The new world

[Surlethe]

First of all if you are "titleing me" democratically in another thread. I will not post under some comical or derogatory title.

You've been posting under that title for five days. Moron.

I know what systems have been tried and failed before, but the system you used was not globalized as it needs to be in order to work and we did not have the technology that we have today to support a more efficient system.

...thus, the government should force industries to modernize, rather than them doing it themselve. The government has no business getting into the industries when they're going to modernize themselves anyway! You obviously know jack shit about economics.

I just want to take the waste out of the system and ownership and indirect trade is super wasteful. We dont need the middlemen anymore but we sure need more help with environmental clean up.

Bullshit. Ownership is about as non-wasteful as anything can get, because ownership is the foundation of production. You're a cumsucking idiot.

We have developed what is needed to jump into a different way of life, which is to manage the planet efficiently. We dont have the manpower to replace inefficient systems but we have plenty of people haggling over prices.

There really is no more inefficient system than a free bureaucratic distribution of basic resources. Rather than at the efficient distribution point -- that is, at the equilibrium -- the government sets the price at 0. This leads to massive shortages; nobody will want to produce the product, since there is no profit; if the government prints money to pay producers, then gives the goods away, hyperinflation will ensue, which is very, very bad. Of course, a moron like you wouldn't understand such elementary concepts -- after all, you couldn't be bothered with paying attention in class, now, could you? Retard.

I say materials are free its only the labor that you should be paid for. Ship products direct when you can and produce them in an environmentally sound manner. Stop building junk just so you have something to sell and stop trying to make a profit.

FOR THE THIRD TIME, ASSHOLE:

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH, YOU ASININE FUCKTARD

My accomplishments: 21 years as a production manager for Wonder bread and Hostess cake in Buffalo, Natick Ma. and Cleveland and technical and engineering advise to Philladelphia Pa and East Brunswick NJ. Many of the operating systems used nationally were designed by me. I probably redesigned more work areas than all other employees combined. The production numbers I left behind were astounding. I eliminated union vs management disputs and accidents as well as increased efficiency by about 20%. I probably fixed about a thousand problems that no one else could and I used many systems that were never tried before and some that had tried and failed before and my systems improved the operation every time without fail.

You're a lying flake of dried shiteating cumjuice. Post the fucking evidence.

I also finished last in my high school class of 450 because I slept through the education that was being taught on purpose with purpose. I don't need your education to solve the problems that you cannot. Its common sense that I use and every automation project (about 12 ) was approved by the general office and was a success.

Or maybe you finished last because you're a cuntslimy moron? Had you considered that option?

The prophesy that I lived was just as the bible said I would live. What proof would you like to see? I can fax a court doc that clearly outlines my defiant stand against the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It was a biblical trial at the millenium just as predicted and I did exactly what the bible said that I would. Sworded tongue verses your best judges and district attorneys in 2 trials on both sides of 2000 and I tore them apart as a defendant. I denied nothing that they said that I did, in fact I verified it and defended it. No one has ever waged a war like I did against your way of life.

Why don't you post the court docs instead? Don't try that sorry trollish excuse you're not experienced enough with the internet to post images to a web board.



NB: Because you have refused to debate me properly, you lying bullfucker, I am only continuing these replies for my own amusement. Maybe you'll learn something, troll; maybe not. Either case, I am amused by your sheer lack of intelligence. Let me ask you one thing: how the hell do you breathe?

[Lord Zentei]

Oh dear, a 'war against our way of life'.

Bring it.

What an annoying peice of shit this guy is. Though, it does make me wish I had typed out and saved the looney prophecies about me.. I could simply post rambling bullshit in line with them in response. Two messiahs post, one messiah leaves!

Ah, but have you been on trial during the turn of the century? Only our Jesus-boy Jake99 can make such a claim. Yup, sword-tounged defence in court, just like it says in the Bible. That's how he knows he is the Messiah.

Also, we have to trust his expertise because he went on training missions and worked for a bank not to mention that numerous psychyatrists investigated him and were unable to prove that he was insane.

[Surlethe]

Also, we have to trust his expertise because he went on training missions and worked for a bank not to mention that numerous psychyatrists investigated him and were unable to prove that he was insane.

From the mouths of their doctors who were
unable to find anything wrong with me I was
considered sane and competnet to stand trial
at the turn of the century where I slew them
with my sword-tongue and now you must bury
your evil justice system for it is outmoded and
does not serve the common good by enforcing
your evil capitalist pig ideas.

XANATOS

[Knife]

Going way back to the title of this thread, I find his 'new world' frightening as hell.

[SirNitram]

Oh dear, a 'war against our way of life'.

Bring it.

What an annoying peice of shit this guy is. Though, it does make me wish I had typed out and saved the looney prophecies about me.. I could simply post rambling bullshit in line with them in response. Two messiahs post, one messiah leaves!

Ah, but have you been on trial during the turn of the century? Only our Jesus-boy Jake99 can make such a claim. Yup, sword-tounged defence in court, just like it says in the Bible. That's how he knows he is the Messiah.

Also, we have to trust his expertise because he went on training missions and worked for a bank not to mention that numerous psychyatrists investigated him and were unable to prove that he was insane.

No. I bring the pain with fire, no sissy mouth-swords.

[DPDarkPrimus]

"And it would be known that the Chosen One would be mocked and ridiculed for his stupidity. So sayth THE LORD"

It's fun to read Apocryptica.

[Mark S]

Workplace safety - There are entire workplace health and safety boards.

Workplace/Union Mediation - There are entire companies that do this. Manufacturing plants in every industrialized nation around the world with unions have managed this on their own.

Increasing production efficiency - Every manufacturing company still in business has done this over the time that you claim to have.

Improving workstation efficiency - Any Industrial Engineering graduate with zero years work experience can do this.

Taking credit for implementing an idea - Middle management cogs around the world do this.

Coming up with ideas, getting other people to actually flesh them out and see them through, and than taking the credit - Middle management cogs around the world do this.

Jake, I would like an example of something that you have done that no other person can do, not an example of something that no one had done YET at Wonder Bread or where ever (if you are to be believed) at the time that you were there. Not something that was your job to do while you were there and that millions of other people have done in positions like the one you claim to have had. You said that you have done things no one else has. Let's have them.

Oh, and the millenium was 2001. Though I'm sure you were in top sword-tongue fighting form then too.

[Jay]

I did a search on Westlaw, Casetrack and Findlaw. No reference to Wrentham Ma. VS James Murphy Dkt# 9857cr2993 and 9857cr2988 could I find on either of them. Philosophy of the Law specialist subject finally came in handy.

[Lord Zentei]

OK, Jake, since you seem to be ignorant of basic economic facts, I propose to explain some of them to you. First up is the concept of something called "Comparative Advantage", which is crucial in making trade as important as it is. I'll illustrate it with a classical thought experiment: Robinson Crusoe and Friday (part of this short story is a rewrite from a similar short story in a textbook on macroeconomics by Gregory Mankiw, though the thought experiment is much older than this).


Robinson Crusoe is stranded on a desert island. He is able to subsist (marginally) by gathering breadfruit and catching the small fish that are to be found in a river on the island. Unfortunately, being a stupid whitey he isn't very good at either of these tasks. Let's say that in a day of labour, he can either gather eight breadfruit or catch four fish, or a combination of the two (depending on how he splits his labour). Let's say he catches two fish a day, and four breadfruit, and survives on this meager fare.

Later he meets an islander and calls him Fryday. Fryday, being highly skilled in matters of survival, can catch forty fish or gather ten breadfruit in a day, or a combination thereof, depending on how he splits his labour, i.e. his survival skills are superior in every way to those of Crusoe. He consumes twenty fish and five breadfruit per day; thus his standard of living is vastly superior to that of Crusoe. Fortunately for our clumsy hero, he is also a trained economist:


FRIDAY: Crusoe, my man, do I have a deal for you! I know how to improve life for us both. I think you should stop fishing altogether and devote all your time to gathering breadfruit. According to my calculations, you'll produce eight breadfruit in a day. If you'll give me two of those breadfruit, I'll give you three fish in return. That way, you'll have six breadfruit and three fish every day. You’ll have more of both types of food.

CRUSOE: That sounds like a good deal to me... but I don't understand why you are offering it. If the deal is so good for me, it can't be good for you too.

FRIDAY: Oh, but it is! Let's say that I spend more time fishing: I can catch forty fish or gather ten breadfruit in a day. This means that for every given amount of time I spend catching fish instead of gathering breadfruit, I sacrifice one breadfruit and gain four fish. Right now, I'm catching twenty fish and gathering five breadfruit in a day. If I instead I catch twenty four fish and gather four breadfruit, I'll have twenty one fish and six breadfruit after we trade. I too will have more of both foods after the trade.

CRUSOE: I don’t know… this sounds too good to be true.

FRIDAY: It’s really not as complicated as it sounds at first. Here, I have summarised my proposal on the following table:

Code: Select all

CRUSOE
Before trade............ 2 fish, 4 fruit.
With specialization..... 0 fish, 8 fruit.
Trade................... +3 fish, -2 fruit.
Total after trade....... 3 fish, 6 fruit.
Gains from trade........ +1 fish, +2 fruit.

FRIDAY
Before trade............ 20 fish, 5 fruit.
With specialization..... 24 fish, 4 fruit.
Trade................... -3 fish, +2 fruit.
Total after trade....... 21 fish, 6 fruit.
Gains from trade........ +1 fish, +1 fruit.

CRUSOE: These calculations seem correct, but I am puzzled. How can this deal make us both better off?

FRIDAY: We both benefit because trade allows each of us to specialize in what we do best. You will spend more time gathering fruit and less time fishing, while I will spend more time fishing and less time gathering fruit. As a result of specialization and trade, each of us can consume more breadfruit and more fish without working any more hours.


And there you have it, Jake, the principle of Comparative Advantage in a easy-to understand short story. Comparative advantage in a field means that your productivity is greater than that of your trading partner comparative to your productivity in other fields, which always occours, except in the special case where the relative performance of the two parites is equal (in which case trade is a neutral activity), though given the vast range of potential capabilities, this almost never occours. In the above example we used “Crusoe” and “Friday” to denote individuals, but these labels could just as easily represent families, firms, villages, cities, corporations, countries or continents, or any combination thereof.


Next up: the value-creating effects of trade. We'll illustrate this with a little short story too. Two colonists on Mars are in a bit of a pickle. One has two solar power/battery generators but his heater/lighter system is about to burn out and he has no spare parts, the other has two heater/lighter systems, but his generator is damaged; the battery is highly worn and won't last much longer. Again, no spare parts are available.

In the case of the first colonist the second power generator is redundant; it is simply weighing him down; it has little value. In the case of the second colonist, the second heater/lighter is also redundant for the same reason, and it too has little value. The two meet at the foothills of Olympus Mons.

Obviously, they make a trade, swapping a spare power generator for a spare heater/lighter. Now, in the hands of the first colonist the spare heater/lighter is very valuable indeed. His wealth is thus increased. Similarly, the spare power generator/battery is very valuable in the hands of the second colonist. His wealth is increased. This illustrates an important point: value is subjective. Therefore, trade can actually increase the total wealth of a population be reallocating goods and services to those who value them. Eliminate trade and this value-generating effect is eliminated with it.


Hopefully, these little examples will have helped you understand some of the problems with your ideas.

[Pcm979]

I think I've lost a few I.Q. points reading all that. Seriously.

Here's a rough summation of his background, as I remember it:

1) At the age of 14, decided he didn't like the Western World's economic system.
2) Was in boot camp, where he was delegated to useless positions.
3) The army tried to give him a mediocre position, and he went to court over it. (Or something).
4) He was a middle manager in a bread-making company.
5) The messiah cannot spell, use paragraphs, use a spell checker, cut and paste, or crack open a dictionary.

[Lord Zentei]

I think I've lost a few I.Q. points reading all that. Seriously.

Here's a rough summation of his background, as I remember it:

1) At the age of 14, decided he didn't like the Western World's economic system.
2) Was in boot camp, where he was delegated to useless positions.
3) The army tried to give him a mediocre position, and he went to court over it. (Or something).
4) He was a middle manager in a bread-making company.
5) The messiah cannot spell, use paragraphs, use a spell checker, cut and paste, or crack open a dictionary.

And as he has refused to provide evidence for his assetions (despite promising to do so), we can't rely on items #2, #3 and #4. Though we can add:

6) The messiah refuses to back his shit up.

[Darth Lucifer]

My accomplishments: 21 years as a production manager for Wonder bread and Hostess cake in Buffalo, Natick Ma. and Cleveland and technical and engineering advise to Philladelphia Pa and East Brunswick NJ. Many of the operating systems used nationally were designed by me.

Translation=Head dough tosser in the local Wonder/Hostess bakery.

I probably redesigned more work areas than all other employees combined. The production numbers I left behind were astounding.

English = I rearranged the bread carts in the kitchen.

I probably fixed about a thousand problems that no one else could and I used many systems that were never tried before and some that had tried and failed before and my systems improved the operation every time without fail.

What are these "systems" you are babbling about? Are you talking about industrial mixers, proofers, conveyor belt ovens...be specific.

Its common sense that I use and every automation project (about 12 ) was approved by the general office and was a success.

More vague masturbatory remarks. What do you do exactly??? Are you saying that before you came along, the staff was using wooden spoons to mix the dough?

[Pcm979]

And as he has refused to provide evidence for his assetions (despite promising to do so), we can't rely on items #2, #3 and #4. Though we can add:

6) The messiah refuses to back his shit up.

I'm inclined to believe him on those points, simply because they're pretty pathetic positions to use to try and make yourself look accomplished.

[Nephtys]

I just want to take the waste out of the system and ownership and indirect trade is super wasteful.

And communism isn't wasteful. Reference: Five Year Plans (China, USSR). Thanks to those, nobody starved to death! Right?! Heh.. eh..... meh....... (ouch)

I say materials are free its only the labor that you should be paid for.

Because materials producers should be slave labor, or robots. Or slave robots.

Ship products direct when you can and produce them in an environmentally sound manner.

Because changing truck routes will make your production more eco-friendly.

Stop building junk just so you have something to sell and stop trying to make a profit.

Because companies always produce massive quantities of things they don't want to sell, and just hoard. Also: Companies should stop giving a damn.

I also finished last in my high school class of 450 because I slept through the education that was being taught on purpose with purpose. I don't need your education to solve the problems that you cannot. Its common sense that I use and every automation project (about 12 ) was approved by the general office and was a success.

Fact: You graduated last in the class. Two possible conclusions.
1. You are a true rennisance man, with super intellect and the power of Lenin, Marx and Mao behind you in a triumverate of socialist power, destined to lead mankind into a benevolent future of workers owning factories.
2. You're a goddamned idiot.

The prophesy that I lived was just as the bible said I would live.

An excerpt, from the book of Bullshit, 2:15.
"And henceforth, thy greatest idiot of thy land shalt produceth no concrete evidence as commanded by I, his lord and god Jehova, and continue in his career within the holy bread plant I have provided, as a job an undergraduate of english could even have acquired within the span of six days (seventh resting, playing video games)."

[R.O.A]

Ahmen!!

[Lord Zentei]

And as he has refused to provide evidence for his assetions (despite promising to do so), we can't rely on items #2, #3 and #4. Though we can add:

6) The messiah refuses to back his shit up.

I'm inclined to believe him on those points, simply because they're pretty pathetic positions to use to try and make yourself look accomplished.

Quite.

Anyway, he seems to have buggered off back under his bridge. No posts in the past couple of days. Dare I hope that he has seen the light?

[Darth Lucifer]

I hope not. I want to know how this fuckwit singlehandedly revolutionized the fucking Twinkie industry.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Anyway, he seems to have buggered off back under his bridge. No posts in the past couple of days. Dare I hope that he has seen the light?

I hope not. I want to know how this fuckwit singlehandedly revolutionized the fucking Twinkie industry.

Maybe we need to poke him with a stick I guess?

[Pcm979]

But remember, he refuses to post under a comical or derogatory title! Rather Belatedly!

[Lord Zentei]

I did a search on Westlaw, Casetrack and Findlaw. No reference to Wrentham Ma. VS James Murphy Dkt# 9857cr2993 and 9857cr2988 could I find on either of them. Philosophy of the Law specialist subject finally came in handy.

His "trial" didn't take place? What a surprise.

I'm sure he finished last in class, though.

[Pcm979]

Obviously he's dealt the government so many crippling defeats in court that they've erased all records of his accomplishments.

[Jay]

Not neccessarally. The online law libraries don't include county court judgements and other small matters. If I had the time, I'd go to the law library on campus where there are endless volumes of every legal descision made in both the UK and the Us; but sadly I do not.

[Surlethe]

OK, Jake, since you seem to be ignorant of basic economic facts, I propose to explain some of them to you.
<snipz>

Good idea.

Jake99, here is why your proposal to distribute basic needs is bad:



First, let's become familiar with the basic Supply and Demand Chart.

*The Supply Curve is the line describing the quantity of a good available at a given price. A good (in this case, basic necessities) is distributed by suppliers; therefore, because people respond to incentives, it stands to reason as the price increases, suppliers are willing to supply more of the good because they will make more money. Follow?

*The Demand Curve is the line describing the quantity of a good demanded at a given price. Consumers want a good. Thus, it stands to reason as the price increases, the number of goods demanded will decrease because people don't want to pay as much money.

Thus, to find the quantity supplied and the quantity demanded, we set a price -- a line drawn across the graph. If the government decides to set a price beneath the Equilibrium Point -- the point where the supply and demand curves intersect -- then the quantity demanded will be greater than the quantity supplied, and shortages will result -- consumers will want more of the good than exists, because suppliers are unwilling to supply at such low prices.

Your proposal to freely distribute basic goods will thus lead to inconceivable shortages of the commodities.

[Mark S]

But remember, he refuses to post under a comical or derogatory title! Rather Belatedly!

I think he should have been titled 'Twinkie the Kid'.

[Jake99]

I will get some court docs scannned and try and post them. You are right any 15 year old can do this but I am 50 and did not learn how to do this stuff. You are right that I worked in the Twinkie factories and I was a Production Superintendent who also fixed or directed the repair of all machines and systems. I dont even have a college degree and they wanted me to manage the largest facilities. I must be a dummy, and they just overlooked the college grads with masters degrees. What I do is reduce stress which is Americas silent killer. What I did everywhere I went was solve the problems that the union and the company was upset with and no one ever complained again. The chaos and stress went away and peace and prosperity remained. Yes I recommend Communism and just because an idiot and a murderer tried it once before and failed does not mean its not the way. The way you do business causes all of the stress and wars. Stats like 9 out of 10 small businesses fail in the first 5 years and over 200,000 people dying in the work places of China per year as well as 70% divorce rate amoung Christians speaks load and clear of the success of Capitalism. Only with superior weapons can you spread such a viscious sytem to the world. The US is the worlds largest polluter and resourse user and you want me to understand and support your economic systems. Your systems are manpower and resourse inefficient which is what all industries try and eliminate. Your systems require gambling and corruption to run them, such as the stock market, lotteries, casinos and sports betting. Get real you are the anti christ and I dont care how your system works because I would never endorse that which causes this. Resourses are scarce because you manage them poorly nothing more. I don't have enough lobsters to go around but if you farm them we will have far more than we do now. I want my title changed to "The Messiah" which is who I am. I could probably do it myself but again I do not have education in that field either.