[mwm1331]

[mwm1331]

To those who say that breastfeeding is a natural and wholesome part of life I agree, but so is shitting, should that be done in the food court as well?
Some people seem to have moral objections to breast feeding in publc though I cant imagine what they are, some just find it disgusting, however there should be a way to satsfy both mothers sensibilities and those who object to it. As for why you wife should have to go to the rest room to breastfeed Darth Wong, she shouldn't, but isn't there also something to be said for at least being sensitive to others sensibilities?
And any woman changing her baby in the food court is wrong. Its unsanitary. Would you have the same support for a woman working in one of the food kosks in the food court changing her babies shitty diaper at the service counter? I for one see no difference between that and changing said daper on the table someone else will be using to eat.
I am neither for nor against public breast feeding however, I am definately against changing a shitty diaper in the food court.
As an aside why is a woman allowed to expose her breast n publc to feed but not for any other reason? Isn't that dscrimanation against non-nursing females?
If we as a society have determined that the female breast should not be exposed in public then the reason for sad exposure should not matter, if we allow it for feeding then we shold allow it period other wise it is discriminatory IMHO.

Editor's note: This one was tricky to split. Original thread here.

[Gandalf]

To those who say that breastfeeding is a natural and wholesome part of life I agree, but so is shitting, should that be done in the food court as well?

I believe there's a vague difference in hygeine.

Could you make the same argument for breast feeding in the loo?

[Edi]

I sense a massive smackdown coming your way, mwm1331. I'll juat take care of the preliminaries.

To those who say that breastfeeding is a natural and wholesome part of life I agree, but so is shitting, should that be done in the food court as well?

No, because there are significant hygiene issues involved in that.

Some people seem to have moral objections to breast feeding in publc though I cant imagine what they are, some just find it disgusting, however there should be a way to satsfy both mothers sensibilities and those who object to it.

Those who objkect to it can go fuck themselves. They have no intrinsic right to having public places regulated so that nothing there ever offends them. If they have a problem, they can simply not look. Or if it bothers them too much, they can just fucking go elsewhere.

As for why you wife should have to go to the rest room to breastfeed Darth Wong, she shouldn't, but isn't there also something to be said for at least being sensitive to others sensibilities?

See above. Breastfeeding is an inoffensive and really quite unobtrusive activity with an objective benefit, and anybody whose subjective fundamentalist sensibilities are offended by that can go fuck themselves.

I am neither for nor against public breast feeding however, I am definately against changing a shitty diaper in the food court.

Well, duh, so is everyoneelse here! Aren't you special?

As an aside why is a woman allowed to expose her breast n publc to feed but not for any other reason? Isn't that dscrimanation against non-nursing females?

No, because breastfeeding a baby has an objective benefit that is quite separate from the action of revealing a breast (which happens to be required.

If we as a society have determined that the female breast should not be exposed in public then the reason for sad exposure should not matter, if we allow it for feeding then we shold allow it period other wise it is discriminatory IMHO.

Your not so humble opinion is based on some pretty fucked up bullshit assumptions that are easily refuted. See above. And as it happens, society at large has not determined that the female breast should never be exposed in public.

Edi

[mwm1331]

I sense a massive smackdown coming your way, mwm1331. I'll juat take care of the preliminaries.

Well considering that in two pages I had not seen a single contrary opinion I felt it necessary to play devils advocate.
Or is are you one of those people who want to give lterary handjobs and only discuss with those who agree with you?

[mwm1331]

I sense a massive smackdown coming your way, mwm1331. I'll juat take care of the preliminaries.

Well considering that in two pages I had not seen a single contrary opinion I felt it necessary to play devils advocate.
Or is are you one of those people who want to give lterary handjobs and only discuss with those who agree with you?
And BTW cairbir I was merley pointing out that the "its totally natural" argument alone is not enough to justify allowing breastfeeding in public, many things which are quite natural are not allowed in public. ie sex, defecation etc.

[Cairber]

when did I make that argument? I never said it should be allowed just cuz its natural...

[Edi]

I sense a massive smackdown coming your way, mwm1331. I'll juat take care of the preliminaries.

Well considering that in two pages I had not seen a single contrary opinion I felt it necessary to play devils advocate.
Or is are you one of those people who want to give lterary handjobs and only discuss with those who agree with you?

You can fuck off, troll. It's a dumb idea to try and play devil's advocate when all of your arguments had already been refuted, but you insisted on posting them anyway. So you have nobody but yourself to blame if you get flamed to a cinder. Why don't you take a look in the Schiavo thread in N&P and certain threads in the HOS to see what happened to Assassin X after he made similar mistakes. My posting history is also full of flaming disagreements with various other posters on a variety of topics, so you can sod off, asshat.

Edi

[Edi]

And BTW cairbir I was merley pointing out that the "its totally natural" argument alone is not enough to justify allowing breastfeeding in public, many things which are quite natural are not allowed in public. ie sex, defecation etc.

Nice of you to ignore my point about the objective benefit that breastfeedinghas, namely feeding the baby. As well as the more or less (according to personal taste) subjective benefit of not having a crying baby around. Breastfeeding doesn't bother me at all, but I vastly prefer silent, content babies to crying, howling ones.

Public defecation has objective harm involved (sanitary issues), and sex in public has no objective benefit aside from the pleasure of the participants, but it tends to cause a lot of disturbance and can increase risk of accident (e.g. motorists who are distracted by a scene of somebody fucking by the side of the road will more easily make a possibly fatal mistake. Asshat.

Edi

[mwm1331]

You can fuck off, troll. It's a dumb idea to try and play devil's advocate when all of your arguments had already been refuted, but you insisted on posting them anyway. So you have nobody but yourself to blame if you get flamed to a cinder. Why don't you take a look in the Schiavo thread in N&P and certain threads in the HOS to see what happened to Assassin X after he made similar mistakes. My posting history is also full of flaming disagreements with various other posters on a variety of topics, so you can sod off, asshat.

Yeah the arguments I made were refuted prior to me posting them right?
Except that there was only one point of view expressed in this post and everyone other than myself agreed with it.
As for flaming flame away.
Ohhh no someone is gonna insult me.......... in writing!!!! ohhh the horror the horror!!!!
cairbair I agree that breastfeeding does have other advantages, however I was responding to Darth Wong who posted that it was natural without mentoning the other benefits.
I was simply attempting to point out that the argument "its natural" by itself is not enough to Justify public breastfeeding.
Persoanlly I agree with what you have sad cairbair but just cant stand to see a thread where only one side of an argument is agreed with, whenever do I always take the opposite side for the hell of it.

[Darth Wong]

Yeah the arguments I made were refuted prior to me posting them right?

No, they were stupid before they even germinated in your facsimile of Terri Schiavo's brain. At no point did anyone, myself or anyone else, say that "it's natural" is the only reason why breastfeeding should be allowed in public, fucktard. So your whole argument is a strawman.

Your only other argument is your claim that if breastfeeding should be allowed, then public baring of breasts should always be allowed. And guess what: that was already made irrelevant as well, also before you posted, because here in Ontario, public baring of womens' breasts is allowed since we are not fundie dinosaurs. Your argument presumes that people would react by saying "oh no, public baring of breasts should not be allowed" when in fact there is no logical reason whatsoever to have such a rule.

So that is two arguments you've made, one of which was indeed refuted before being posted and the other which is nothing more than a strawman. Congratulations; you've demonstrated yet again that you're an imbecile.

Except that there was only one point of view expressed in this post and everyone other than myself agreed with it.
As for flaming flame away.
Ohhh no someone is gonna insult me.......... in writing!!!! ohhh the horror the horror!!!!

It's not the insult; it's the fact that you're demonstrating the insult to be true. Perhaps you were actually hoping to make yourself look stupid, dishonest, and ignorant.

cairbair I agree that breastfeeding does have other advantages, however I was responding to Darth Wong who posted that it was natural without mentoning the other benefits.

Nice logic: if one mentions one positive aspect of breastfeeding, one is implicitly denying that it has other benefits?

I was simply attempting to point out that the argument "its natural" by itself is not enough to Justify public breastfeeding.

See above.

Persoanlly I agree with what you have sad cairbair but just cant stand to see a thread where only one side of an argument is agreed with, whenever do I always take the opposite side for the hell of it.

Playing devil's advocate is only acceptable when you do not demonstrate dishonesty or ignorance in the process. Or are those traits so ingrained in your personality that you just can't help it?

[mwm1331]

So in other words yo are advocating creating a precedent whereby the government can assign the label of "mental disease" to any philosophy they dslike?
Somehow that sounds like a bad idea to me.

[Darth Wong]

So in other words yo are advocating creating a precedent whereby the government can assign the label of "mental disease" to any philosophy they dslike?
Somehow that sounds like a bad idea to me.

Not as bad as locking women up for baring their breasts.

[Enforcer Talen]

So in other words yo are advocating creating a precedent whereby the government can assign the label of "mental disease" to any philosophy they dslike?
Somehow that sounds like a bad idea to me.

if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

fundies ignore science, ignore law, and persecute with great abandon. they qualify.

[mwm1331]

Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooooooo
Darth Wong thinks I'm an imbecile.
wahhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Rebecca did the same thing; for a brief time she used to go into the womens' bathroom to feed Matthew, and then she thought "why should I have to sit on a damned toilet in the womens' bathroom in order to feed my son?" and decided that she'd had enough of subjecting herself to the isolation treatment in order to do something that's perfectly wholesome and natural.

DW you mentioned it being natural and failed to mention any other justification.
Am I to assume you have reasons other than what you posted or to read what you post?
You failed to mention any other reason as justification in you post which was the one I was responding to. Dont blame me for your failure to list other reasons you support it.
Personally I have no problems with public breast feeding, as I mentined earler I am neither for nor aganst it. As I do not yet have children and It doesn't yet affect me I have no opinion on the matter

Your only other argument is your claim that if breastfeeding should be allowed, then public baring of breasts should always be allowed. And guess what: that was already made irrelevant as well, also before you posted, because here in Ontario, public baring of womens' breasts is allowed since we are not fundie dinosaurs. Your argument presumes that people would react by saying "oh no, public baring of breasts should not be allowed" when in fact there is no logical reason whatsoever to have such a rule.

No, my argument was based on the laws of the united states where, except in limited and special circumstances females are not allowed to be topless in publc. I did not assume or presume that people would react by saying "oh no, public baring of breasts should not be allowed" I simply pointed out that in the main it is not, and the apparent hypocracy in allowing one form of toplessness and not another.

[Lord Zentei]

So in other words yo are advocating creating a precedent whereby the government can assign the label of "mental disease" to any philosophy they dslike?
Somehow that sounds like a bad idea to me.

if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

fundies ignore science, ignore law, and persecute with great abandon. they qualify.

More importantly, they can be irratonal with conviction, and rationalize their unreason. It is not the philosophy that is the disease, the philosophy is only the symptom. As I pointed out earlier, Soviet Russia tried to ban religion, only to descend into pseudoscience instead.

Thus, I would prefer to see the nature-nurture thing cleared up more before anything draconian is attempted. Meanwhile, tax the churches.

[Lord Zentei]

Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooooooo
Darth Wong thinks I'm an imbecile.
wahhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

He is not alone in that.

Does it not occour to you that it requires justification to ban something as opposed to requiring justification for NOT banning it, you dolt?

[mwm1331]

Does it occur to you I never advocated banning it?

[Lord Zentei]

Does it occur to you I never advocated banning it?

Then what the hell are you trolling about, fool?

[mwm1331]

So in other words yo are advocating creating a precedent whereby the government can assign the label of "mental disease" to any philosophy they dslike?
Somehow that sounds like a bad idea to me.

Not as bad as locking women up for baring their breasts.

I suppose you can show me where I advocated such?

[mwm1331]

Does it occur to you I never advocated banning it?

Then what the hell are you trolling about, fool?

I aleady covered that.
I just cant stand to see only one position taken in a thread.
So whenever I do, I always try to challenge the postion whatever it may be.

[Darth Wong]

Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooooooo
Darth Wong thinks I'm an imbecile.
wahhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Everyone else does too, moron. It's because you are an imbecile. Your arguments demonstrate both dishonesty and ignorance.

Rebecca did the same thing; for a brief time she used to go into the womens' bathroom to feed Matthew, and then she thought "why should I have to sit on a damned toilet in the womens' bathroom in order to feed my son?" and decided that she'd had enough of subjecting herself to the isolation treatment in order to do something that's perfectly wholesome and natural.

DW you mentioned it being natural and failed to mention any other justification.

You DON'T NEED A JUSTIFICATION to allow it, fucktard. You need a justification to NOT allow it. Holy shit, are you ever stupid.

No, my argument was based on the laws of the united states

Totally irrelevant to any logic or morality discussion, fucktard. Appeal to Law does not count as an ethical argument.

[Lord Zentei]

Does it occur to you I never advocated banning it?

Then what the hell are you trolling about, fool?

I aleady covered that.
I just cant stand to see only one position taken in a thread.
So whenever I do, I always try to challenge the postion whatever it may be.

So: if someone were to start a therad complaining about, say, fundies protesting the teaching of the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun, you would take the fundie position?

[mwm1331]

Thats a different matter.
The fact tht the earth revolves around the sun is exactly that, a fact. Whether there is a ethical or moral justificaton for outlawing breastfeeding in public is subjective. There is no right or wrong beyond what society decides.
Ethics and morals, when religon is taken out of the equation are relative, we as a society decide what is ethical and or moral.

[Ghost Rider]

Ah...and a yapper derails shit because he doesn't like getting pointed out he's touting a strawman. Then appeals to law.

Just soving into the HoS since he's pretty much derailed it for a bizarre crusade to play a piss poor devil advocate.

[mwm1331]

Ethics and morals, when religon is taken out of the equation are relative, we as a society decide what is ethical and or moral.

Great, so why not change the societal stance towards baring women's breasts in public in general and breastfeeding in particular?

I would be all for that, I see nothing inherently harmful in an exposed female breast.