SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[Beowulf]

ORBCOMM satellites are LEO satellites weighing about 60kg each. They're solar powered, and gravity gradient stabilized. The inter sat links work to the nearest other sats in the same plane, as well, as the nearest sats in the neighboring plane.

[RogueIce]

So let me get this straight, erik_t comes out of nowhere, bitches about Lonestar's space program, and before Lonestar even gets a chance to see this dispute, let alone respond to it or defend himself, Stas decided to go apeshit and do something that's basically an act of war?

Granted it was retconned, but Jesus Christ Stas, jump the gun much?

Personally I could see why Byzantium or PeZookia might not want to be part of the SNC. SiegeTank has a damn good point about the CSR overreacting to things. And not even bothering to let their allies know, either. At least for the One Week War the Old Dominion wasn't trying to hide anything from the MESS. And I think everyone knew something was going to happen sooner or later, anyway.

But man, if players are going to see some random outsider bitching about something in the OOC thread as a valid reason to go attack somebody, before the target of said bitching/attacks even gets to log on and know there's any bitching period I too will be tempted to call this game quits. It's bad enough with the "I want to buy, and we'll make the decisions so fast half the players have no idea there was even bidding" thing, having wars start (or people doing things that will lead to war) over some OOC bitching the accused party wasn't even aware of, well...

Of course I shouldn't be surprised, what with the gangbang on Astaria before Norseman could reply, even though he asked several times for some time to do so, but if that's going to be the course of things, than what's the point?

[K. A. Pital]

ORBCOMM satellites are LEO satellites weighing about 60kg each. They're solar powered, and gravity gradient stabilized. The inter sat links work to the nearest other sats in the same plane, as well, as the nearest sats in the neighboring plane.

60 kg commsats? Well duh; that's a ridiculously small weight and those can't be similar to real life recon or GPS sats. So I guess those do not pose a problem.

Granted it was retconned, but Jesus Christ Stas, jump the gun much?

I specifically made the attack deniable. "Who shot payloads into orbit? Who knows...". But yeah you're right. When President Stanislav doesn't like something that he feels is a threat to his nation, he will destroy it.

And not even bothering to let their allies know, either.

It was supposed to be a deniable rage-post Come on.

Seriously, how would you feel if say you start with piston aircraft but then someone - me maybe - says he just builit F-22 Raptor? Isn't that extreme? I just made a point that if we are simply handwaving tech into existence without schedule, I won't be playing anymore as well.

Also, it has nothing to do with Erik's persona - more with the fact ttht I overlooked Lonestar's use of future rocket tech. Pres. Stanislav is not omniscient. He merely alerted me to the fact - which I personally found insulting to game space development course. The post was little more than a simple FY gesture on my part.

[RogueIce]

Seriously, how would you feel if say you start with piston aircraft but then someone - me maybe - says he just builit F-22 Raptor? Isn't that extreme? I just made a point that if we are simply handwaving tech into existence without schedule, I won't be playing anymore as well.

I'd be annoyed too, but before I start shooting at him (whoever "he" is), I'd at least give him a chance to log on first. Now if he came by and said "fuck you guys, I'm doing this, ha ha!" then I could see doing what you did. Of course, I don't believe in declaring war on another player over something OOC, but that's just me.

EDIT: Especially if it's some unknown poster who decided to just stick his nose into a game he's not even a part of throwing around the accusations. Just sayin'.

Besides, unless I missed something where Lonestar made some super detailed technical specifications, how did you know it wasn't just him using the name because he liked it? It's not like he made a secret of sending GPS sats into orbit or anything.

Of course if some random newbie with 11 posts to his name coming in out of nowhere (in OOC no less!) to bitch about Lonestar's rocketry developments is enough to get you to start shooting at things, well, maybe Comrade Stanislav needs a vacation from the pressures of national leadership?

[K. A. Pital]

I made that post to show that I'm seriously annoyed.

Bitching in OOC can last for pages and bring nothing as a result. So consider that President Stanislav utilizes his nation as means of political pressure against outlandish technology

Now if he came by and said "fuck you guys, I'm doing this, ha ha!"

As I said, declaring a huge liftoff capacity when the world's top space organization is reaching somewhere around 6ton to LEO with it's prime existing rocket is exactly a big fuck you in the face of all people who follow a sane tech tree.

P.S. And yeah I am an asshole about it, but so? I spent entire weeks to draw up the CSR's fucking tech tree, despite promising myself not to waste time. I drew up armies, I projected industrial equipment levels for my nation, projects and everything.

PeZook controlled the FASTA space development in the same manner as a huge consequential strategy of getting to space.

And then I see this?!

I don't believe in declaring war on another player over something OOC

I didn't declare war on another player. I made a deniable ASAT attack to show my ire. All.

[Shroom Man 777]

Fuck off, Shep. Astaria is now FUN property!

[Steve]

Like that's gonna stop Shep...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And as I told Norseman, the bulldozer ain't going to stop for some paper barrier. He'd bulldoze through as if it ain't there.

[Zor]

Hopefully if we survive this, the FUN, CSR or Shepistan the Former Slavocracy of Astaria will let in some Zorian Norse and Shinto Priests to introduce some proper faith to them.

Zor

[MKSheppard]

Fuck off, Shep. Astaria is now FUN property!

Do you really want to claim that, Shroomy?

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, I have Fingolfin with me (for once ) and I'm rallying aid. I hope my being a non-asshole will prove healthsome.

[Norseman]

I hate doing numbers so I delayed my purchases untill I found someone else who could help me, so here are the increased to my OoB (though some of this is upgrades), bearing in mind a $60B purchasing plan released in 2008 with payments spread over a five year period, an increase to $90B as of 2009, and of course wartime spending in 2010. Intermediate payments handled by the issuance of treasury notes. Vital parts were imported from the IRT and Japanistan. Stas also looked over this, and thought it was feasible given basically wartime budgets.

SU-35BM: 100
SU-30MKI: 140
MiG-35: 83
T-4: 10 *
Phalcon: 4

* Basically Astaria, like many other countries, had a strategic bomber project on the backburner since basically forever. With the troubles in 2008 mass production began, for sufficiently low values of mass.

10 Oyashio SSK converted to AIP
6 Haushio class converted to AIP
2 Atago
45 Type 214 (unsure how large a proportion is still under construction) *

Smaller Type 214 picked because it'd fit into the massive hidden submarine bases blasted into the mountains.

The army has eight more airborne brigades, three armoured divisions, and three mechanized divisions. In addition to more tanks, anti-airforce units etc. However this seems less relevant right now.

Additionally there is of course the Japanistani anti-cruise missile defences that are also installed over strategic sites, such as harbours. It's being rapidly expanded as we speak.

All of this expenditure is of course part of the reason why the Astarian economy is starting to creak in the seams. As I said 5%-8% economic drop in 2010, and the potential of further decline in 2011. This was by no means cheap. There are of course other projects as well, not yet published, that have been fairly expensive. I've run these by a couple of other players too.

[Norseman]

Given that they basically get massive trading privileges, and access to Astarian manpower (for reasons fair and foul) I'd think they would want to claim it. Lots to gain, eh?

[MKSheppard]

Lots to gain, eh?

And lots to lose.

[K. A. Pital]

Shroom, sweat not. Shepistan has lots of chem and bio stuff, granted, but it's means of delivery are rather limited... both in numbers and in quality. Besides, Shepistan will pick a fight with lots of nations...

Yes, yes! Go to war everyone! Destroy each other! Carnage! Destruction! Death! Mwahahahaha!

*sits on the side and carefully observes the unfolding conflict of interests*

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I do operate PzH 2000s and T-80UM in the reserve.

Of course, why do you want a rickety T-72 when there's T-90s (incidentally a T-72UM)?

Would you be willing to sell 150-200 PzH 2000s?

Are you willing to divulge the magic secrets of the T-90, and 50-75 T-90s?

The line for the PzH2000 got revved up recently so I could probably provide you with that much in 1-2 years.

As for the T-90, I guess i have speccs lying around since the T-80UM and the T-90A's main difference is the turbine engine and diesel.

[Lonestar]

Also, it has nothing to do with Erik's persona - more with the fact ttht I overlooked Lonestar's use of future rocket tech. Pres. Stanislav is not omniscient. He merely alerted me to the fact - which I personally found insulting to game space development course. The post was little more than a simple FY gesture on my part.

Oh come on. No offense Stas, but a rocket is a much simpler piece of machinery than, say, an Atomic bomb(which were non-existent when the game started). And scaling up to a Ares I(or something like it) is a not insurmountable engineering tasking, especially when folks start off the game with rockets that can put stuff into orbit.

[PeZook]

Shep, what the hell are you doing?

Astaria is pretty much a Sirnothian province now, which means Shepistan is trying to intervene in internal matters of another country and demanding they cede their territorry to the CSR.

If the FUN posed a similar ultimatum aimed at a Shepistani province, you'd blow your top.

[K. A. Pital]

Oh come on. No offense Stas, but a rocket is a much simpler piece of machinery than, say, an Atomic bomb(which were non-existent when the game started).

That's why the assembly process for a rocket took sometimes years, right? While multigigaton arsenals of crude devices were produced in just 3-4 years, but heavy rockets took decades to perfect? That's something to ponder.

And scaling up to a Ares I(or something like it) is a not insurmountable engineering tasking, especially when folks start off the game with rockets that can put stuff into orbit.

Even an MRBM can "put stuff into orbit" - R-14/R-12 likes, but it's generally below 1 ton. For human flight, rockets with 3 to 6 ton LEO capacity are required.

SRBs like the Shuttle's ones require even more engineering, since large scale SRBs were not reallly perfected here. No ICBMs. No solid rockets, and such...

You are saying "scaling something up" is not an insurmountable problem? In that case I can freely use the Energia rocket and FASTA is worthless. Also, I easily produce R-36 ICBMs in large numbers.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, what the hell are you doing.

Destroying Astaria.

Since Sirnorth acting as intermediary and supposedly in control of the Astarian foreign policy apparatus rejected our demands, a state of war exists between Shepistan and Astaria. And we're determined to make the Astarians live up to their national motto - "Freedom or Death!"

So far, all strikes are limited to Astaria; and we really have no intention of hitting South Veleria, the FUN or Sirnoth. Too much of a chance of the diseases getting out of hand.

I highly suggest you slam down a blockade on anything leaving Astaria and sink all refugee ships leaving Astaria to prevent outbreaks in your own landmasses.

[Lonestar]

That's why the assembly process for a rocket took sometimes years, right? While multigigaton arsenals of crude devices were produced in just 3-4 years, but heavy rockets took decades to perfect? That's something to ponder.

The Americans had a Multigigaton arsenal by 1949?

Even an MRBM can "put stuff into orbit" - R-14/R-12 likes, but it's generally below 1 ton. For human flight, rockets with 3 to 6 ton LEO capacity are required.

SRBs like the Shuttle's ones require even more engineering, since large scale SRBs were not reallly perfected here. No ICBMs. No solid rockets, and such...

You are saying "scaling something up" is not an insurmountable problem? In that case I can freely use the Energia rocket and FASTA is worthless. Also, I easily produce R-36 ICBMs in large numbers.

Fine. Consider the matter dropped.

I am, however, pissed off you decided to pull all this stuff at the 0001-0500 US East Coast time frame. While Shep may give a different impression, some of us(especially those who are fulltime students and employees) do not stay awake 24/7. I think it was some dirty pool you pulled.

[PeZook]

Destroying Astaria.

Jesus christ, they abolished the goddamn slavery!

Besides, that's a really proportional response. Let's kill everyone, including the slaves we care so much about!

And need I remind you that your attack has a very high chance of killing foreign citizens, too?

[MKSheppard]

Jesus christ, they abolished the goddamn slavery!

Yeah, by making them all indentured servants for an indeterminate amount of time. Yeah, that's so abolishing slavery.

Besides, that's a really proportional response. Let's kill everyone, including the slaves we care so much about!

Ah, I believe this is the "How can you save Draka Slaves by burning their eyes out!" argument used in the Drakaverse.

[Shroom Man 777]

Shep, you fucker. They ALREADY HAVE abolished slavery!

[Lonestar]

Shep, you fucker. They ALREADY HAVE abolished slavery!

I wouldn't call the establishment of indentured servitude "abolishment of slavery".