[Cabwi Desco] One Nation, Under Your Belief System

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[Cabwi Desco] One Nation, Under Your Belief System

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CLiCKiTY!!
Rocky Mountain News

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Bailey Pierce, 12, with her mother, Shelley, at their home in Wheat Ridge on Thursday. The Everitt Middle School seventh-grader says she and her classmates were shocked when they heard "one nation, under your belief system" Wednesday.
'Fix' in pledge raises concern

Jeffco school's counselor alters phrase 'under God'

By Jennifer Miller, Rocky Mountain News
April 22, 2005

JEFFERSON COUNTY - Seventh-grader Bailey Pierce, hand pressed against her heart, was reciting the Pledge of Allegiance when the voice over the intercom said something that stopped her cold.

"One nation, under 'your belief system.' "

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Bailey said that guidance counselor Margo Lucero substituted the phrase for "under God" while leading the morning pledge at Everitt Middle School on Wednesday.

Bailey said the incident shocked her and her classmates, many of whom stopped in mid-sentence and exchanged bewildered looks.

Principal Kathleen Norton was out of the building during the incident, but apologized Thursday to the student body and today will be sending letters of apology to parents.

"It was completely inappropriate," Jefferson County School District Superintendent Cindy Stevenson said. "We completely believe any teacher or student has the right to follow their individual conscience, however, when leading children, you adhere to the Pledge of Allegiance."

Lucero said she didn't intend to be offensive but rather wanted to mark the sixth anniversary of the Columbine High School slayings by evoking a sense of tolerance.

"Given the anniversary of Columbine, it was a spur-of-the- moment choice that I made, intended to acknowledge differences that lie in our society," Lucero said. "It's not a reflection of the district, and it was not my intention to offend anyone, rather to include (everyone)."

Stevenson would not discuss whether Lucero faces any discipline but said Norton was working with the counselor.

Some parents, including Christina Pulciani-Johnson, say Lucero should be disciplined.

"I think she should be reprimanded," said Pulciani- Johnson, who has a son in the seventh grade at Ever-itt.

Pulciano-Johnson said she spoke with Lucero, and the counselor told her that she believed in separation of church and school.

Still, "she had no right to change (the pledge)," Pulciani- Johnson said.

Stevenson said that Jefferson County schools follow state guidelines that give children the choice of saying the pledge. Most district schools broadcast the pledge over their intercom system along with announcements at the beginning of the day, she said.

At Everitt, the principal normally leads the pledge. If she's unavailable the secretary does it, and occasionally, students perform the duty.

"It was unusual," Stevenson said of what happened. "The counselor just said, 'I can do it,' and she did it."

Students were questioning whether what the counselor did was right.

"It kind of changed some kids' day," Bailey said.

"Some of them believe in God and thought it was wrong for her to change it."

Bailey's mother, Shelley, said, "The school intercom system is not the correct means for voicing one's personal political opinions."

The district agrees.

"If you have a problem with the pledge, that's your issue," Stevenson said. "Adults should not try to influence children with their personal conscience."

millerj@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-892-5425

Copyright 2005, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.
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Editor's note: Cabwi Desco protested his banning in Testing. Due to extenuating (that is, hilarious) circumstances, this thread was moved to the Hall of Shame for preservation. Short version: Cabwi claimed his mom hijacked his account. Link.
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Post by Castor Troy »

What the fuck? "One nation under your belief system?"

This has GOT to be the worst form of PC bullshit I've seen. It's so bad, it's damn near funny.
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Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

I don't see why they had to replace it with that. If they were having a problem with "Under God", then they just should have omitted it completely.
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Post by Firefox »

I omitted "under God" when I recited the Pledge, but still felt left out by its inclusion. I still can't understand why people would be up in arms if it was removed. Its absence doesn't harm anyone, meanwhile including it excludes people who either lack religious beliefs, or are polytheistic.
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Post by General Zod »

cripes. can't they just leave out any reference to religion whatsoever? why does it have to be one nation under -any- belief system? what's wrong with "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all?" it certainly sounds better than fucking "one nation, under your belief system".
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Post by Chmee »

Should have been, 'One nation, yadda yadda yadda, with liberty and ...'
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Post by Spacebeard »

Since "under God" wasn't in the original Pledge of Allegiance (source), the correct course of action is to restore it to its orginal pre-1954 text, not to add in extra bullshit.
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Post by Morilore »

You know, that's screwed up, but the objections cited in the article are dumb. "OMG d0nt ch4ng3 t3h p13dg3!!1!11" rather than "That is just too fucking akward."'
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Post by Spacebeard »


"Some of them believe in God and thought it was wrong for her to change it."

Bailey's mother, Shelley, said, "The school intercom system is not the correct means for voicing one's personal political opinions."
This was the most idiotic objection in the article if you ask me. The kids who "believe in God" were offended by language allowing for the possibility of other belief systems. Since "under God" is still included in "your belief system", they're offended because they want their belief system to be the only one recognized in the Pledge of Allegiance. Nice.

The counselor should have just recited the 1924 version of the Pledge, however. We don't need any bullshit in there to placate all religions, just like we don't need any bullshit in there to placate monotheistic religions.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

"Don't change the pledge!!@1" Eh, it's been changed already in 1954 as has been pointed out.

Just say "... one nation indivisible, etc."
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Post by Firefox »

Lord Zentei wrote:"Don't change the pledge!!@1" Eh, it's been changed already in 1954 as has been pointed out.

Just say "... one nation indivisible, etc."
Even more interesting since the inclusion of "under God" negates the word that follows.
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Post by Jim Raynor »

This is so fucking stupid, and it would have been much better if they had just omitted all references to religion, like the Pledge was originally. This kind of crap will just give the fundies more ammunition to bitch with.
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Post by Galvatron »

Firefox wrote:Just say "... one nation indivisible, etc."
Even more interesting since the inclusion of "under God" negates the word that follows.[/quote]
I always did find that ironic. What's more divisive than religion?
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Post by Cabwi Desco »

I've got to tell you, whenever I was in school and people refused to stand for the pledge, not for those two words, but for some other cockamamy reason, it pissed me off beyond belief and all I could help thinking was... traitors. You live here and if youre not going to stand for the pledge then you might as well leave.

Now this shit comes up and it makes my blood boil. I'm about the weakest believing christian in the state of virginia but this is just fucking ridiculous. Under Your Belief System? WTF kind of PC bull shit is that? do these people just think, 'oh these are kids, I better brainwash them to note hold no faith or just any faith whatsoever'. Yeah youre letting them make their own decisions but before age 18 they have no real decisions of their own, it's the parents job to teach them that.

Under God is two little words that apparently have about five billion tons of sulfur attatched to them.

My school, when this little issue became clear, made it a POINT to have the words 'Under God' in the pledge. In our area there was a commercial with the words 'under God', spoken without contempt.

Just because two words have the slightest bit of religious connotation people think, 'Oh noes they must be gotten rid of! opression opression!'

Theyre just words that every kid will learn in primary school here. Theres not much stopping that. And theres not much stopping it any time soon.
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Post by Castor Troy »

So wait, why change the pledge any more?

How is having "Under God" showing religious favoritism? How does it show the country promoting religion?
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Post by Cabwi Desco »

Castor Troy wrote:So wait, why change the pledge any more?

How is having "Under God" showing religious favoritism? How does it show the country promoting religion?
Exactly.
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Post by Galvatron »

I suppose you think "In God We Trust" shows no religious favoritism either?
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Post by Castor Troy »

Not really. How does it show religious favoritism? I'd say it'd show religious favoritism if it said "We believe in the Christian God", but a simple "God" can have many meanings, including non-religious ones.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Castor Troy wrote:So wait, why change the pledge any more?

How is having "Under God" showing religious favoritism? How does it show the country promoting religion?
It states the existance of God as a fact, a being which not everyone beleives in. It states that the nation is under this "God".
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Post by Cabwi Desco »

Yep.

Lemme guess, you think that 'Under God' and 'In God We Trust' should be removed?

Well in that case have fun recalling trillions upon trillions of pieces of currency just to get rid of four words. And about half as many posters and papers and commercial tapes and newspapers and jamming intercomms just to get rid of two words.
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Post by Castor Troy »

Lord Zentei wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:So wait, why change the pledge any more?

How is having "Under God" showing religious favoritism? How does it show the country promoting religion?
It states the existance of God as a fact, a being which not everyone beleives in. It states that the nation is under this "God".
It can be interpreted many ways. It doesn't have to mean that we, as a nation, serve a certain God.

As for stating the existance of God as fact, how is it stating it as fact? It's not intended it to be a factual statement, more like a thought to think on.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Cabwi Desco wrote:Yep.

Lemme guess, you think that 'Under God' and 'In God We Trust' should be removed?

Well in that case have fun recalling trillions upon trillions of pieces of currency just to get rid of four words. And about half as many posters and papers and commercial tapes and newspapers and jamming intercomms just to get rid of two words.
That has been done already. It used to say "E Pluribus Unum".
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Post by Castor Troy »

Lord Zentei wrote:
Cabwi Desco wrote:Yep.

Lemme guess, you think that 'Under God' and 'In God We Trust' should be removed?

Well in that case have fun recalling trillions upon trillions of pieces of currency just to get rid of four words. And about half as many posters and papers and commercial tapes and newspapers and jamming intercomms just to get rid of two words.
That has been done already. It used to say "E Pluribus Unum".
Actually, I'd support having "E Pluribus Unum", because that seems more fitting than "In God We Trust".
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Post by Cabwi Desco »

And it still does.

On the $1 bill, on the reverse where the big word ONE is in nice big boldface to the right of it is a eagle. Clutched in the easgles beak is a ribbon. On the ribbon is written E PLURIBUS UNUM.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Cabwi Desco wrote:And it still does.

On the $1 bill, on the reverse where the big word ONE is in nice big boldface to the right of it is a eagle. Clutched in the easgles beak is a ribbon. On the ribbon is written E PLURIBUS UNUM.
Yes? Are you attempting to make a point here? Your claim that it would be prohibitive to phase out the "In God We Trust" currency for "E Pluribus Unum" currency is nonsense.

The Fed would simply start printing the "E Pluribus Unum" phrase instead of the "In God We Trust" phrase and banks would be required to issue the new currency. The old currency would retain it's value, but would gradually be phased out. No biggie.
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