do you not understand?

Indeed....copy and paste is what they are....not even a scale.

Cyaround,
Jason

Necro99 · Post by **Necro99** » 2003-01-04 12:13am

So you stop complaining:

The pics are on the 1000x page, EVERY SINGLE picture on that page is on 1000 meter x 1 pixel scale. Exactly.

Necro99 · Post by **Necro99** » 2003-01-04 12:14am

1000 SQUARE meter per pixel excuse me.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-04 12:22am

Why don't you get it necro? Size doesn't matter! It's like a giant hunk of styrofoam vs a nuke. Is the styrofoam really friggin big? yes. Is it really friggin durable? No.

Feds own ID4 aliens.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-04 01:22am

Necro: post an argument, or shut up. Size isn't everything. It shows engineering ability, but other then that not alot. And size in and of itself says nothing about combat abilities. After all, I can beat the shit out of the biggest Amish guy in the world.

Post an argument based on weapons or defenses, ro something, because this shit doesn't cut it.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

ID4 Aliens vs DS9 era Earth

What would happen?

ID4 Aliens vs DS9 era Earth