[Franc28] Data versus C-3PO

[Franc28]

i already answered this before. Here is the post again:

"Uh, no. No one said anything about "robot labor" being analogous to slavery. We were talking specifically about sapient beings. No one has made such a request, because it's ridiculous on its face.

It is obvious that the enslavement of a sapient being is the equivalent to the enslavement of another sapient being, in that it is an act of enslavement (replace "enslavement" with "forced labor," if you prefer). This much is obvious and beyond dispute. So your question is pretty trivial. The real question is: is any specific labor an act of forced labor? And this is what the debate has mostly hinged upon, so far. So we can examine whether this or that sapient robot (such as R2D2 or C3PO) is being "forced" to labor, whether their "happiness" is proof that they are not forced, etc etc. But that's all we can do."

[Darth Tedious]

That was the post you made right before a moderator told you to put up or shut up.

Do you understand why Edi's name appears in green?

[Bluewolf]

Which said moderator does not need you Me-Tooing for.

[Darth Tedious]

Said moderator can speak for themself, they don't need you to do it. If I'm out of line I'm more than happy for Edi to tell me so.
In case you haven't read the previous page of this thread, the moderator wasn't saying much that I hadn't already said to this guy. It just seemed to me he didn't notice that he was being addressed by an authority.
Me and Franc28 have been addressing each other directly in the debate on this thread for some time, and I was pointing out to him that reposting an entire statement which I have already rebutted is not good enough. Again, in case you haven't read the previoius page, I had already rebutted him before the mod showed up.

Do you have anything to actually contribute to the discussion at hand?

[Franc28]

I am not interested in kowtow to moderator "orders." If it's against the rules, then do whatever you want to my account, but I don't give a damn what you "order" me to do. This is a message board, not the military.
(although with all the soldiers around here, one could be fooled)

[Darth Tedious]

Do you have any logical basis to support your worthless opinion yet? Because it looks to me like you still don't have an arguement.

But certainly it is possible for robots to be slaves.

How is it so?

If you think reposting an entire previous post is cool, try this on for size...

Your entire stance in this debate has been built upon the premise that unpaid robot labour in analogous to human slavery.

You have yet to justify how this is so.

Oh, look! I already asked you that question. You still haven't answered.

While you're thinking about it, would you care to explain this:

C-3PO OTOH, was programmed to want to be an interpreter. He is designed to enjoy his work. He takes great pride in being fluent in over 6 million forms of communication (just ask him). He is still able to comprehend where he is, worry about those he has relationships with, dislike space travel, and even have pleasant experiences (eg. "This oil bath is going to feel so good!").

Then I think you have marshalled enough facts to prove that it is sapient. Do you disagree?

Then I think you have marshalled enough facts to prove that it is sapient. Do you disagree?

Two instances where you referred to 3-CPO as "it".
There seems to be some hypocrisy on your part. For all your whining that robots are people, and deserve to be treated as such, I would have thought that you'd refer to him by his correct pronoun. In case you haven't seen Star Wars, every time someone talks about C-3PO, they refer to him as "he".
Could you at least explain that?

[Darth Tedious]

GHETTO EDIT:Just noticed I'd used the same quote twice.

C-3PO, on the other hand, is a protocol droid, which is a somewhat narrower range of skills, and its personality is rather grating.

This was the second instance.

[Franc28]

...

What the fuck?

It's rather astonishing that I have to say this, but C-3PO... does not have a reproductive system. You fucking dumbass.

Are you seriously a mod on this board? This is by far the stupidest point anyone has raised to me yet on this board (even counting Wong's stupidities in the past). C-3PO a "he"? I am honestly flabbergasted.

Are you just pretending to be a dumbass so I would insult you and get myself banned or something? Because if so, you win. I cannot not insult you for such a profoundly retarded howler. You deserve a serious bitchslap for that one.

If the people of Star Wars call C-3PO a "he," then that simply means that they are just as unreliable as Star Trek people. That's all. Humans- even fictional ones- are often in the wrong.

As for your other question, I've answered it twice now. Get your fingers out of your ears, Mr. "C-3PO is a he." Wow.

[Darth Tedious]

It's rather astonishing that I have to say this, but C-3PO... does not have a reproductive system. You fucking dumbass.

You do realise that Data also has no reproductive system, don't you? If a girl wears a strap-on dildo, it doesn't make her a "he". It just means there's a dildo there. Which would make Data an "it". Why do you refer to him as male, then, hmm? I do it because he's sentient, and prefers "he" over "it". It's about showing respect.
In the case of C-3PO, he isn't a fembot. There are droids in Star Wars with female voices. Once again, it's a basic level of respect for a sentient being (even if they are a non-living robotic being that I am happy to work for no pay).

Are you seriously a mod on this board?

Can you read, fucktard?
Edi's name appears in green because he is a moderator.
How the fuck have you been here any length of time and not picked up on shit like that?

Are you just pretending to be a dumbass so I would insult you and get myself banned or something?

If I were a mod I would have already banned you by now.

I definitely have to tell my friends about that one.

Indeed, tell your friends that you thought I was a moderator. You must be thrilled with your incise observational skills.

I wish I had an award to give you, because that was downright award-worthy.

I think you should keep that award for yourself.

Humans make errors. Deal with it.

Yeah, like thinking I was a mod after I asked you if you knew why Edi's name appears in green!

As for your other question, I've answered it twice now.

No. You tried to backpedal your way out of answering it, by denying anybody said anything about robot slavery. You have repeatedly compared the slavery of robots to the slavery of humans, even citing Star Trek as an example.
You have failed to provide any logical argument to back this up.
The only evidence you have offered as proof is your own opinion, as if that is proof of anything.

This broken record shit is getting old. Are you going to actually attempt to answer the question, or just keep denying every argument you've made thus far?

[Edi]

i already answered this before. Here is the post again:

"Uh, no. No one said anything about "robot labor" being analogous to slavery. We were talking specifically about sapient beings. No one has made such a request, because it's ridiculous on its face.

It is obvious that the enslavement of a sapient being is the equivalent to the enslavement of another sapient being, in that it is an act of enslavement (replace "enslavement" with "forced labor," if you prefer). This much is obvious and beyond dispute. So your question is pretty trivial. The real question is: is any specific labor an act of forced labor? And this is what the debate has mostly hinged upon, so far. So we can examine whether this or that sapient robot (such as R2D2 or C3PO) is being "forced" to labor, whether their "happiness" is proof that they are not forced, etc etc. But that's all we can do."

You made that argument earlier as a statement of fact without bothering to explain your premises or address the criticisms leveled against it.

Specifically, you failed to address the distinction between forced labor of creatures that inherently have free will (such as humans) vs. labor performed by entities that necessarily do not have inherent free will (robots). A robot is a machine created for the purpose of a specific task or tasks. It is programmed to do those things and if it is given enough sapience, presumably also invested with an enjoyment of what it does. In such an instance, having the robot perform its designated task (such as 3P0 acting as a protocol droid or R2-D2 as a starship mechanic) that it was purposely designed for cannot a priori be labeled forced labor.

The situation is quite different from e.g. that of the Athenian prisoners of war who were enslaved and worked to death in the limestone quarries of Syracusa in Sicily, which was slavery.

You have in no way established that a robot and a human (or other biological sapient being) are equivalent for the purposes of forced labor. They can be in some instances, but that is not true for all instances.

I am not interested in kowtow to moderator "orders." If it's against the rules, then do whatever you want to my account, but I don't give a damn what you "order" me to do. This is a message board, not the military.
(although with all the soldiers around here, one could be fooled)

I told you on the previous page to address the points raised against you, but if the quoted post of yours applies to my order, I will happily allow you to explain yourself to the administrators.

[Lagmonster]

I am not interested in kowtow to moderator "orders." If it's against the rules, then do whatever you want to my account, but I don't give a damn what you "order" me to do. This is a message board, not the military.

When you're a guest in someone else's home, do you always declare that they can't tell you what you can and cannot do in their own homes? This board is private property, and your participation here hinges on following the owner's rules. What is being asked of you is no greater than what is asked of anyone else here, but only you seem to have a problem with that.

If you don't like the standards you're being held to and you don't want to listen to the staff, just leave; don't post your primate bravado or throw a hissy fit involving colourful associations with Nazis or post a tirade about how and why you don't like it here - nobody gives a shit, and we have better things to do than run verbal circles with a retard whose idea of supporting his position is to repeat it over and over as though it must be self-evident.

If leaving seems too difficult for you and meeting the standards of evidence one would expect from a teenage debate club offends your pride, we will happily show you the fucking door.

[Dalton]

I am not interested in kowtow to moderator "orders." If it's against the rules, then do whatever you want to my account, but I don't give a damn what you "order" me to do. This is a message board, not the military.
(although with all the soldiers around here, one could be fooled)

All too easy.

[Edi]

Moved to Parting Shots.