[Arcen]Just your standard AO sex-ed apologist

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[Arcen]Just your standard AO sex-ed apologist

Post by Arcen »

SirNitram wrote:
Joe wrote:I don't doubt that abstinence-only sex education probably can account for higher rates of teen pregnancy, but I do doubt that it alone can cause an outlier this large. There has to be some other reason.
You want the reasons? You won't like 'em....

1) Abstinence Only. They don't know to use protection.

2) Conservative parents(A guess from the articles linked to above). Preacher's Daughters may not be the literal word, but there's a reason they tend to go wild in their youth(And then get preggers or high or whatever, and FIND GOD.. And the cycle repeats).

3) Rural Ohio. Seriously. There is fuck all to do out there. So the only entertainment while you're rebelling is screwing like sinners.

What a bunch of PAP. Canton isn't "rural". Just the size of the school should indicate that. Comments about Abstinence Only teaching come from where exactly? And conservative parents also comes from where? This is just a knee jerk reaction.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Arcen wrote:What a bunch of PAP. Canton isn't "rural". Just the size of the school should indicate that.
Canton's population is only eighty thousand people. While that's not farmland, it's not a real city either, and I've lived in towns of that size. I've lived in towns with population ranging from six thousand to five million, and a town of eighty thousand people is going to have a mindset which is much closer to ruralism than it is to urbanism. In short, if there's an oasis of liberal thought in Ohio, it sure as hell isn't going to be in Canton.
Comments about Abstinence Only teaching come from where exactly? And conservative parents also comes from where? This is just a knee jerk reaction.
Bullshit. Ohio has one of the most conservative education boards in the country, with "intelligent design" creationism being taken seriously. It is hardly a "knee jerk reaction" to blame Ohio's conservatism for this. Moreover, Ohio is a user of "abstinence-only" sex education, you lying asshole:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... wsid=26079
Ohio Abstinence Programs Contain False Information About Abortion, Contraceptives, STDs, Report Says
19 Jun 2005

Abstinence-only sex education programs in Ohio might contain false or misleading information about abortion, contraceptives and sexually transmitted diseases, according to a report released on Monday by a... Case Western Reserve University researcher, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. The 29-page report -- which was written by Scott Frank, director of Case Western's division of public health -- says that some of the state's abstinence-only programs, which are offered in 85 of the state's 88 counties, confuse religion and science, perpetuate sexist stereotypes, do not provide guidance for gay adolescents and are not taught by trained health educators (McEnery, Cleveland Plain Dealer, 6/6). According to the report, Ohio received $8.1 million in federal funding for abstinence-only education in 2004, the fourth-highest amount of funding in the nation. In fiscal year 2005, the federal government will spend about $186 million on abstinence-only education nationwide -- double the amount spent in 2001 -- and will reach about eight million teens in about one-third of U.S. schools, according to the report (Wheeler, Akron Beacon Journal, 6/7).

Report Details

The report also found that some abstinence-only programs in the state:
  • Exaggerate the failure rates of condoms and do not include information on how to use a condom properly;
  • Blame contraceptives for poor mental health among young people and warn that sexual activity outside of marriage can have damaging psychological effects;
  • Suggest that hormonal contraceptives can increase a girl's chances of infertility later in life;
  • Urge teens to "follow God's plan for purity" and remain abstinent until marriage;
  • Contain inaccurate or misleading information about the transmission of STDs, including saying that HIV can be transmitted through tears and open-mouth kissing; and
  • Inaccurately describe HIV as a virus that remains undetected for six months to 10 years, when most antibodies are detectable within two to eight weeks following exposure.
Recommendations, Legislative Review

The report recommends that Ohio revise its abstinence-only programs to address more fully the needs of teenagers, including providing information on contraception and STD prevention for sexually active teens, the Plain Dealer reports (Cleveland Plain Dealer, 6/6). It also recommends having experts review the content of abstinence-only programs and requiring teachers to receive credentials in sexual and reproductive health, the Washington Times reports. In addition, Congress should broaden the definition of abstinence education in order to allow federal funds to meet a range of needs for teenagers, according to the report (Wetzstein, Washington Times, 6/7). The release of the report comes as Ohio legislators are reviewing how the state's annual $455,000 allocation for abstinence-only education is used, which Frank said was intentional. He said he wants to contribute a "voice of public health reason" to the debate and encourage lawmakers to examine the scientific accuracy and effectiveness of the programs (Cleveland Plain Dealer, 6/6). The state Department of Health currently is developing a way to evaluate abstinence education programs used in the state, according to department spokesperson Jay Carey (AP/Ohio News Network, 6/7).

Reaction

Valerie Huber, the state health department abstinence education program manager, said the report is unfair and inaccurate, adding that the state has experienced positive results from its programs. Bruce Cook -- who is president of Choosing the Best, which provides abstinence-only curricula to many schools in the state -- said his organization "is committed to being medically accurate and regularly updates its materials as new information becomes available" (AP/Ohio News Network, 6/7). However, Frank said that teens need information about preventing pregnancy and STDs, in addition to abstinence education, in order to protect themselves. "I've never heard of a student being safer with less information," he said (Akron Beacon Journal, 6/7). Bill Smith, vice president for public policy at the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, said the report "provides yet more evidence to Congress that the (Bush) administration is failing miserably on oversight of these (abstinence) programs" (Washington Times, 6/7).

State Health Department Funding

Opponents of abstinence-only sex education in Ohio last month asked the state health department to stop funding the programs until there is evidence that they are effective in reducing the state's rates of teen pregnancy or STDs. The AIDS Taskforce of Greater Cleveland -- Ohio's largest HIV/AIDS service provider -- and 34 other groups throughout the state sent letters to the health department and held public forums asking the department to withhold its annual allocation for abstinence education programs. Cleveland Mayor Jane Campbell and the Cleveland Department of Public Health also support the efforts to withhold state funding from abstinence-only sex education programs. The number of teen pregnancies in the state has declined over the past 10 to 15 years, and a 2001 CDC study found that more adolescents are delaying sexual intercourse and having fewer sexual partners compared with 10 years ago. However, rates of chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis and HIV have risen in recent years, according to state health department statistics (Kaiser Daily Reproductive Health Report, 5/24).
In conclusion, please take your apologist bullshit and shove it up your ass.
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Post by SirNitram »

Arcen wrote:What a bunch of PAP. Canton isn't "rural". Just the size of the school should indicate that.


The size of the school indicates it's not rural? Hello, McFly, there's only five hundred females there, leading to a likely population of a thousand students. THat's small.
Comments about Abstinence Only teaching come from where exactly?


It's objective fact that Canton uses AO sex ed. Of course, since you're a knee-jerking conservative, you might be too fucking stupid to realize that AO increases the amount of teen pregnancies.

Link

link

Of course, you'll ignore these.
And conservative parents also comes from where?


Reading the aforementioned linked articles in this thread shows the parents are very conservative. But, being the knee-jerker you are, you actually mean 'How DARE you accuse Conservatives of not being perfect.'. In response, I issue: Fuck you. ANyone with a brain knows the tendency of the Preacher's Son to get wild, and anyone with a brain can realize that it applies to more than just preacher's.
This is just a knee jerk reaction.
Yes, your post was. Before you post again, gather more than just your outrage. Like evidence and arguments.
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Post by Arcen »

Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Ohio has one of the most conservative education boards in the country, with "intelligent design" creationism being taken seriously. It is hardly a "knee jerk reaction" to blame Ohio's conservatism for this. Moreover, Ohio is a user of "abstinence-only" sex education, you lying asshole:

In conclusion, please take your apologist bullshit and shove it up your ass.
Perfect example of some one who knows nothing concerning US education. Just because Ohio uses Abstinence-Only doesn't mean this school does moron. School districts set up their own policies and these very drastically from town to town. While it is possible that this school does, it isn't pointed out anywhere. Funny, that it isn't considering the where the article comes from. The previous comment about rural was just that and Canton is far from rural with schools of over 1000 students.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Arcen wrote:Perfect example of some one who knows nothing concerning US education. Just because Ohio uses Abstinence-Only doesn't mean this school does moron.
85 of 88 districts is a 92% chance, you blithering idiot. That puts the burden of proof on YOU to show that it doesn't. And a town of eighty thousand people is not likely to be the state's leading light of liberalism, shithead.
School districts set up their own policies and these very drastically from town to town. While it is possible that this school does, it isn't pointed out anywhere. Funny, that it isn't considering the where the article comes from.
So? Given the small size of the town, the burden of proof is on YOU to show that it deviates liberally from the norm in Ohio.
The previous comment about rural was just that and Canton is far from rural with schools of over 1000 students.
Bullshit. My wife came from a rural town and it had a high school with 1000 students. The size of the school proves nothing. In fact, I already addressed your idiotic claims about Canton having an urban rather than rural culture, and you simply ignored it.

I have no patience for people who ignore points they can't handle and still keep spewing attitude. You're a lying asshole and you have one hour to either address this point or concede it.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2005-08-24 12:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Arcen »

SirNitram wrote:

The size of the school indicates it's not rural? Hello, McFly, there's only five hundred females there, leading to a likely population of a thousand students. THat's small.



It's objective fact that Canton uses AO sex ed. Of course, since you're a knee-jerking conservative, you might be too fucking stupid to realize that AO increases the amount of teen pregnancies.
I came from a class size of less than 60 which was one of the largest. Over 1000 is a large school. Secondly, What objective fact? While it may use abstinence only programs, I haven't found anything you posted to verify this. I'm not looking for a fight on the merits of such programs, just pointing out the baseless assumptions you and others have made.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Arcen wrote:I came from a class size of less than 60 which was one of the largest. Over 1000 is a large school.
Which, for the THIRD FUCKING TIME, does not disprove the claim that a podunk town of 80,000 people in an intelligent design believing, abstinence-only teaching state is rural, you idiot.
Secondly, What objective fact? While it may use abstinence only programs, I haven't found anything you posted to verify this. I'm not looking for a fight on the merits of such programs, just pointing out the baseless assumptions you and others have made.
In other words, you are being a sophistic asshole and demanding absolute proof because a 92% probability isn't enough for you to take the burden of proof. Eat my shit, troll.
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Post by SirNitram »

Arcen wrote:I came from a class size of less than 60 which was one of the largest. Over 1000 is a large school.


For who, some bumfuck kid whose never been in a city of a few million? Fuck off child. Your declarations don't mean shit. All evidence, including my own forays through Ohio, points to my conclusion. You just have whining.
Secondly, What objective fact?


You know, all that shit you keep ignoring.
While it may use abstinence only programs, I haven't found anything you posted to verify this.


That's because you're a lying asshat who ignores the majority of the posts.

Link

Pretty clearly shows Canton's opinions, don't it? As Mike said, 90+% chance. Burden of proof's on you, fuckstain.
I'm not looking for a fight on the merits of such programs, just pointing out the baseless assumptions you and others have made.
Wrong, kid. You knee-jerked a post out without any supporting your bullshit, and had the gaul to claim it's us who are knee-jerk apologists. Fuck off until you can debate.
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Post by Arcen »

Point that your definition of large school and mine differ, regardless of where your wife went to school. As for the burden of proof you are making claims NOT ME. All I pointed out was it hasn't been provided and while you did anecdotal evidence I find this weak considering the source. I didn't argue about the veracity, or viability of any program just the assumtions being made.
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Post by SirNitram »

Arcen wrote:Point that your definition of large school and mine differ, regardless of where your wife went to school. As for the burden of proof you are making claims NOT ME. All I pointed out was it hasn't been provided and while you did anecdotal evidence I find this weak considering the source. I didn't argue about the veracity, or viability of any program just the assumtions being made.
Okay, stop posting and don't come back until you learn what 'anecdotal' actually means.
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Post by Darth Wong »

More enlightenment for the idiot who accuses others of "assumptions" without providing a shred of evidence for his own case:

http://www.cityofcanton.com/citygov/ecd ... ofile.html

Canton's population is 80,000 and it's the seat for Stark County, which has a total population is less than 400,000. That's not an urban profile. Stark County has a land area of 576 square miles, or 1474.56 square km. A population of 400,000 means that the average population density is 271 people per square kilometre. This is only "urban" if you use cheeseball definitions like the old pre-1950 census definition where any incorporated city over 2500 population was considered "urban". It certainly doesn't mean this areais going to have anything near what we consider to be an urban mindset.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Arcen wrote:Point that your definition of large school and mine differ, regardless of where your wife went to school. As for the burden of proof you are making claims NOT ME.
And I've produced the evidence, you asshole. You haven't produced jack shit except to claim that a 92% probability means nothing, which won't fool anyone.
All I pointed out was it hasn't been provided and while you did anecdotal evidence I find this weak considering the source. I didn't argue about the veracity, or viability of any program just the assumtions being made.
Since when is a 92% probability across the entire state nothing more than "anecdotal evidence", you worthless little asshole? And YOU made the claim that a 1000-person school means it must be urban; a claim which has been refuted and which you refuse to either properly defend or concede. 40 minutes left.
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Post by Arcen »

Here is a link for all those on this board who believe that Canton is a Bastion of Conservatives.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/ ... html#39151

Note please that Kerry won this county. It isn't as conservative as you want it to be.
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Post by The Spartan »

Take a closer look at that link. It shows Kerry with 95337 votes and Bush with 92215. With 100% precinct reporting. And somehow Bush won this county?
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Post by RedImperator »

The size of the school is meaningless unless it's a huge or tiny number. Philadelphia general high schools have between 1000 and 2000 students enrolled. My high school in the suburbs had 1200. A consolidated high school deep in the exurbs that draws from a dozen different communities could easily have 1000 students. It's just a matter of how district lines are drawn.

Canton would qualify as a small city just going by the numbers, but that could be misleading. It could be a dense urban knot of 80,000 people (Ohio's old industrial towns are like that), or it could be 80,000 people spread throughout a geographically large city limit at suburban or lower densities. BOTH types of cities would tend to have high teen pregnancy rates--inner city and rural schools have the highest teenage pregnancy rates relative to their state average regardless of sex ed cirriculum used, though of course AO education will exacerbate the problem.
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Post by The Spartan »

Ignore my last post. I didn't pay attention nearly enough as I needed to.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Arcen wrote:Here is a link for all those on this board who believe that Canton is a Bastion of Conservatives.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/ ... html#39151

Note please that Kerry won this county. It isn't as conservative as you want it to be.
Don't be an idiot. Ohio has been massively hit by layoffs and the industrial downturn of exported manufacturing jobs. Kerry did far, far better because of outsourcing politics than he would have on social issues alone. And you STILL have yet to address the fact that your "1000 person school = urban" claim is crap, not to mention my evidence regarding the population density of Stark County. 25 minutes left.
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Post by Plekhanov »

Canton City Schools Board of Education wrote:FAMILY LIFE EDUCATION/SEX EDUCATION

The Board believes that the purpose of family life and sex education is to help students acquire factual knowledge, attitudes and values which result in behavior which contributes to the wellbeing of the individual, the family and society.

Helping students attain a mature and responsible attitude toward human sexuality is a continuous task of every generation. Parents have the primary responsibility to assist their children in developing moral values. The schools should support and supplement parents’ efforts in these areas by offering students factual information and opportunities to discuss concerns, issues and attitudes.

In addition to the requirements listed below, the policies and regulations concerning the approval of new curriculum content, units and materials apply to any course(s) dealing with family life and sex education.

1. Instructional materials to be used in family life/sex education are available for review by parents during school hours.

2. If, after review of materials used and a conference with the instructor and principal, aparent requests that his/her child not participate in a given aspect of the course, an alternate educational assignment is arranged for that student with the approval of the principal.

3. Teachers who provide age-appropriate instruction in family life/sex education have professional preparation in the subject area. The instructional materials of outside consultants need approval from teachers and administrators before their presentation to students.

4. Instruction in sex education emphasizes the health benefits of abstinence.

[Adoption date: May 17, 2004]

LEGAL REFS.: The Elementary and Secondary Education Act; 20 USC 1221 et seq.
ORC 3313.60
OAC 3301-35-04

CROSS REF.: IGAE, Health Education

THIS IS A REQUIRED POLICY
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Post by Darth Wong »

Looks like the probability of Canton County using an AO sex-ed program just went up from 92% to 100%. And still I see no concession from Arcen. If I don't see something in the next 15 minutes he's fucking history.
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Post by The Spartan »

To make up for my brain fart let me point out something from here in Texas:

I had a friend who lived in Magnolia. Extremely rural. Their main street was like a modern version of the old main streets you see in westerns. It was *nothing* but farm kids. Poor whites and blacks with some Hispanics thrown in. Very rural. His high school had about 1500 kids, give or take as I recall.

In the area I used to hunt in, the "town" consisted of an intersection with a flashing stop light, a post office and a volunteer fire house with 2 engines, both designed to knock down fence posts so they could get through fields. They also had a gas station that was an old farmhouse with gas pumps added out front. Their school was small enough that K-12 were taught in the same building. Very rural.

More rural than where my friend went to school. But this does not negate that where he lived was indeed a rural area. School size is almost if not totally meaningless.

Take Odessa. This place is so rural they were trying to have a Bible class added to the curriculum and were succeeding! I'm not sure what the student body size was but they had enough students to be a 5A school. Competes at my own high schools level(though in a far removed district) and my high school was in a highly suburbanized area with more than 3500 students in all, when I graduated. There were 750 Seniors and we were the "small" class.

The size of the school is irrelevant when considering the "ruralism" of a particular area.
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Post by Darth Wong »

I also liked the way he said "1000 person high school = urban" and when I pointed out an example of a 1000 person high school in a rural area, thus disproving his rule, he dismissed it as "anecdotal evidence". He's obviously so fucking stupid he doesn't even understand when and where anecdotal evidence can be used, and he obviously thinks that a single contradictory example cannot be used to disprove a claim of deductive reasoning from fact.
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Post by SirNitram »

See, I've never seen a single, 1000 person school in an urban or even suburban area. Where I grew up was in the Conneticut Sprawl out of New York City, there were two High Schools for the city.. ANd both were more than a thousand folks apeice. The only time I saw a school approaching this size was the tiny private school I went to for my LD.
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Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Arcen
Youngling
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Joined: 2005-06-26 10:18am
Location: Trapped in a sea of sand

Post by Arcen »

Thank you Nitram for the previous post. I appreciate the information. I was searching for it. I agree that Canton is an AO district. I still don't understand the vemonous attacks but to each his own.
Serving in eternity waiting for my time to expire.
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The Kernel
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Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
Location: Kweh?!

Post by The Kernel »

This is all pretty much academic, I checked up on Canton using Google Maps Sat images and the center of town is most definitely rural. I can't post a screenshot (for some reason the PrintScreens keep getting corrupted) but you can all go check yourselves to see what I mean.
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SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
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Post by SirNitram »

Arcen wrote:Thank you Nitram for the previous post. I appreciate the information. I was searching for it. I agree that Canton is an AO district. I still don't understand the vemonous attacks but to each his own.
The 'venomous attacks'? Well, if you mean me pointing out the rural, conservative nature of the town is an explanation for the current situation, that's not a 'venomous attack', that's stacking evidence up and reaching the blatantly obvious conclusion.

If you're talking about me attacking you, don't be a dumbshit who needs everything repeated thrice, and you won't be attacked. And I'd concede to Mike or put up some form of evidence, he's not pulling your leg about the banning.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
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