[OmniBack] Can the Borg assimilate a Founder?

[SirNitram]

Debate of the issue requires you learn how to support your claims. You do not, so you get removed from normal forums. Also: You just did a very stupid thing. Me, I'm lenient. I let users stay and keeping handing them rope with which to hang themselves. Dalton does not. You were told to give a reason why you shouldn't be banned for being a banned user's mouthpiece. And your rebuttal is.. You were asked to be his mouthpeice.

Goodbye, little tool. If you were interested in more than shrieking, you'd use the search function.

[brianeyci]

Omniback, your kind of thinking is pretty stupid. Just because the Dominion can beat the Federation and the Borg can beat the Federation that doesn't mean the Borg can beat the Dominion.

That's not what I've said at all.

How old are you Omniback? You just gave a rebuttal right here,

So brianeyci states that the Dominion can hold their own/defeat the Borg because "The Dominion weapons platforms on the home front, shielded huge weapons platforms strong enough to resist a whole Federation fleet.", and I counter this with the fact that a single Borg cube can completely rape the same fleet and you want to know what the point is?

claiming exactly that. By the way your first sentence is misrepresenting what I said.

Because Kane is right, and the phased part is a trick.

What are you talking about?

Scroll back and see where Kane Starkiller says that the Dominion phased polaron beams is a trick with little firepower. After that I ceased posting. How could you read part of the thread and not the rest asshole? How could you read part of the thread and have the gall to come back a month later, and not read the rest?

So the Dominion would probably get its ass raped, just not because of some kind of "firepower ladder."

Again, what are you talking about?

You're the one who claims I said there's some kind of firepower ladder, and you give a rebuttal which says that since the Dominion can beat the Federation, and the Borg can beat the Federation, the Dominion can beat the Borg. Here's a little logic for you.

a > c
b > c

Does that imply that a > b or b > a? Of course not, but your rebuttal claims it does, just like a no-math moron would think. In order to prove a > b > c in sequence like that, first you have to prove b > c, then a > b, then a > c. Of course if you have a rigorous first year Calculus under your belt you'd know this.

EDIT: By the way I read back, because I didn't remember what I read weeks ago and I don't think I was so stupid as to claim what you said I claimed Omni. And I didn't. I brought up weapons platforms in response to transwarp, stating that weapons platforms are static defenses.

What you posted is clear for all to see, don't back out of it now.

You're a lying little shit. You said this,

So brianeyci states that the Dominion can hold their own/defeat the Borg because "The Dominion weapons platforms on the home front, shielded huge weapons platforms strong enough to resist a whole Federation fleet."

And after Flagg brought up transwarp, I said this,

Transwarp is a strategic advantage. Plus the cube travels at slower speeds most of the time, to fight and assimilate on the way.

The Dominion relies on weapons platforms on the home front, shielded huge weapons platforms strong enough to resist a whole Federation fleet. I don't think the Borg advantage is as great as you put it at all.

the context of the advantage clearly being transwarp, not firepower. I made no claim to the firepower of the Dominion weapons platforms at all except with the phased polaron part, which later Kane brought up was a trick and I then stopped posting. Since where do you little fucks get off on coming on a month later, when everybody's forgotten what's being said and nobody's interested anymore, to nitpick one little thing? By the way if you want to lie, it's not at all clear that the same Federation fleet would be raped by the Borg at all. The fleet which engaged the weapons platforms was several hundred ships, but the fleet which engaged the Borg cube we saw on screen was a handful. And yes, you will probably bring up the novelization, but that is non-canonical. Picard ordered focus fire, and several hundred ships focusing fire on a Borg cube could immediately cause critical damage. I know Trekkies don't like the implications of what Picard did in ST:FC, but that's what happened. So it's not clear at all that the Federation would lose to several hundred Federation starships. Backing off my ass.

This didn't involve vivftp at all, so why did you decide to use me? The last I checked me and vivftp left on good terms. If you're going to necro something a month after the fact, why not bring up something two months ago, three months ago, or make a new thread?

[Surlethe]

So far all you assholes have done is talk shit about how he's a troll who got banned, and how I'm stupid for posting someone else's calc instead of doing my own (which is a load of crap, you fucking retards)... are any of you going to actually debate the issue or not.

Your oversimplification of my point is rather annoying, you little snot-faced weasel. I hope you don't make consistent misrepresentation a habit, because it's not a good one to have: it's dishonest and it lends yet more evidence to estimates placing your intelligence considerably beneath that of fecal bacteria. So don't be a liar, ass-boil.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Remember that last ditch effort the Ent-D did, and it had no effect... even without adaptation.

Which can be seen here at 1:39

Uh. As I remember it that attack had no effect because with Picard's knowledge of it the Borg were able to anticipate it and adapt their shields so it was useless. So claiming that " it had no effect... even without adaptation" is, in fact, a bald-faced lie.

In fact, in the novel "Vendetta" (I know, non-canon, but it's still an interesting tidbit) the same technique was attempted by the USS Intrepid (IIRC) and it was one-shotting Borg cubes left and right.

[Stark]

It's stupid to whine about how we're 'talking shit' when vivftp has his own spot in Parting Shots. Actually, since I've been busy and I'm feeling nice, this thread contains his greatest hits.

Omniback's offensive (and stupid) inability to grasp why he should be able to explain his claims beyond 'looky looky' aside, people really should be able to apply or demonstrate reasoning they rely on in debates. It's not about 'doing the maths': he's mad a claim, and presented a link as evidence. We can't debate with a link - we're debating with him, so by not defending it (perhaps because he doesn't understand it and only likes the number at the end) he admits the link is useless.

Did everyone with a brain on SB join SDN ages ago? Have there been recent SB migrants who aren't retarded?

Fixed your tags, and yes, we have a couple of SBers who aren't retarded, my boyfriend included.



~Z~

[Batman]

So let me get this straight-OmniMoron is basing his position on (completely garbage unsurprisingly) calculations by vivftp that vivftp himself has disavowed but WE are the ones unwilling to rationally debate?

[Starglider]

So do I need to bother ripping that pathetically retarded VivFTP calc apart or is it already completely written off?

[Master of Cards]

So do I need to bother ripping that pathetically retarded VivFTP calc apart or is it already completely written off?

Hes not using it for debates ever again so i assume its dead other then Omi bringing it up as a last ditch block.

[Batman]

So do I need to bother ripping that pathetically retarded VivFTP calc apart or is it already completely written off?

I think I'll take a shot at it myself due to sheer boredom.

BUT just for the hell of it, I'll use the figure from True Q (12.75 billion gigawatts while the ship was at impulse speeds) as a minimum number just to see what the cube adapted to.

Blithely assuming that a)that number is correct to begin with when that would require the E-D, even assuming perfect reactivity AND 100% efficiency, to burn 141 kilograms of reactant EVERY SECOND sitting in orbit doing nothing, and b) every last watt is directed into the swiss army knife deflector AND applied to the Borg Cube'O'Doom with no losses whatsoever.
When we know the guy saying it has been shown to be a complete and utter moron about science on a number of occasions. As has, of course, virtually every OTHER TNG lead character.

I've been told 1 megaton = about 4,15E15 Joules, so work that out, and I believe we have about 3.072 gigatons/second hitting the cube. I believe the firing sequence was about 40 seconds, so that means the cube took at LEAST

COMPLETE conjecture, even if the ridiculous power figure is correct, because we have NO FUCKING IDEA how much of that energy was channeled into leave alone was applied by the deflector,

(since the power figure was from the ship at impulse, but in this case they used warp power, so far more powerful)...

Which is a BLATANT LIE. The power figure was for the WARP CORE. Wether the ship was at Warp, Impulse, under station-keeping thrusters or in spacedock doesn't figure into it.

so the cube took at LEAST 122,891 gigatons, or over 0.122 teratons of energy slamming into it...

Actually the Cube took AT THE UTTERLY RIDICULOUS MOST 0.122 TT and that's already using the completely at odds with every actually SHOWN feat of the E-D 12.75 billion TW dialogue-by-a-known-moron figure AND assuming all of it is a)channeled through the deflector and b) actually hits the Cube, which is, unsurprisingly as this is vivftp we're talking about, supported by nothing whatsoever.
What we actually SEE is a technobabble beam of completely undeterminable power achieving nothing whatsoever. The only energy actually canonically applied to the Borg defenses is whatever is needed to maintain the lightshow.

[Singular Intellect]

so the cube took at LEAST 122,891 gigatons, or over 0.122 teratons of energy slamming into it...

Actually the Cube took AT THE UTTERLY RIDICULOUS MOST 0.122 TT

Just a nitpick, but 122,891 gigatons is 122 teratons.

[Batman]

so the cube took at LEAST 122,891 gigatons, or over 0.122 teratons of energy slamming into it...

Actually the Cube took AT THE UTTERLY RIDICULOUS MOST 0.122 TT

Just a nitpick, but 122,891 gigatons is 122 teratons.

Quite correct. But what those calculations result in is 122.891 GT, not 122,891 GT. So vivftp was quite correct (within the framework of his thoroughly unsupported calculations) to state 0.122 TT. I suppose that it was either a typo or vivftp is used to using the COMMA to indicate a decimal point, which several European countries do.

[Starglider]

The bit I liked was actually the outright statement 'this weapon does 245,782 times as much damage as the highest upper limit (multiply by ten for the Tech Manual figure, by 100 realistic figure) for photon torpedo yield'. Yet it is never used against any other target, nor do we ever see any other indication that Trek ships can deal anything like this yield. That has to rank in the top ten most concentrated pieces of idiocy I've ever seen.

[Starglider]

Quite correct. But what those calculations result in is 122.891 GT, not 122,891 GT. So vivftp was quite correct (within the framework of his thoroughly unsupported calculations) to state 0.122 TT. I suppose that it was either a typo or vivftp is used to using the COMMA to indicate a decimal point, which several European countries do.

Oh, he tagged on this bit later;

Nah, I made an error up above with the whole calcs. I had put a comma, rather than a period, and G_A tried to correct that error, but it was still wrong. The Enterprise would've outputted 122.88 gigatons at the cube.

Which is still idiotic, but brings it down to '~250,000 of actual PT yield as estimated from the asteroid destruction in Pegasus', not '~250,000 of a ludicrously inflated nonsense estimate of PT yield'.

[Surlethe]

The bit I liked was actually the outright statement 'this weapon does 245,782 times as much damage as the highest upper limit (multiply by ten for the Tech Manual figure, by 100 realistic figure) for photon torpedo yield'.

The fact he's using six significant figures indicates by itself that he's unqualified to perform any calculation of this sort.

[Dalton]

If your only purpose here is to act as the mouthpiece of a banned user, then why should we let you stay?

Fuck you.

Indeed, sir.

I'm not acting as a mouth piece for anyone, I simply cited a calc done by another poster to use in this debate.

And that user asked me to post that, saying he didn't support the calc.

Really now. So you managed to contradict yourself in two sentences. I believe that's a record.

Alright. Here's the deal: Since you just flamed an Admin (me) for doing my job (re: "Fuck you."), you have violated rules AR3 and AR6. Furthermore, since you have, in essence, acted in a manner that allows a banned user (vivftp) to continue arguing on this board, you have violated YUP3. The final sentence is immediate ban.

Thank you and fuck off.

[Dark Flame]

22 posts and an immediate and permanent ban. Is that a record?

[Patrick Degan]

Shit. And I was so looking forward to his inevitable trial in the Senate.

[Ritterin Sophia]

22 posts and an immediate and permanent ban. Is that a record?

No, I believe people (Obviously Trolls from the same IP) have been caught and banned before they even had a chance to post.

[bilateralrope]

22 posts and an immediate and permanent ban. Is that a record?

No, I believe people (Obviously Trolls from the same IP) have been caught and banned before they even had a chance to post.

Ok, so per account its not a record.

What about per person ? (meaning that for sock puppets, we also include the posts on their previous accounts)

[Havok]

I must say this. As much as I enjoyed Dalton's quick and merciless beheading, I sorta missed Mike's Clonetrooper.

[Edi]

Off to Parting Shots with this...