Strategic Fantasy Crossover RPG

[Akhlut]

What about fortifications? Are they just going to be part and parcel of the upgrading for counties, at least initially? And how will they operate? Will they just operate like adding additional points to the army?

As for ships, carracks and caravels were available in the middle ages. Someone who knows more about them than me can answer more about them.

[The Romulan Republic]

I have a fair idea of what a caravel is capable of (those were the ships the likes of Columbus and Drake used, right?)

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

I think everyone should start with some castles around their territory.. Not only were they fortifications, but also tax collecting places. So, maybe three keeps per player.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think everyone should start with some castles around their territory.. Not only were they fortifications, but also tax collecting places. So, maybe three keeps per player.

Three big Fortresses maybe. Smaller castles were quite common during the Middle Ages.

[Setzer]

They weren't really all that different. It's only during the Renaissance and Enlightenment that you got the big ocean crossing sailing ships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromon

Here's an example of one.

[The Romulan Republic]

Regarding fortresses, I'm thinking we should get one small castle or fortified manor per county, and three big fortresses total.

[Setzer]

Where fortresses are concerned, I think they should allow a player to maintain control of a county, even if an enemy army occupies it. The idea is, the invader holds the field, but they have to take time reducing the fortifications. It's not really practical to have an entire county designated as a fortress, but we can mark which ones have fortresses in them.

[Darkevilme]

If a boat costs a value equal to how many troops it can carry then how much would airships cost? more presumeably as they can move anywhere.

Also i think that it should be a 1/5 ratio if we bother to have a rule for how many ships you need to provide supplies to an army. So a 100 point longboat can support 500 points of troops marching along the shore but can only carry 100 troops at a time. This does get weird though as it means more valuable troops are somehow heavier or larger, and i dunno how it deals with hero units and other extremely pricey individuals. Should a 100 point battlemage require an entire boat to himself for strange reasons?

And yes i'm all for there being some castles. Until its taken the attackers can't gain income from that province, though contested provinces shouldnt produce income due to roving forage bands for the attacking army and the defenders burning crops to deny them to the enemy. And three sounds like a good number of grand strongholds to have. Though other questions this brings up is.

how many castles should people have? Other than keeping the enemy from taking territories quickly what do they?

How much is a castle worth in battle?
How much is a grand stronghold worth in battle?

[Setzer]

If a boat costs a value equal to how many troops it can carry then how much would airships cost? more presumeably as they can move anywhere.

Also i think that it should be a 1/5 ratio if we bother to have a rule for how many ships you need to provide supplies to an army. So a 100 point longboat can support 500 points of troops marching along the shore but can only carry 100 troops at a time. This does get weird though as it means more valuable troops are somehow heavier or larger, and i dunno how it deals with hero units and other extremely pricey individuals. Should a 100 point battlemage require an entire boat to himself for strange reasons?

When it comes to boats, screw point based cargo. I mentioned some types of ships, and how many they could carry. Let's just go with that. A ship that can carry 100 soldiers can carry 100 soldiers, regardless of type. I don't want thing to be too simplistic, but if we insist on using a points setup for every little thing, we're going to be flipping between reference listings every couple of minutes. If I wanted that, I'd just redo my taxes.

As for logistics, I think we should keep things simple. One ship for every hundred men is the default, and double that amount for specialized transport ships. So a force of 10,000 men overseas requires 100 ships, or 50 transport ships. I'm not sure what the numbers for airships should be. How about, they can supply double the amount (50 airships per 100 men, and 25 airships per hundred for dedicated transports) this represents their speed advantage over sea or land transport. However, an airship based logistics train can't supply heavy equipment like armored cavalry or siege engines? That way, you can't just flatten people with airships by airlifting in knights and trebuchets.

As for support costs, the Eastern Roman Empire 468 AD expedition against the Vandals cost 64,000 pounds of gold. There were 1113 ships and 100 men per ship, according to Cedrenus. That works out to 4,608,000 solidii in total, about 41.4 solidi per man. How are we handling money in this game? Why not have each province give the player an annual income? After all, I think there are some elements we still haven't ripped off from the Total War series.

Pounds of gold can be the universally accepted currency, used for hiring mercenaries, paying reparations, ransoms, or bribes. Points can be converted into gold, or gold into points. That way, there's a money aspect to maintaining an army, but you don't have to worry about funding every little thing.

And yes i'm all for there being some castles. Until its taken the attackers can't gain income from that province, though contested provinces shouldnt produce income due to roving forage bands for the attacking army and the defenders burning crops to deny them to the enemy. And three sounds like a good number of grand strongholds to have. Though other questions this brings up is.

how many castles should people have? Other than keeping the enemy from taking territories quickly what do they?

How much is a castle worth in battle?
How much is a grand stronghold worth in battle?

I have the idea of varying levels of fortification, and each one reduces the attacking force by a certain amount, value wise.
So a 15000 point army would lose ten percent attacking a level 1 fortification. Forts go all the way up to level 6, which would reduce a 15000 point army to 9000 points in value.

You'd have to assemble a truly massive force to take down the biggest fortresses. Of course, level 6 fortresses are things like Minas Tirith, and should far too expensive to build everywhere. It should cost a certain amount to build a castle in a territory, with each new level costing double the one before it.

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

I think all but the most specialized of player factions should be VERY wealthy compared to NPC nations at first, so to differentiate the player factions from NPCs as paragons of civilization.

[Setzer]

I agree. We would have notions of commerce that have evolved beyond "find slaves to work in the gold mines. Grab cattle from the neighbor's herd. Grab women from the tribe over the hill." Now we just have to figure out how much things cost.
Perhaps a point equals five pounds of gold. That would make the Vandal expedition a 12800 point army. It was a massive force for the time, and 100,000 men is still a significant force today. Losing it was a massive blow to the Eastern Roman Empire, as it cost more then the Empire's entire yearly income.

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

How much should an alchemist's tower cost? Lets say it gives out additional points per day at a low number. One could add its bonuses to either building integrity or for commerce... maybe even food or medicine.

[Setzer]

Yes, we can have a number of buildings one can make to enhance a province. Costs a lot of points at first, but pays off in the long run. Some would generate extra points (or gold that can be exchanged for points) some would actually consume points but provide other bonuses.

[Darkevilme]

Okay i think i covered this but i'll put up what rules i've suggested so far and stuff.

Provinces produce A*their level in income each year provided they're. This is in equivalent to points, so 100 income is the same as 100 initial points and can be quantified as gold if you like. And at the ratio of 5 pounds of gold to a point if you wish.

Armies require their value/5 in gold income each year to represent feeding, maintenance, paying them and stuff.

Anything left after maintenance for stuff is deducted can be used to do things like build castles, raise new armies, pay mercenaries, tribute your aggressive neighbours or be horded in vaults and made into gold coin thrones by the terminally insane.

Upgrading a province should be very expensive but yeah should be doable. A province only really has two values though, its level of income and the level of the castle if it has any. Anything else is best left as pure rp.

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

Should their be rules on summoning?

[Darkevilme]

If you summon something longterm its production and you spend gold from your income on it.
If you summon something just for a battle its epic magic and you spend your casting pool points on it.

[Setzer]

Okay i think i covered this but i'll put up what rules i've suggested so far and stuff.

Provinces produce A*their level in income each year provided they're.

Um... what?

This is in equivalent to points, so 100 income is the same as 100 initial points and can be quantified as gold if you like. And at the ratio of 5 pounds of gold to a point if you wish.

Armies require their value/5 in gold income each year to represent feeding, maintenance, paying them and stuff.

Anything left after maintenance for stuff is deducted can be used to do things like build castles, raise new armies, pay mercenaries, tribute your aggressive neighbours or be horded in vaults and made into gold coin thrones by the terminally insane.

Upgrading a province should be very expensive but yeah should be doable. A province only really has two values though, its level of income and the level of the castle if it has any. Anything else is best left as pure rp.

Perhaps we should have different types of income. We could have gold from all provinces, food from others, and specialized trade goods from certain provinces. Trade goods could be like in Civ4, giving special bonuses. For example, an iron mine would reduce points costs for armored units by a certain amount, horses would make it cheaper to raise cavalry, copper and tin and other resources would stack bonuses, so a great trading nation could punch above its weight if it has widespread trading ties.

As for food, you'd need a certain amount every year to feed your people. The rest could be sold or stockpiled in castles in case of sieges.

[Darkevilme]

Okay, A=200 but can be changed, sorry for confusing. At least if every province is level 1. that adds up to 40*1*200=8000 before maintenance is deducted which sounds like a good number to me. And i dont want to do accountancy for too many resources. Hence me unifying food, gold and other production under the word income and in points to keep it universal. Trading ties and special resources i think we can keep rp side though.

[Setzer]

Alright then. 8000 points is quite sufficient for starting, I think.



And here's the latest map. Norseman's Sarmatian Dominatrixes are in black. Anyone else want their lands marked, lemme know.

[Darkevilme]

That's 8000 annual income.
You have 25,000 initial points.
Your army will deduct a fifth of its value from your yearly income.
So 25,000 points of army takes 5000 points of income to maintain leaving 3000 behind.

The questions now are.

How much should fortifications cost for level 1?
Should they be charged to the initial points or should a certain number be free?
Should the initial points be increased to reflect the fact we're buying fortresses now with it?
Heroes cost how much?

[Setzer]

That's 8000 annual income.
You have 25,000 initial points.
Your army will deduct a fifth of its value from your yearly income.
So 25,000 points of army takes 5000 points of income to maintain leaving 3000 behind.

Ah, my mistake

The questions now are.
How much should fortifications cost for level 1?

2,500 points. Level two is 5,000 points, level three, 10,000, and so on to level 6. Each one is double the cost of the one before it. That way, even big powerful factions won't want to build too many.

Should they be charged to the initial points or should a certain number be free?

I think three free levels of fortification at the start will be enough to prevent the equivalent of rushing. That's three castles that can reduce a force by ten percent, or one that can reduce an attacker by 30%.

I'll think of the rest of this later.

[Karmic Knight]

Does anyone mind if I play?

If not, I would like to control as much of the Seine River Basin that is available with 40 provinces.

[Darkevilme]

not at all. Welcome aboard Karmic Knight.

[Akhlut]

I foresee potential Sarmatian/Crimean hostilities unless there is, ahem, diplomacy, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.


Anyway, I agree with Darkevil about resources, unless we do things super-simplified, with only metal, horses, and timber. But, even then, I think that's stretching it. I think just going with straight income should be good enough. Even if, say, Sarmatia is steppe devoid of trees, Norseman can RP it that he is exacting tribute from some nearby tribes that have timber. Plus, most of our territories are spread out enough that most of us will have a little bit of everything, even if it is just us turning a few of our provinces into hills laden with iron ore and covered in trees, and if we happen to get crushed into a few provinces, then our lower incomes will reflect our sudden lack of the resources we once depended on.

How will trade be conveyed, though? I'm just wondering since a lot of my backstory relies on trade and my capital being a mighty seaport. And if we're going to have such a simplified economy, that makes it hard to trade since, essentially, it'd things of equal value going to and fro (since no one is going to use 50 income to buy 40 income from someone else). Is it simply going to be reflected in the advancement of a province, with trade cities being of higher value on the income generation thing? Like, the equivalent of Venice or Constantinople is going to a level 6 city earning 300 gold a turn or whatever?

Also: when/where are we going to put our backstories up?

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

Well, one in this game could slowly develop a modern city population wise, and with magical contraptions they can even develop a good standard of living. However it would take centuries.