SDNWorld Redux - Casting Call & Planning

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah I might be exaggerating my true concern; but land boarders simply mean far more opportunity for interaction short of nuclear warfare. Once you start missile spamming and air bombing its all on war… what if all you want to do is hack up a couple boarder guards with axes and machetes?

[PeZook]

Yeah I might be exaggerating my true concern; but land boarders simply mean far more opportunity for interaction short of nuclear warfare. Once you start missile spamming and air bombing its all on war… what if all you want to do is hack up a couple boarder guards with axes and machetes?

With all due respect to the Emperor, I don't think many people have such exotic passtimes

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeah I might be exaggerating my true concern; but land boarders simply mean far more opportunity for interaction short of nuclear warfare. Once you start missile spamming and air bombing its all on war… what if all you want to do is hack up a couple boarder guards with axes and machetes?

With all due respect to the Emperor, I don't think many people have such exotic passtimes

We have one already, and he doesn't use axes and machetes, he uses nukes.

[PeZook]

We have already one already, and he doesn't use axes and machetes, he uses nukes.

Yeah, but he's got a land border.

And...hey, I just realized the FUN will get a sinigicant boost this time around

Shroomania is a tsardom, PeZookia a Kingdom, and if Stas joins - we get na Imperium.

Spaceflight!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeah, but he's got a land border.

And...hey, I just realized the FUN will get a sinigicant boost this time around

Shroomania is a tsardom, PeZookia a Kingdom, and if Stas joins - we get na Imperium.

Spaceflight!

Well, I wish I shared that confidence, because there seems to be an almost fatalist side to this "moar nukes for powwwwer!" bit.

[PeZook]

Well, I wish I shared that confidence, because there seems to be an almost fatalist side to this "moar nukes for powwwwer!" bit.

With our larger economy, we'll fucking outspam Shep and his nukewank

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

With our larger economy, we'll fucking outspam Shep and his nukewank

Well, back in the last game, outspamming Shep wasn't a problem.

The problem was the game was over.

[PeZook]

Well, back in the last game, outspamming Shep wasn't a problem.

The problem was the game was over.

It depends on what you spam. We can make Old Continent airspace impenetrable to anything but mach 15 ultramissiles

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, back in the last game, outspamming Shep wasn't a problem.

The problem was the game was over.

It depends on what you spam. We can make Old Continent airspace impenetrable to anything but mach 15 ultramissiles

We probably ought to set up a defence arrangement that doesn't result in too much possible friction between MESS and FUN and such that both entitites benefit from close interaction. Some quarters might dislike getting dragged into wars they have no interest in.

[PeZook]

We probably ought to set up a defence arrangement that doesn't result in too much possible friction between MESS and FUN and such that both entitites benefit from close interaction. Some quarters might dislike getting dragged into wars they have no interest in.

I'm all for defence doctrine based upon defensive weapons, rather than massive retaliation. I don't think the MESS would object to vast SAM networks in our territorry (especially if you're part of them, since this way FUN defences protect a MESS member, too), but they may have a problem with massive bomber and SSBN fleets, so let's keep those to a minimum

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I'm all for defence doctrine based upon defensive weapons, rather than massive retaliation. I don't think the MESS would object to vast SAM networks in our territorry (especially if you're part of them, since this way FUN defences protect a MESS member, too), but they may have a problem with massive bomber and SSBN fleets, so let's keep those to a minimum

A vast joint SAM network will be great, along with cloes coordination between Air Forces. Joint patrols between navies and so forth.

As for strategic forces, I suggest that FUN and MESS keep them separate because of their nature. I don't fancy deploying very expensive units. The economy is much larger, but I'd be spending a lot of time building up my navy and air force.

[PeZook]

Yeah, defensive co-operation has no strange vibes, so it should be cool. We should also integrate our radars and communication lines, to use the same protocols and procedures, have all pilots learn English, use the same fuel and fuelling equipment everywhere, etc.

And some sort of a joint air-and-sea defence command for Old Continent airspace would be necessary, too.

With backups, redundancy and decentralized decision-making nodes built into the system, too

I think this should be the first agreement OC powers sign.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeah, defensive co-operation has no strange vibes, so it should be cool. We should also integrate our radars and communication lines, to use the same protocols and procedures, have all pilots learn English, use the same fuel and fuelling equipment everywhere, etc.

And some sort of a joint air-and-sea defence command for Old Continent airspace would be necessary, too.

With backups, redundancy and decentralized decision-making nodes built into the system, too

I think this should be the first agreement OC powers sign.

Yeah, along with the usual free trade agreements and so forth. I personally do not object to being an observer in FUN, barring any possible problems with regard to treaties and alliances.

[phongn]

Shit, why is everyone allying already? And if everyone is going "well, we must defend against Shep's nuclear ambitions" - nobody knows that he has such things in-character.

[PeZook]

Shit, why is everyone allying already? And if everyone is going "well, we must defend against Shep's nuclear ambitions" - nobody knows that he has such things in-character.

Why? We've been snatched up by Q from the ravaged remains of Nova Terra and given a new world to play in

Unless he wiped our memories and stuff.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Shit, why is everyone allying already? And if everyone is going "well, we must defend against Shep's nuclear ambitions" - nobody knows that he has such things in-character.

MESS still exists in some form.

And well, he has hinted in old posts that he plans to stock pile a lot of weapons...

Shepistani Weapons Designation System

Shepistani Weapons are designated in a sequential numeral system in blocks of 100 assigned to each major type of agent.

Indicates weapon is in Stockpile in some quantities

Chemical Weapons - Designated in the "C" Series.

Blood Agents
C100 - CK – Cyanogen Chloride
C101 - AC – Hydrogen Cyanide

Nerve Agents
C200 - GA - Tabun
C201 - GB - Sarin
C202 - GD - Soman
C203 - GF - Cyclosarin
C204 - GV
C205 - VE
C206 - VG
C207 - VM
C208 - VR
C209 - VX
C210 - Novichok Series - 5 to 8 times more potent than VX. Secret Russian program in 1970s-1980s to develop an agent that was indetectable by NATO chemical detection systems.

Blister Agents
C300 - L - Lewisite
C301 - HD - Sulfur Mustard
C302 - H - Sulfur Mustard
C303 - HT - Sulfur Mustard
C304 - HL - Sulfur Mustard
C305 - HQ - Sulfur Mustard
C306 - HN1 - Nitrogen Mustard
C307 - HN2 - Nitrogen Mustard
C308 - HN3 - Nitrogen Mustard

Pulmonary Agents
C400 - Chlorine
C401 - PS -Chloropicrin
C402 - CG -Phosgene
C403 - DP -Diphosgene

Incapacitating Agents
C500 - BZ – Agent 15
C501 - EA-3167
C502 - Kolokol-1
C503 - "Gay Bomb"

Riot Agents
C600 - OC – Pepper Spray
C601 - CS
C602 - CN – Mace
C603 - CR

Biological Weapons - Designated in the "B" Series.

Bacterial Agents
B100 - Anthrax (Agent N)
B101 - Botulinism (Agent X)
B102 - Brucellosis (Agent US)
B103 - Cholera -
B104 - Clostridium Perfringens
B105 - E. coli
B106 - Glanders
B107 - Melioidosis
B108 - Plague (Yersinia pestis)
B109 - Salmonella
B109A - Salmonella (Chlorine Resistant)
B110 - Shigellosis
B111 - Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B
B112 - Tularemia (Agent UL) - Fatality rate of 40-60%. Rate of Action 3 days, with duration of 1-3 weeks (treated) and 2-3 months (untreated). Sensitive to sunlight and loses virulence over time.
B113 - Typhoid Fever
B114 - Tuberculosis

Viral Agents
B200 - Venezuelan Equine Encephalomyelitis.
B201 - Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever
B202 - Venezulan Hemorrhagic Fever
B203 - Lassa Fever
B204 - Marburg Hemorrhagic Fever
B205 - Ebola Hemhorrhagic Fever
B206 - Yellow Fever
B207 - Psittacosis
B208 - Smallpox

Rickettsiae Agents
B300 - Q Fever
B301 - Rocky Mountain Fever

Sycosis Agents
B400 - Coccidioidomycosis (Valley Fever)

Toxic Weapons - Designated in the "T" Series.
T100 - Ricin
T101 - Paralytic Shellfish Poison
T102 - Krait Snake Venom (Lethal)

Nuclear Weapons - Designated in the "N" Series.

Fission Devices
N100 - Fat Man Type Implosion Device
N101 - Little Boy Type Gun-Type Device

Fusion Devices
N200 - Layer Cake Device
N201- Teller-Ulam Device

Special Projects Division
N300 - Multi-Gigaton Doomsday Device, Buried under mountain; has multi-thousand ton cobalt jacket.
N301 - Orbiting Space Station armed with dozens of nukes. Known as Death Star.
N302 - Manned Lunar Outpost armed with dozens of missiles for last strike capability.
N303 - CLASSIFIED BURN BEFORE READING

Manned Aircraft - Designated in the "A" Series.

Fighters
A100 - Tactical Fighter. Single Engine.
A101 - Strategic Fighter. Twin Engine.
A102 - Tactical Interceptor. Single Engine. -- Project is underway
A103 - Strategic Interceptor. Twin Engine

Bombers
A200 - Tactical Bomber
A201 - Strategic Bomber

Support Craft
A300 - Strategic Tanker
A301 - Strategic Electronic Warfare
A302 - Strategic Airlift
A303 - Tactical Airlift

[Siege]

And well, he has hinted in old posts that he plans to stock pile a lot of weapons...

You needed hints? It's Shep. Of course he's going to stockpile a lot of weapons. I didn't need his 'lol thickened soman' posts to deduce that much.

Also, as a former Shroomanian colony, I'd appreciate observer status in FUN.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And well, he has hinted in old posts that he plans to stock pile a lot of weapons...

You needed hints? It's Shep. Of course he's going to stockpile a lot of weapons. I didn't need his 'lol thickened soman' posts to deduce that much.

Also, as a former Shroomanian colony, I'd appreciate observer status in FUN.

I was being sarcastic. Some among here don't think Shep would pull asshat nonsense again. Judging from that list of weapons he claims he will stockpile, one has to wonder, or even question why he needs so much crap just to defend his country.

[Sea Skimmer]

Why? We've been snatched up by Q from the ravaged remains of Nova Terra and given a new world to play in

Unless he wiped our memories and stuff.

If he didn’t, then war will most likely break out immediately. I know I wouldn’t hold back the human wave knowing you’ll be building doomsday nukes for sure. Anyway, I’d like to commit most of my fissile material into wasteful tactical nuclear devices of dubious purpose, like atomic demolition charges and nuclear tank shells for Chieftain equivalents. Allying should really wait for a map.

[PeZook]

If he didn’t, then war will most likely break out immediately. I know I wouldn’t hold back the human wave knowing you’ll be building doomsday nukes for sure.

We actually won't. The doomsday nukes were an attempt to get a deterrent quickly in an environment where Shep bragged about his capability to win a nuclear war, and tensions could jump up at any moment.

Besides, it's Shep who's planning a multi-gigaton doomsday device

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

So far as I know, only me, phong, and Setzer are doing island nations (and Setzer seems ready to change). Maybe Wilkens, if he decides to play.

That's...four. The vast majority of people I've seen have some continent thing going on.

I'm also an island. I like the way my lay low policy has effect even before the game actually starts.

[Coyote]

Final (hopefully) revised Navy points:


CAPITAL WARSHIPS: 1000 points allocated from 3000 point limit.

"Triton"-class Cruiser-Carrier (Nuclear Cruiser-Carrier; "Admiral Kuznetsov" look-alike) =16 pts.
+3 flights of AV-8B (2 pts per flight = 6 pts)
+1 E2 Hawkeye-type AWACs (=1 pt.)
Ship + Planes = 23 points.

"Neptune"-class Amphib Assault (Nuclear Amphib Assault; "Wasp" look-alike) =16 pts.
+3 flights AV-8B (2 points per flight = 6 pts)
Ship + Planes = 22 points.

"Kraken"-class Cruisers (Nuclear; "Ticonderoga" look-alike) =12 pts.
"Raidaa"-class Destroyers ("Arleigh-Burke /Flight IIA" look-alike) =4 pts.
"F100"-lass Frigates ("F100" look-alike) =2 pts.
"Anuket"-class Corvettes (NATO-ized Russian "Tarantul" look-alike) =1 pt.
"Pegasus"-class Hydrofoils ("Pegasus"-class look-alike) =1 pt.
"Seahorse"-class Minesweepers ("Frankenthal"-class look-alike) =1pt.
"Victoria"-class SSKs ("Victoria"-class SSK look-alike) =2 pts.
"Seawolf"-class SSNs ("Seawolf"-class SSN look-alike) =4 pts.


"Provider"-class Replenishment ship, heavy ("Lews and Clark"-class look-alikes) =2 pts
"Sustainer"-class Replenishment ship, light ("Type-404/Elbe"-class look-alikes) =2pts
"Industrialist"-class Oiler ("Henry J. Kaiser"-class look-alike) =2pts
"Supply"-class Task Force Underway Replenishment ships ("Supply"-class look-alike) =4pts
"Onager"-class Oceangoing tug/recovery vessel ("USNS Apache T-ATF-172"-class look-alike) =2pts
"Hope"-class RO/RO Strategic Positioning ships ("USNS Bob Hope (T-AKR-300)"-class look-alike) =2pts
"Stalwart"-class Ocean surveillance ship ("Stalwart") =3pts.


CANISSIAN ROYAL NAVY:
4 "Triton"-class Carriers (92 pts)
4 "Neptune"-class Amphib Assault (92 pts)
10 "Kraken"-class Cruisers (120 pts)
40 "Raidaa"-class Destroyers (160 pts)
50 "F100"-class Frigates (100 pts)
30 "Anuket"-class Corvettes (30 pts)
30 "Pegasus"-class Corvette/Hydrofoils (30 pts)
6 "Seahorse"-class Minesweepers (6 pts)
14 "Victoria"-class SSKs (28 pts)
8 "Seawolf"-class SSNs (32 pts)

690 pts for combatants


2 "Provider"-class Supply ships (4 pts)
2 "Industrialist"-class oilers (4 pts)
4 "Supply"-class TFUR ships (16 pts)
6 "Sustainer"-class Supply ships (12 pts)
6 "Onager"-class Ocean tugs (12 pts)
6 "Hope"-class RO/RO (12 pts)
4 "Stalwart"-class Surveillance (8 pts)

68 pts for support ships


SEAL Team 1 = 4 points
SEAL Team 2 = 4 points
SEAL Team 3 = 4 points
SEAL Team 4 = 4 points


774 points spent/226 left of 1000 pts allocated.

What was the final call on ASW helos? Considered an integrated part of the ship (ie, comes with the points) or a seperate air wing that needs to be purchased on its own?

[Coyote]

As far as points allocations go--

I'm also noticing that "trucks & jeeps" are not included. I'm going on the assumption that, since these are not combat vehicles, there is no need to account for them as far as point allocation.

However, if supply trucks are armed solely for defense (a .50 cal or a M-60 in a driver's cab ring-mount) and are not used for any attack role, are they still "free"? What if someone is using their trucks as primary troop transporters, ie, drive to within 10 miles of the battlefield, dismount, and hoof it from there? "Screaming Horde" infantry types use this method all the time, and it was used by foot infantry in WW2 for transporting non-mechanized troops over long distances.

If someone wants to use their supply trucks as "technicals" I say we charge them the points, but if trucks/jeeps are used solely for driving about & dropping off supplies, or troops far from the battle, there's no need to charge for them.

Which leads me to my next point-- there are numerous helicopters that serve the same purpose on navy ships. Are we using the same rules for them? Cargo and Utility 'copters, used solely for shuttle-about missions, are "free"? I mean, we don't charge points for the motor-launch or longboats used for ship-to-shore transport-- they're part of the ship.

Obviously, helicopters used for troop transport & assault will be charged, though, right? (So I'll have to go back to my Navy and account for some troop copter's for Marines).

[Raj Ahten]

As far as points allocations go--

I'm also noticing that "trucks & jeeps" are not included. I'm going on the assumption that, since these are not combat vehicles, there is no need to account for them as far as point allocation.

However, if supply trucks are armed solely for defense (a .50 cal or a M-60 in a driver's cab ring-mount) and are not used for any attack role, are they still "free"? What if someone is using their trucks as primary troop transporters, ie, drive to within 10 miles of the battlefield, dismount, and hoof it from there? "Screaming Horde" infantry types use this method all the time, and it was used by foot infantry in WW2 for transporting non-mechanized troops over long distances.

If someone wants to use their supply trucks as "technicals" I say we charge them the points, but if trucks/jeeps are used solely for driving about & dropping off supplies, or troops far from the battle, there's no need to charge for them.

Which leads me to my next point-- there are numerous helicopters that serve the same purpose on navy ships. Are we using the same rules for them? Cargo and Utility 'copters, used solely for shuttle-about missions, are "free"? I mean, we don't charge points for the motor-launch or longboats used for ship-to-shore transport-- they're part of the ship.

Obviously, helicopters used for troop transport & assault will be charged, though, right? (So I'll have to go back to my Navy and account for some troop copter's for Marines).

Why bother charging points for technicals? They aren't exactly worth jack shit when compared to AFV's and there is esentially no difference between a transport and a technical besides intent in their use. I'd be willing to say Humvees, technicals and whatnot come with any infantry you buy as part of their cost. So infantry units come with transport assets and you only have to pay additional points if you want to make them a heavier force with armoured vehicles.

For Helicopters on ships I'd be willing to say that ASW helicopters and such should come with your destroyers and frigates, as helicopters don't really cost that much anyway. For carriers and such, you should pay for aircraft as those jets are quite expensive in points. Honestly I don't think it matters too much, all we have to do is make a decision on the matter; as I said helicopters are not expensive in terms of points here.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Shall we just assume one ASW copter per destroyer/frigate or anything that has a hanger for that?