[boc120] Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

[weemadando]

So - then, by your sick and twisted fucking EVIL logic, those people who for THOUSANDS OF YEARS lived in societies where Christianity did not exist have been condemned to an eternity of damnation? What about those today who live in a society that doesn't allow religious freedom - where they have not heard the word of "God"?

Does the fact that what would likely be some OBSCENELY LARGE percentage of the worlds population have been unaware in some way of the message of your "God" and have thus been condemned to eternal damnation - just because an OMNIPOTENT "God" couldn't be bothered spreading his word further than one tiny strip of land?

That's either racist, genocidal, stupid, lazy or just plain evil.

[FedRebel]

First that being homosexual in itself is not a sin, being a practicing one is a sin

So you're saying God made homosexuals just so they could commit the 'sin' of homosexuality?

I guess we can add this to the list of reasons why God is evil.

Romans, chapter: 1, verse: 27
27Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.

So people chose not to believe in him so he shows his forgiveness and compassion by making these people gay?

Thank you for this nice bit of info

To all of you out there who embrace alternative lifestyles; next time a fundi says you're a sinning heathen going against the natural order just cite chapter 1 of Romans and say that you can't help an act of God

(because it is a sin). But if a person repents of the act, and abstains from homosexual relations, then it is not an issue.

Romans makes it clear that this is God's will, if he exists then his will can not be undone.

Second is that he doesn't destroy groups of them because of his desire to not destroy the good along with the bad. As in the parable of the weeds and the wheat.

Yes the ten plauges of Egypt after all were surgically targeted at only the Phar...wait a tick the Egyptian population in general suffered his wrath (good and bad a like)

[anybody_mcc]

Works alone will not get you into heaven. But, once someone has truly and fully accepted Jesus into their lives, they will want to do good things, and to follow the commandments because that is what God wants us to do. A born-again Christian can and will continue to sin (its still in our human nature after the fall) but they would be sorry and repent of the sins, and ask both God and the person they sinned against for forgiveness.

Well that's great. So this god values more obedience than being good and moral person.

[wilfulton]

Now as to the "Why is God allowed to kill sinners?" God is God, He gave the commandments to the people of Israel, humans. He told humans not to kill other humans. It is also written that vengeance is not for us to distribute, but that "Vengeance is the Lord's". Therefore, humans "shalt not kill", but if He decides that it is what should be done, then He can do it.

Ah, so we are to play the role of pawns and chattel in His name? That particular god sounds evil to me, not one I'm about to bow before.

Vengeance is not for us to distribute? Okay, but payback is still a bitch.

Actually, wasn't that the first set of commandments? After He saw the golden calf, didn't He shatter the original tablets and come up with a bunch of new ones focused on "worship me because I am God and will castrate you if you don't?" Sounds much like an egotistical asshole more so than any being worthy of the title "divine." If He be so all powerful, why would He even care what mere mortals do for fun?

[The Guid]

That is an excellent question, and one that is omni-present in today's society. It is not enough to "live a good life" The law given to Moses was never intended to be the way to salvation. As my sig (used to) say,
John, chapter: 14, verse: 6
No one can come to the Father except through me. (Jesus)


Works alone will not get you into heaven. But, once someone has truly and fully accepted Jesus into their lives, they will want to do good things, and to follow the commandments because that is what God wants us to do. A born-again Christian can and will continue to sin (its still in our human nature after the fall) but they would be sorry and repent of the sins, and ask both God and the person they sinned against for forgiveness.

But Jesus died on the cross for all our sins. Find me a quote of him saying:

"I die for the ones I like and read a book about me and believe it word for word. The others can go fuck themselves."

[Darth Wong]

That is an excellent question, and one that is omni-present in today's society. It is not enough to "live a good life" The law given to Moses was never intended to be the way to salvation. As my sig (used to) say,
John, chapter: 14, verse: 6
No one can come to the Father except through me. (Jesus)


Works alone will not get you into heaven. But, once someone has truly and fully accepted Jesus into their lives, they will want to do good things, and to follow the commandments because that is what God wants us to do. A born-again Christian can and will continue to sin (its still in our human nature after the fall) but they would be sorry and repent of the sins, and ask both God and the person they sinned against for forgiveness.

You are not answering the questions, asshole. You are just spouting your dogma and ignoring the questions.

PS. To be more specific, you read just enough of the question to decide which canned response you will use. You're worse than a minimum-wage tech-support call centre worker.

[boc120]

He cares what we do because He created us to have a relationship with Him. In the beginning there was little separation between Adam and Eve, and God. They obeyed His authority and were able to do almost anything. What God wants is to have us back in a good two-way relationship as we were designed and created for. But God is holy, and the definition of holy is apartness. He is perfect and by His nature of being holy, cannot tolerate sinners. But because He wanted the relationship to be restored, He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sin, Jesus had to die, and He had to go to Hell. He died, descended into Hell, and on the third day was raised from death in triumph. Now a person can, by accepting Jesus and following the Word of God, be forgiven of their sin and enter into heaven when they die, instead of paying the full price for our sin, which is death and an eternity in Hell. I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed. But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I have seen many people refering to this as a debate, I do not see this as a debate. It is more like asking for questions, and I will answer them, as long as they are within the topic. I don't plan on changing my faith, I doubt that you plan on changing the athiestic stance that most (if not all) have taken. I am not all knowing, but if you can get the Pope to answer your questions on this forum, then go ahead and ask him your questions.

So in other words, since you seem so certain that nobody here will change their views based on what you say, nor will you change your views based on what we say . . . you're admitting that you're just here to troll?

Now as to the "Why is God allowed to kill sinners?" God is God,

Are you aware of how stupid this reasoning is? It would be very much like me going around shooting at anybody who looked at me funny, and when asked why I did it, replying "Because I'm me, and I damned well felt like it."

He gave the commandments to the people of Israel, humans. He told humans not to kill other humans.

Ahem: Joshua 10:19 -- "And stay ye not, but pursue after your enemies, and smite the hindmost of them; suffer them not to enter into their cities: for the LORD your God hath delivered them into your hand."

[Darth Wong]

He cares what we do because He created us to have a relationship with Him. In the beginning there was little separation between Adam and Eve, and God. They obeyed His authority and were able to do almost anything. What God wants is to have us back in a good two-way relationship as we were designed and created for. But God is holy, and the definition of holy is apartness. He is perfect and by His nature of being holy, cannot tolerate sinners. But because He wanted the relationship to be restored, He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sin, Jesus had to die, and He had to go to Hell. He died, descended into Hell, and on the third day was raised from death in triumph. Now a person can, by accepting Jesus and following the Word of God, be forgiven of their sin and enter into heaven when they die, instead of paying the full price for our sin, which is death and an eternity in Hell. I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed. But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

OK asshole, I'm losing patience with you. When you open a thread about a specific subject, you even call it a question and answer session, and then you refuse to answer any questions directly, you should realize that you are not going to be looked upon favourably by the administrative staff.

[Morilore]

Sorry for the minor thread hijack, but when I thought I was in N&P when I saw this thread title. Consequently I thought someone had posted it as news.

Anyway, boc is just being a goodthinkful little duckspeaker. God, I love 1984.

And since you don't appear to be reading the other thread, I'll repost what I wrote there:

We are called to proclaim the good news because we don't want to lose people to hell. Say a friend of mine did not believe, I would tell him the good news, and if he never repents of his sins and accepts Jesus, then he will be eternally separated from God. (end up in hell) Which is why I pay attention to these forums, so that, even though I have been nothing but ridiculed, God doesn't want to lose even the people on this forum.

You may or may not read this, but do you realize that some of us atheists may have similar attitudes? If this is the only life you get - the only chance you get - than to waste it doing something stupid or unhappy is the most shameful waste of a rare gift that can possibly be conceived.

I despise this nihilistic attitude that what we have now is worthless compared to "what lies beyond." It's utter trash that devalues life and provides justification for murderers (or in case you can't tell, it's not that far to go from "God is more important than my life" to "God is more important than everyone else's life").

[The Guid]

He cares what we do because He created us to have a relationship with Him. In the beginning there was little separation between Adam and Eve, and God. They obeyed His authority and were able to do almost anything. What God wants is to have us back in a good two-way relationship as we were designed and created for. But God is holy, and the definition of holy is apartness. He is perfect and by His nature of being holy, cannot tolerate sinners. But because He wanted the relationship to be restored, He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sin, Jesus had to die, and He had to go to Hell. He died, descended into Hell, and on the third day was raised from death in triumph. Now a person can, by accepting Jesus and following the Word of God, be forgiven of their sin and enter into heaven when they die, instead of paying the full price for our sin, which is death and an eternity in Hell. I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed. But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

1. What is "Hell" to you. Out od curiosity.

2. Can you answer weemandando's question at the top of the page concerning those who can not have heard the word of Jesus.

3. Can you answer the related question of those who find God through non-Christian means?

[boc120]

Fine, if it needs to be spelled out, God told people not to kill other people, unless He decides that they need to be destroyed and tells them to do it. He had promised them the land of Israel, and other peoples who worshiped idols and false gods were living there at that time. He told the Israelites to drive them out and destroy them and made sure that His people would win any conflict "I have given them into your hand"

[FedRebel]

I have seen many people refering to this as a debate, I do not see this as a debate. It is more like asking for questions, and I will answer them, as long as they are within the topic.

So you're God's PR guy?

Tell him that he needs to invest in a press room and answer humanities most important questions himself.

I don't plan on changing my faith, I doubt that you plan on changing the athiestic stance that most (if not all) have taken.

bad position

if you're debating a subject you have to accept the possibility that you are wrong, after all you are trying to convince us that we are wrong.

That is an excellent question, and one that is omni-present in today's society. It is not enough to "live a good life" The law given to Moses was never intended to be the way to salvation.

Then what was the point of their conception?

If the ten commandments aren't 'the way' then they have no meaning or value what so ever.

John, chapter: 14, verse: 6
No one can come to the Father except through me. (Jesus)

Whait a go J! you left the plane tickets in your left pocket![/sarcasam]

Seriously, how come his lackies were the only ones who wrote down what to do? And they can't even really agree on what Jesus meant

Surely if Jesus' teachings were so important he would've written them down himself.

Works alone will not get you into heaven. But, once someone has truly and fully accepted Jesus into their lives, they will want to do good things,

blowing up abortion clinics and spending a sizeable portions of the day insulting and persecuting those who believe differently really are 'good' things

and to follow the commandments because that is what God wants us to do.

I thought you said that they were NOT the path to salvation?

A born-again Christian can and will continue to sin (its still in our human nature after the fall) but they would be sorry and repent of the sins,

That's right kids! Three "Hail Mary's" is your 'get out of jail' free card!

and ask both God and the person they sinned against for forgiveness.

...or the nice man in the closet at church

[Noble Ire]

I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed. But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

So, as others have pointed out before, the billions around the world and throughout time who have been ignorant of the word of "God" and the salvation offered by Jesus are condemed to death and an enternity in hell simply because "God" has not seen it fit to use his unlimited power to spread his word and teachings to them. Am I understanding this part of your belief system correctly?

[The Guid]

To stick up for this guy on the "repenting" part. Its not just saying the Hail Mary's for example that is significant, you have to mean it. The idea is that God knows when you are genuinly repentent and do not want to act the way you did again or if you're just fobbing him off with ceremony.

[Lord of the Abyss]

In the beginning there was little separation between Adam and Eve, and God. They obeyed His authority and were able to do almost anything.

It's Suuuper Adam and Ultra Eve ! Did either of them get to wear an "S" on his/her chest ?

] But God is holy, and the definition of holy is apartness.

I'm a loner; am I holy ?

But because He wanted the relationship to be restored, He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sin, Jesus had to die, and He had to go to Hell.

You know, very few therapists recommend this as a means of healing a relationship.

Now a person can, by accepting Jesus and following the Word of God, be forgiven of their sin and enter into heaven when they die, instead of paying the full price for our sin, which is death and an eternity in Hell. I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed.

Speak for yourself; I haven't so much as earned a year in jail, much less an eternity in hell.

But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

So do I; you'll rot in the ground like the rest of us.

Fine, if it needs to be spelled out, God told people not to kill other people, unless He decides that they need to be destroyed and tells them to do it. He had promised them the land of Israel, and other peoples who worshiped idols and false gods were living there at that time. He told the Israelites to drive them out and destroy them and made sure that His people would win any conflict "I have given them into your hand"

I remember somebody else you had a plan like that, but the name escapes me; his first name was Adolf I think.

[anybody_mcc]

He cares what we do because He created us to have a relationship with Him. In the beginning there was little separation between Adam and Eve, and God. They obeyed His authority and were able to do almost anything. What God wants is to have us back in a good two-way relationship as we were designed and created for. But God is holy, and the definition of holy is apartness. He is perfect and by His nature of being holy, cannot tolerate sinners. But because He wanted the relationship to be restored, He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sin,

So what you are saying is : God fucked up his own work somehow and then had to correct his "perfect" work by sending Jesus.
He doesn't seem all powerful and all knowing in this case. Why didn't he make this whole thing right from the beginning ?

Jesus had to die, and He had to go to Hell. He died, descended into Hell, and on the third day was raised from death in triumph. Now a person can, by accepting Jesus and following the Word of God, be forgiven of their sin and enter into heaven when they die, instead of paying the full price for our sin,

And why exactly has Jesus had to die for our sins ? And what's the point of accepting Jesus , couldn't we just accept the original god , it seems much simpler ?

which is death and an eternity in Hell. I, you, all people, deserve death and Hell for the sins I, you, all people, have committed. But because I have accepted Jesus's offer of salvation and do my best to live according to His ways, I don't need to fear death or Hell because I know where I am going after I die.

Isn't this god supposed to be merciful and just ? I would not sentenced anyone to eternal suffering. It's infinite punishment for finite ( we can probably argue about that ) crime , so it's infinitely unjust.

P.S. You are still posting new copy&paste evangelist posts and not answering our questions , why ?

[DPDarkPrimus]

What is the specific reason Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?

Note I said "specific". That means saying "they were wicked" or "they sinned" doesn't work. I want to know the exact crimes that were committed.

[FedRebel]

Fine, if it needs to be spelled out, God told people not to kill other people, unless He decides that they need to be destroyed and tells them to do it.

So Hitler was doing "God's will"? He thought he was anyway

He had promised them the land of Israel, and other peoples who worshiped idols and false gods were living there at that time.

God: sorry about that I didn't see the "sold" sign...excuse me for a sec I need to talk to that nice German chap with the funny mustache

Jews: That's okay we'll make do, go ahead talk to your friend

*later*

Jews: Why did you do this to us?

God: Sorry about that but these nice folks will get you the land I promised

Britian then US/UN: There you go those mean old Germans won't hurt you now...and here's a gift, your 'promised land' is yours again

Jew: Hey wait these other guys are still here, can we do to them what the Germans did to us?

US: Go ahead knock yourselves out, just no killing and forced labor, we're too busy defending the world from the vile commies

He told the Israelites to drive them out and destroy them and made sure that His people would win any conflict "I have given them into your hand"

Was this before or after the book of Judges?

I ask because those iron chariots ended up being a real bitch

[Zero]

Boc, can you just admit that you're going to ignore all logic and reason that disagrees with you, admit that you're just a stupid jackass, and go fuck yourself up the ass with a soldering iron? You're not contributing anything to YOUR OWN FUCKING THREAD, you worthless jackass! Your entire message with this thread is one of hatred and evil.

You've yet to give any reason that God has the right to kill people, aside from the fact that he has the ability to? Any man with a gun has the ability to kill somebody near him. Does that give him right? If a man murdered your family, would you say it was alright simply because he could? Why do different standards apply to god!?

[boc120]

And if the administrative staff do silence me then that is that. But throughout this whole little two day stint I have had actively posting on these boards, I have endured much, might I call it, persecution. Before I even posted anything of consequense, I was attacked because of my sigature, which was taken away. I have had to endure much swearing and profanity directed my way, which is not something I usually have to deal with in my everyday life. True, I knew that profanity was allowed on these boards, but I had hoped that it wasn't needed in nearly every sentence that is written. I have been attacked for simply being a Christian. As it is written, "If you are persecuted for my name's sake, your reward will be great indeed in Heaven." -Jesus

I am now leaving these forums and not returning, if I do end up getting banned, then that will just be insurance for you that I do not return. I am sorry to those who did post good questions and did not immedietly attack because I couldn't answer everyone's questions all at once, when more were piling up by the minute. I hope that some of you at least look into these matters a little further, then at least my time will not have been totally spent in vain.

[SirNitram]

And if the administrative staff do silence me then that is that. But throughout this whole little two day stint I have had actively posting on these boards, I have endured much, might I call it, persecution.

No, you mightn't, you little brat. You have opened a question and answer thread. Answer the questions. Failure shows that you're here to troll, and we don't suffer trolls. Not even ones who claim to be from a 'Kind and loving' God who needs to be talked down from mass murder.

[tumbletom]

Kind of off topic, but is this story where the word 'sodomy' came from or was derived or something?

[anybody_mcc]

Fine, if it needs to be spelled out, God told people not to kill other people, unless He decides that they need to be destroyed and tells them to do it. He had promised them the land of Israel, and other peoples who worshiped idols and false gods were living there at that time. He told the Israelites to drive them out and destroy them and made sure that His people would win any conflict "I have given them into your hand"

I remember somebody else you had a plan like that, but the name escapes me; his first name was Adolf I think.

Good analogy : Promised land here , Lebensraum there. Lesser races here , wrong gods believing tribes there. No mercy and no remorse in both cases. Other similarities could be found.

[SirNitram]

Kind of off topic, but is this story where the word 'sodomy' came from or was derived or something?

Da. That is the crime by which a city was obliterated. Man, woman, and child.

Ass-sex, apparently, requires serious cleansing.