Bullshit. You're building Burkes, and those cost $2 billion each.
No they don't they cost like 1.3 billion each and back around 2000 it was closer to 950 million. Filling the ship with missiles and training the crew however might push all up costs towards 2 billion. The new Burkes being considered (the Navy isn't sure it will kill DDG-1000 anymore) are supposed to have a bunch of new combat systems and other electronics so they may prove more expensive, but thats all pretty undefined.
Well, taking a look at different numbers from GS:
As of December 31, 2001, DDG 51 Destroyer program costs increased $10,219.1 million (+18.3%) from $55,807.6 million to $66,026.7 million, due primarily to the quantity increase of 6 ships from 58 to 64 ships (+$5,853.5 million), post delivery and outfitting requirements for the 6 additional ships (+$378.2 million), and revised estimates resulting from a change in the estimating assumptions with respect to the cost-quantity relationship for the 6 additional ships (+$1,507.7 million). There were also increases for the addition of the Remote Minehunting System (+$154.3 million); additional funds for previously unfunded requirements (+$579.4 million); revised cost estimates for ship construction, Government Furnished Equipment (GFE), and outfitting and post delivery (+$525.4 million); and the application of revised escalation rates (+$433.2 million).
We can derive a cost of $1.3 billion each for the 6 ships mentioned (DDG107-112) from the above numbers. Apparently the production restart would be expensive. $1.2-1.5 billion sounds reasonable, maybe a bit less if you cut out as much as your saying you will. Max range isn't going to change the cost significantly though, because steel is cheap.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Steel is cheap; redoing hull lines and shifting machinery spaces is not. Some extension in range could be gained from lengthening the ship but it’s not going to be an enormous increase before you start running into those problems. I’m not sure if the length of Burke is already high enough that lengthening the ship can not improve economy and speed or if gains can still be made.
Another way to get more range of the ships would be to give them the RACER auxiliary steam turbine system (running off the gas turbine exhaust) they were supposed to have had in the first place. That system was ultimately deleted because of reliability concerns (and reliability was the main reason for shifting from more economic steam to gas turbines in the first place) but the technology has been vastly refined in the near 20 years since the decision was made. Going to an electrical power train would also be a big boost, and was intended for Flight III, but that would be a much more expensive change and it would add a lot of extra weight.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
The Standard doesn't do more range than the Burke, it does less. These ships are primarily intended to go 'round our little continent, not to ply the seven seas like the Burke Swarm of Doom. (Unless this is more trouble than it's worth, in which case we might opt to keep the range of the Burke intact.)
Anyway, thanks Beowulf and Skimmer for the input, it's been quite useful and enlightening. I've modified the sheet on the Standard to reflect the accurate cost of the ship.
PS: FTO guys, that means we're opening shop! Get your orders in, first one to order gets a discount!
PPS: Once the FTO's got its share of orders, we'll gladly do business with other people as well. Anyone looking for a proper destroyer that isn't too expensive? We'll paint it any colour you like!
SiegeTank wrote:PS: FTO guys, that means we're opening shop! Get your orders in, first one to order gets a discount!
Set me down for 3 over three years starting in 2011. About 1.5billion per, right? And operations are compatible with normal burkes?
SiegeTank wrote:PPS: Once the FTO's got its share of orders, we'll gladly do business with other people as well. Anyone looking for a proper destroyer that isn't too expensive? We'll paint it any colour you like!
So long as its Beige.
This is an empty country and I am it's king, and I should not be allowed to touch anything.
I'll take seven of our beautiful new Standards, as soon as they roll of the assembly line. After the Vineyards gets theirs, of course.
Conversion Table:
2000 Mockingbirds = 2 Kilomockingbirds
Basic Unit of Laryngitis = 1 Hoarsepower
453.6 Graham Crackers = 1 Pound Cake
1 Kilogram of Falling Figs - 1 Fig Newton
Time Between Slipping on a Banana Peel and Smacking the Pavement = 1 Bananosecond
Half of a Large Intestine = 1 Semicolon
Well I'm not sure exactly how many of these ships I'll need , so put Indhopal down for six Standards for now. Indhopal is much more interested in Submarines really.
You FTO guys are going to take forever to finish all those orders.
On the other hand, I offer the KDX-III destroyer, which weighs a 1000 tonnes or so more, and it is every much as capable as the one you guys are proposing.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:You FTO guys are going to take forever to finish all those orders.
On the other hand, I offer the KDX-III destroyer, which weighs a 1000 tonnes or so more, and it is every much as capable as the one you guys are proposing.
Ah, but then we lose the pleasure of producing our own navy! How would we feel if, for example, the Byzantine Empire decided to set it's imperialistic sights on Frequesque, and the SECRET CODES OF DOOM you put in our ships destroyed all hope of resistance? Horrible, is how we'd feel. HORRIBLE! //End Paranoid Rant
Conversion Table:
2000 Mockingbirds = 2 Kilomockingbirds
Basic Unit of Laryngitis = 1 Hoarsepower
453.6 Graham Crackers = 1 Pound Cake
1 Kilogram of Falling Figs - 1 Fig Newton
Time Between Slipping on a Banana Peel and Smacking the Pavement = 1 Bananosecond
Half of a Large Intestine = 1 Semicolon
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:You FTO guys are going to take forever to finish all those orders.
On the other hand, I offer the KDX-III destroyer, which weighs a 1000 tonnes or so more, and it is every much as capable as the one you guys are proposing.
Ah, but then we lose the pleasure of producing our own navy! How would we feel if, for example, the Byzantine Empire decided to set it's imperialistic sights on Frequesque, and the SECRET CODES OF DOOM you put in our ships destroyed all hope of resistance? Horrible, is how we'd feel. HORRIBLE! //End Paranoid Rant
It also establishes an FTO brand that will slowly seep into products made in Frequesue.
Average Consumer: 'Hey, you know, I am pissed at having to wait for X product'
Other Consumer: 'Don't fret, it is coming from the FTO, so you know X will work, even if it takes time for them to build it.'
This is an empty country and I am it's king, and I should not be allowed to touch anything.
2000 Mockingbirds = 2 Kilomockingbirds
Basic Unit of Laryngitis = 1 Hoarsepower
453.6 Graham Crackers = 1 Pound Cake
1 Kilogram of Falling Figs - 1 Fig Newton
Time Between Slipping on a Banana Peel and Smacking the Pavement = 1 Bananosecond
Half of a Large Intestine = 1 Semicolon
Yeah, but the costs of setup, to get the shipyards ready, to set up the relevant logistics, plus the fact you don't have the shipyard capacity to produce too many, means you are going to face lots of extra costs in addition to the price of materials and construction.
Well have it your way, as you won't be building more than 2 a year. It;s not like I'm not willing to sell you the codes and software and everything else as part of the package.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Yeah, but the costs of setup, to get the shipyards ready, to set up the relevant logistics, plus the fact you don't have the shipyard capacity to produce too many, means you are going to face lots of extra costs in addition to the price of materials and construction.
Well have it your way, as you won't be building more than 2 a year. It;s not like I'm not willing to sell you the codes and software and everything else as part of the package.
Practically no one buys big item defense products from other nations when they can produce it locally. Even if it might cost more. The FTO might want to produce locally just to prove that we can. Same thing with our rocket program.
Raj Ahten wrote:Practically no one buys big item defense products from other nations when they can produce it locally. Even if it might cost more. The FTO might want to produce locally just to prove that we can. Same thing with our rocket program.
Last I checked, people still buy submarines, and frigates from abroad. That or they license produce the equipment in general, if they have the ability to do so.
Sure you can do your own rocket program, with additional costs attached. Brazil had one, though the rockets were just plain ballistic ones.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Yeah, but the costs of setup, to get the shipyards ready, to set up the relevant logistics, plus the fact you don't have the shipyard capacity to produce too many, means you are going to face lots of extra costs in addition to the price of materials and construction.
Well have it your way, as you won't be building more than 2 a year. It;s not like I'm not willing to sell you the codes and software and everything else as part of the package.
That’s never stopped ‘buy domestic or buy international partnership no matter the cost’ arms procurement programs before. The worst example of it for a while was with German diesel sub exports, especially the Type 209 class. Numerous nations insisted on local assembly or even complete local fabrication of the boats and the Germans were happy to oblige even when a nation was buying as few as two! Can you imagine that, setting up a whole highly specialized assembly yard for just two submarines? In more modern times the Eurofighter is another excellent example of money wasting, with all of 620 aircraft assembled on four different lines in three different batches over like 10 years… that makes for really great production rates.
If Frequesue wants to build a lot of these destroyers then the logical way to do it would be modular construction in several different nations, with just one yard doing final assembly and outfitting. It won’t save money (international projects are inherently more expensive anyway), but it does spread the work around to numerous smaller yards, and once the bugs of production are worked out (which could take years in real life) it’s a decently fast way to go.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
So, Beowulf, I've been told by Czech you want some sort of Mutual Non-Agression Pact with me?
Also, what's with the Shepistan war?
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
So all the F-111Fs in my inventory are going to get sold off.
And there's a carrier up for grabs.
Delivery end of the year.
Any takers?
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:So all the F-111Fs in my inventory are going to get sold off.
And there's a carrier up for grabs.
Delivery end of the year.
Any takers?
Funny you mention that. I was actually thinking of retiring my own F-111s next year so I could replace them with either F-15 ACTIVEs or more F-16XLs. How much per aircraft, do I save if I buy in bulk, and can some of them be refitted as EF-111A Ravens?
Last edited by Shinn Langley Soryu on 2008-09-14 11:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
A full-deck carrier is waaaay out of the FTO's league. That said, I'm still offering you guys the IRT CVL design, but I haven't figured out the cost yet ...
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Baerne, I can sell you B-1 bombers.
And/or F-16XLs for more tactical multi-role duties.
Wonderful. I'd like ten B-1s and twenty F-16XLs, please. About when would I receive them?
The B-1Bs cost $280 million each in 1998 dollars, and the F-16XLs will cost somewhere around $80 mil apiece. (But they get much cheaper when you order more, like Langley!)
You'd receive them somewhere later in 2009, or right before 2010. Just make the order, like Langley (since right now I'm at school).
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
With extremely long range, a truly massive payload, and integrated electronic warfare capability, it looks like my old Aardvarks and Ravens have been eclipsed. I think I'll put in another order for F-16XLs and sell off the dozen or so F-111s I have once I've received the initial shipment, which should be sometime by the end of the month in real time...
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
If you want quality aircraft, I would Recomend the Zorian ZF-10 Katana (F/A-18 ) Fighter.
Zor
HAIL ZOR!WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL Terran Sphere The Art of Zor
phongn wrote:How heavily worked are your F-111Fs and the carrier?
Also, why are you bothering with TVC on your bombers?
Well, figured might as well fit the bombers out with the latest stuff (though I might change my mind).
The F-111Fs haven't really been used much, since the F-15s and the Su-39 have been doing most of the work.
The carrier is well used...
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
