SD.net: Lords of Darkness (RAR!) Mk-II

[Crossroads Inc.]

I'm not being critical here Crossroads, I'm just saying that if you want certain things (such as detailed, interesting OOBs), then you're more likely to get them with different starting conditions. If you don't want those things, that's fine too. If you set all the conditions the same for everyone except for their location and exactly how many of the five or six possible units they have, you're going to see pretty similar posts. If you make it more flexible, i.e. people can chose a few advantages from a list or buy them with points, then you will see more variety as people take different strategies. If the scenario was set up to encourage conquest from the get go, you'd at least see variety in military strategy, but it isn't, and there isn't really that much you can add to 'I sit in one place for a century or two building up my population and lording it over the locals'.

I think we need to sit down and talk this over, Im very interested in letting people be more creative with things, but at the same time don't want to let things get too out of hand. As such i'd love to go over ways to let people be more flexiable in terms of point spending and swapping units around.

If you're going to go all STGOD I'd suggest stepping forward in increments of 20 or 50 years, letting everyone get population growth (you'll need a growth rate per species), and seeing when the first person feels confident enough to start conquering and oppressing. Or failing that, when the Pope declares his first crusade against the false gods.

Perhaps so, maybe 15 years or so, but that might be increased depending on how others play. As far as good ol conquering goes, =very few have settled anywhere near the main powers of Europe, so it may be some time before we see direct result... That said, I am looking forward to the powers that do grow up kicking the religious despots around, in due corse.

Well, would you like me to post a version of the GURPS fantasy species creation rules (perhaps with the WHFB rules for weapons and equipment) condensed into 100 lines or so? They're the best balanced, most flexible ones I'm aware of, and almost certainly better than anything any of us could come up with in a few hours. Of course if you did adopt them quite a few people would probably want to redesign their starting armies.

I say go for it, I want to bring in as much info as possible to flesh things out...

Which reminds me, Currently, between people needing to reedit things and me changing and updating things.. Im looking at this thread as more of a "Test Run" in that we all may hammer out exactly how we want things to go, then go to the next step and attempt to do this oin a STGOD where we'll post things properly and fully formed.


Which reminds me...
In my studies of the area around Sandusky, it seems the place is quite a hotbed for stone quarries, specifically Limestone. One of Ohio's Largest is located just a mile south of Sandusky itself. As such it seems I will be in the Stone business and plan on building a well paved Stone road down to the Ohio River which I will then use to ship and trade Limestone to the rest of you all. Personally I hope to have production of Quicklime and cement up in a couple of years

Also I'd like ot extend a formal hand of friendship to "Dave" since he is now the closest to me geological and s also the closest nation on the Ohio River. Once my Limestone production is up, I may plan on building a proper road to his place for more formal trade. Also to exchange Minions to keep from inbreeding. I hope to offer any support he needs in starting Iron mining as well.

One last thing, Im not sure if anyones noticed this from the OP:

GOLD: For purposes of financing and paying peasants and others, you will get gold, 5 grams for every 10 army points (with no effect on your army choices) in nice 1 kilogram cubes

But there is going to be a LOT of gold floating around

MAP update too

[Zor]

Uh, i have 50,000 points.

Zor

[Crossroads Inc.]

My mistake, ill update it on the nexxt map update/

[Solauren]

Just a little further up-river please. I want to control the source of the water for that tributary.

[Dave]

Also I'd like ot extend a formal hand of friendship to "Dave" since he is now the closest to me geological and s also the closest nation on the Ohio River. Once my Limestone production is up, I may plan on building a proper road to his place for more formal trade. Also to exchange Minions to keep from inbreeding. I hope to offer any support he needs in starting Iron mining as well.

Sounds good! Might I suggest a route? 148km; 1 day, 6 hours continuous land travel time

You can sail from Sandusky to Ashtabula, portage from Ashtabula to East Liverpool, and drop your boats back in the water about two klicks downstream from my hill.

GOLD: For purposes of financing and paying peasants and others, you will get gold, 5 grams for every 10 army points (with no effect on your army choices) in nice 1 kilogram cubes

But there is going to be a LOT of gold floating around.

No offense, but do we really need all this gold floating around? I mean, our workers are all evil minions that worship us as god anyways, so we don't need to pay them. Peasants may like shiny baubles for a little while, but they're going to want quality of life (which I can provide), not gold coins. And we're going to be trading goods for goods, not swapping through gold exchanges. Can I (should I?) trade the 3+ kilos of gold I'm sitting on for improved tools, better initial industry (steam engine?), prebuilt structures (housing/farms/stone buildings/free dam?) or some initial riverboats? Because as it stands I have to fell extra timber (on top of what I need for frantic civilization-building), build the boats, launch them and only then can I even think about even putting patrols out on the river.

[Styphon]

No offense, but do we really need all this gold floating around?

Do keep in mind that that gold is going to be very handy on the annual trips back to the real world, assuming you're using those trips to pick up supplies of some sort and not just goof off and watch whatever movies you've missed.

[Solauren]

Actually, that brings up a point

How does the return to the real world work? DO we get to choose the arrival date, and how do we pay for things?

I mean, are we expected to sell our live savings, is Q paying for things, do we bring gold through and it converts magically into our bank accounts until we leave?

Because quite frankly, knowing our economics on BOTH worlds could massively, massively effect everyone's build up and stratergy's.

I mean, if we can say, spend 5 years mining gold, then bring that through, place a bunch of orders for equipment into a warehouse, and then pick it up effectively the next week after it's delivered, well, just imagine what we could bring back.

More Parameters detailed Earth-Dark Lord interactions would be very nice.

[Dave]

More Parameters detailed Earth-Dark Lord interactions would be very nice.

Or, if they get in the way too much, eliminated entirely. I mean, if we say that all you can bring through is your cubic meter and whatever significant others you chose (up to 20 people, say), than that makes later interactions much less complicated. Perhaps if the door only works one way -- out -- it would improve the long term stability of the game.

Hmm, now that I think about it, if it's out only, you could hook up a sewer line to it...

Just a thought.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Feh ok ok... The door works both ways once a year for 24 hours. However as mentioned the "In" is only the size of a large wooden door in your castles basement. You can go around buying backhoes and construction equipment.

As for the Gold, I'd expected people to use it long term an such, for financing things WAY down the road when Economies and trade with other large powers kick in.

Trying to bring back kilogram cubes of Gold back to Earth Proper to buy things, I am not sure how feasible that is going to be, I mean where do you go to Sell gold like that? It won't have any marks or numbers on it, just a cube of gold As for "When" you come back, well its once a year in RAR earth, but I don't know, if it was also once a year to Earth Prime, well, but the time you come back from just your first trip everyone would think you had left or died. Then again there is no way you could simply keep two lives going... I may have to rethink the "Way Back Door" unless I have a more elegant solution.

As to Dave... One, Do as much research as you can into early mining, since we will be starting from scratch. You mine, Ill get Stone, there is would all around us. We can work on building a road together, perhaps meet in the middle, it will be an early project for us both to coordinate together. Though I am thinking a More direct route from My City to yours, I mean in 1350 I doubt there is anything in the way other then trees and small hills, there is certainly no terrain that would need to be tunneled or anything between us.

[Darth Yoshi]

If you go for a STGOD with this concept, I'd recommend just eliminating the "get out" option entirely or limit it to the original idea of once you leave you can't come back to keep things simpler.

[Master_Baerne]

I second the motion.

Also, does anyone know how to figure out population growth for orcs and such?

[Darth Yoshi]

Ghetto edit to previous post: The original idea wasn't a single use escape clause, it turns out. Still, my point remains.

Baerne:
We'd need to know mortality rates. Presumably a single generation is roughly 25-30% of the lifespan.

Anywho, Crossroads, when you say not in a city, does that mean I can't drop my Forsaken Fortress of Feudal Fervor™ on the outskirts of an existing city? For instance, say I want to show up outside Beijing and overthrow the Yuan Dynasty. Am I allowed to do that, or would I have to establish myself somewhere in the steppes and wage a bloody campaign to fight my way to the capital?

[Samuel]

I find colony drops more befitting of an evil overlord personally, but that is just me.

[KroLazuxy_87]

My mistake, ill update it on the nexxt map update/

If you could slap my tiny domain on the map as well, that'd be great. (Current day Omaha, Nebraska)

[KroLazuxy_87]

Anywho, Crossroads, when you say not in a city, does that mean I can't drop my Forsaken Fortress of Feudal
Fervor™ on the outskirts of an existing city? For instance, say I want to show up outside Beijing and overthrow the
Yuan Dynasty. Am I allowed to do that, or would I have to establish myself somewhere in the steppes and wage a
bloody campaign to fight my way to the capital?

Either way is gonna be bloody. They had hand cannons for god's sake...




It may be worth it though, 1350 is near the end of the Yuan dynasty. They completed many extensive public works projects, leaving you a pre-built society. Ukhaantu Khan (Ruler) seemed to be losing control starting 1349, so nice timing.

[Mr Bean]

I think the get out of world free door needs to be axed or limited
Even if it is a tiny door, my twenty four hour window gives me time in six hour segments to set up the mother of all arms deals. Your thinking about backhoes, perhaps machine tools or precise unpowered measuring devices or maybe molds.

I'm thinking crates on crates of Kalashnikov's. In places like Turkey it's possible to buy hundreds on thousands of assault rifles. Yes much of it is junk but I know you can find "factory fresh" IE 1965 model AK-47's still in their protective plastic with the factory tags still stamped on the outside. Hell even state side I could via a decent sized gun-show get enough weapons to arm a few thousand Orcs & Satyr's to say nothing of purpose built reproduction cannon models with that much gold laying around.

The only issue is time, if I only have one 24 hour slot and it's going to be on some unhelpful shopping day(IE you get to come back on Thanksgiving or Xmas day, some day when it would be very hard to set up an arms deal or get any shopping done.

Also Mr Baan?

[Darth Yoshi]

If I can spawn right outside the capital, I can swarm it, capture the Khan, and force him to abdicate in a fairly bloodless coup. The peasants will love it; unlike the Khan, I'm Han. Further, my army of inhuman creatures is obviously proof that I have the Mandate of Heaven, for whose else but the gods could command an army of demons? It'll be even more convincing if I make a point of having my army practice Buddhism. If I can quickly reestablish control over the empire and alleviate the worst of the unrest, I'll even take stop the upcoming rebellion in its tracks, retconning the Ming out of existence and giving me an empire with minimal work.

Anyway, here's my breakdown.
250 satyrs, all scholars
1000 naga, 25 fishers
350 minotaurs, 50 farmers
500 centaurs, 50 herders
200 ursoids
10000 orcs, 100 traders, 20 smiths
2000 goblins, 225 ogre keepers, the rest as agricultural laborers
15 ogres

7500 cattle
1250 chickens
1250 pigs

My box of stuff will have radios, nightvision goggles, and copies of a world atlas, which will be distributed amongst the commanders of my army.

[Zor]

I think the get out of world free door needs to be axed or limited
Even if it is a tiny door, my twenty four hour window gives me time in six hour segments to set up the mother of all arms deals. Your thinking about backhoes, perhaps machine tools or precise unpowered measuring devices or maybe molds.

I agree and propose a system of being allowed to carry through a Cubic meter (besides our persons) of stuff either way each year. That way you can come back to modern Terra with some gold and have a party and go on a shoping spree or something and bring to the medieval world with some new novels and a few anime box sets and we don't have this turning into a giant Kalashnikov fest until our minions and domains have undergone an Industrial Revolution.

Zor

[CaptainChewbacca]

I second the motion.

Also, does anyone know how to figure out population growth for orcs and such?

Orcs have a gestation period of 7 months, with 2-3 young per birth being normal. Orcs are reproductively mature at age 10, and for reasons nobody's quite sure of, males outnumber females 3:2.

[Serafina]

I think the get out of world free door needs to be axed or limited
Even if it is a tiny door, my twenty four hour window gives me time in six hour segments to set up the mother of all arms deals. Your thinking about backhoes, perhaps machine tools or precise unpowered measuring devices or maybe molds.

I'm thinking crates on crates of Kalashnikov's. In places like Turkey it's possible to buy hundreds on thousands of assault rifles. Yes much of it is junk but I know you can find "factory fresh" IE 1965 model AK-47's still in their protective plastic with the factory tags still stamped on the outside. Hell even state side I could via a decent sized gun-show get enough weapons to arm a few thousand Orcs & Satyr's to say nothing of purpose built reproduction cannon models with that much gold laying around.

The only issue is time, if I only have one 24 hour slot and it's going to be on some unhelpful shopping day(IE you get to come back on Thanksgiving or Xmas day, some day when it would be very hard to set up an arms deal or get any shopping done.

Also Mr Baan?

There is an easy solution to this: Spend one or two years to "make the deal" - a number of weapons at a specified place on a specified date (on "Day X" in the third year). This way, you can spend a whole day transporting weapon crates though your door.
Given that this is possible, we should eleminate the possiblity alltogether.

[Solauren]

Either that, (the Door back) or else we need details on the parameters.

i.e What can you take to earth with you, how you are expected to provide financing for anything you want, etc.

[Master_Baerne]

I second the motion.

Also, does anyone know how to figure out population growth for orcs and such?

Orcs have a gestation period of 7 months, with 2-3 young per birth being normal. Orcs are reproductively mature at age 10, and for reasons nobody's quite sure of, males outnumber females 3:2.

Right, so: Assume a 1000-orc starting population. Per the OP, all creatures are mature adults at game start. Therefore, 600 male and 400 female orcs; 400 mated pairs, assuming that's how orc society works. Give them a month to conceive, (anyone with a better estimate ought to share it), and 8 months from game start, 800-1200 baby orcs will be born. Assume 1000 for simplicity's sake. Therefore: An orc population adds roughly 2.5 times the number of breeding females every ten months or so.

[Thanas]

Can we also be placed in the old world?

[Solauren]

My Suggestion for the way the door back works;

Once a year in Lords of Darkness World
Whenever you wanted to exit back in the Real World.

Note: I’m assuming that once you die, you return the Real world a few hours after your last ‘return trip’, or right when you first go chosen, and you real life is unaffected.
Note: I’m assuming when the scenario runs out, you return to the Real world a few hours after your last ‘return trip’, or right when you first go chosen, and you real life is unaffected.

The Door is ‘open’ for 24 hours, and as mentioned, is the size of a standard wooden house door, exiting to where you want it to go. If you don’t have a specific target in mind (i.e address, or ‘where I left from last time’ when the timer ran out and you were pulled back), it opens into a door to your house.

(Alternatively, a ‘magic key’ would also be useful, and open up more options. I'd honestly like to be able to bring back a few pieces of machinary that would be useful, but they will not fit through a door that small without needing to be reassembled)

Should we put a weight limit on how much of a given item or material can be transferred? It depends on the financing.
I can imagine we'd have someone try to bring back alot of solar cells and other equipment and try to sell them to each other...

I’d suggest these limits

You can’t spend more then 25% of your most recent G.M.P (Gross Minion Production) back in the Real world. So, even if you managed to mine or acquire the equal of 10 million barrels of oil, you could only sell about 2.5 million worth. Anything beyond that you try to take back is not added to your 'credit card' (see below), and returns with you after you return.
Note: This can not be used to avoid the consequences of being under seige or attack, so no moving your treasury and going 'nah-nah'.

Exception to this limit: If you take out a fellow Lord of Darkness, you can also spend 25% of their more recent G.M.P on your next return to the 'real world'. (Kind of like conquering a captial in most war games)

The material’s worth is determined by how much effort you put into it. Refined Gold bricks are worth more then Gold ore, etc.

You have to move the material through the doorway yourself. Your minions, machines, etc, can’t get within 20 feet of it, on either side. Stuff like trolley and lifts still work. Your minions also can’t just push something through using a long pole or something. You have to move it. (You could, however, do something like set up a coal-train assembly and push it through, but the point it, the movement must be Lord of Darkness powered)

The value of anything you bring in is automatically added to a ‘credit card’ provided by ‘Q’. Half of what you don’t spend (to a maximum of 10% of your GMP) is saved onto the credit card for your next trip. Value is real-world minus 25% (he's hitting you with a brokerage charge)

Your minions can help bring stuff back once it’s on the LoD side of the door. Once they start bringing stuff in, however, you can’t take anything else back and get money for it.

I’m wondering if you should be allowed to hire mercenaries and the like. That adds a level to the scenario we probably don’t want in something meant to be semi light-hearted. (i.e breeding stock)

[Serafina]

Honestly, i do not like the possibility to go back and buy stuff. It certainly is interesting, but i prefer hanging around on my own, without the possibilty to get modern weapons and other stuff.

Under the currently proposed circumstances, i would set down my base at some nice diamond/gold deposit (propably around Johannesburg) and use as many minions as possible (propably Goblins - being small is actually an advantage) for mining it. I would spend the income from the first years to upgrade my mining equipment, hopefully increasing my putput.
DeBeers is currently making 6.5 BILLION revenue a year (550 million net income). Even if i do not match their production rate, i do not have to PAY my minions. Even if i only manage to make ~250 million a year, 25% of that is still 62.5 million $ i can spend on weapons every year. I would estaminate an income of about 1 billion a year after some time, giving me 250 million dollars to spend every year.
With that, i can buy a lot of weapons, blueprints, electronics and so on - everything that fits through the door.
Possibly even some tanks or APCs, dissassembled (not sure about that).
At any rate, that would make all of use way more dangerous.

Thus, i would prefer if we remove the possiblity to bring back stuff from the real world, leaving us with our own resources from Earth 2. It is more fun, more challenging, and easier to work out.