SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread?

[Shroom Man 777]

Because I am such a dirty filthy naughty slutty WHORE for Ace Combat...

The Mushrom Mercenary Aces will get lots of their gear from the Red Technocracy. As you can see in this powerpoint presentation...

[K. A. Pital]

Large? You can order An-225, if you buy one as a pride thing could also move your troops with many AFVs very fast and to any place you want.

Besides having the biggest plane is cool

The price tag of $100 million per unit might be slightly dissuading however... or not

Alternately go for a An-124 which is the largest mass flied cargo plane at $25 million per unt.

[Shroom Man 777]

By the way, what is the status of the Great Conference? Has it been adjourned?

[K. A. Pital]

Has it been adjourned?

So far I'd say give it until tomorrow, and the honoured St.George government would officially close it.

Not good for a conference to end amidst hostilities, too.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hrm... I wonder what the status of the Conference is. Hostilities?

I guess we've used the long "recess" to gather APCS members and discuss matters like Syndromia and Gottland.

[Decue]

Large? You can order An-225, if you buy one as a pride thing could also move your troops with many AFVs very fast and to any place you want.

Besides having the biggest plane is cool

The price tag of $150-200 million per unit might be slightly dissuading however... or not

Bah, I just use my next military budget to buy one, no problem.

[PeZook]

Economists, Shroom, not statisticians

And I'm not sure Stas actually is one, I just remember it from somewhere in the distant past...

As for force composition and maintenance: it really depends on what you mix with what. You probably should standardize along roles - like, for example, you use one machine gun and one assault rifle, one attack chopper, one fighter etc.

So getting Hinds for gunship role and F-22s for air superiority would work just fine, unlike getting Apaches and Hinds (though think of the awesomeness, man!)

Also,guys: any country could simply outsource their maintenance. You don't need to build a spare parts factory for your Su-27s - just buy the parts from Stas!

Any country could probably make their own small arms, too. This is dirt-cheap,and you can convert practically any plant to do this (Guess who makes Polish assault rifles?)

[K. A. Pital]

Bah, I just use my next military budget to buy one, no problem.

Dude, do you know how military buys work? You place order NOW and put it in the FY 2009 NE expenses, get the thing next year so I've started production and expect you to pay up when time cometh!

And I'm not sure Stas actually is one

I work in architectural projects but I have an economic higher education, the Russian BA equivalent.

Yup and small arms are not a problem. Little guns, machine guns, AKs can be made just about anywhere, and stuff like patrol boats can be indigenous if the microstate is willing

[Decue]

Dude, do you know how military buys work? You place order NOW and put it in the FY 2009 NE expenses, get the thing next year so I've started production and expect you to pay up when time cometh!

I don't really know the finer arts of military economics. The closest I came to any such thing was at the end of my service when some of us picking up a bunch of cleaning material (and such things) from the store at the regiment (and that was really close to the local supermarket, shopping cart and everything).

I started expanding the runway of my airbase and started building a new hanger for it so I be damned if I don't have anything to put in it

[K. A. Pital]

Sure. In two weeks ask for your plane and you'll have your Air Force One

[K. A. Pital]

"It was a hellish year" - said one Syndromian citizen - "I went from a financial advisor to a scavenger. But I think we still lucked out pretty good. After all, had our government decided to attack Shepnukistan, they probably wouldn't bother with the whole occupation thing."

Okay, that SIRs is sigged!

[PeZook]

Okay, that SIRs is sigged!

Whoa, my first sigged quote

You have to admit, though...it's true

[Ice]

Also,guys: any country could simply outsource their maintenance. You don't need to build a spare parts factory for your Su-27s - just buy the parts from Stas!

I'm going to chime in real quick here (I'll catch up on everything else later). You have allies. Use them!

For example, if I were to have, say, four different aircraft types, that might be a bit straining, when added to my ships and land equipment, helos and everything. But what if I'm only doing the support for my aircraft types, while the Lonestar Republic is handling support for Naval assets, the People's Republic of Canissia is handling support for my MBTs, IFVs, APCs, and so on? And of course we still have Wilkonia and Tian Xia (as our Tsardoms), along with our two MESS Principalities (Tongdijuana and Republic of Mangka) to assist us.

So while it may be attractive to try and keep all your support infrastructure "in-house" you don't really need to. But that of course depends on just how close you want to make your alliances be. If the MESS, for example, were to do this (we have to discuss it first since the idea just now popped in my head) we'd obviously not be charging each other full price for it (as that would be covered by each others supplies).

This of course is no perfect solution: obviously piracy and naval blockades would be a major problem for my MBT fleet if I suddenly got cut off from Canissia shipping, for example. So you would definately have to protect your Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC) under this system. On the other hand, it can help you field a more diversified, affordable military as well (instead of stocking up on limited F-22s, or more F-15s but with less capability, you can do a mix of both like the US until you can afford otherwise, without unduly straining your industrial infrastructure).

Just a thought you guys.

[PeZook]

Also, some parts can be licensed to be made domestically, essentially splitting the maintenance costs.

For example, your factories can be retooled to make drive trains for your tanks, while gun maintenance are handled by an ally.

Machine plants are really quite versatile in many cases.

But all in all, we shouldn't really go that deep into statistics. I just love them, but my degree perverted me like that.

[K. A. Pital]

Yea, if your ally is willing to incur whooping 4,4 million opcosts per unit of, say, your Raptor force. This has the potential of creating leecher military republics which enter alliances to leech and drain the economies of greater nations which are dedicated to serious research. I mean, if someone asked me if I'd pay for his 100 Raptor force supply that'd not be small money, but a 400 million annual drain. With an MB of 10-30 billion that's not a small part.

It would be just another form of military economic aid.

Like the US and Israel. Propping a militarized like mad nation with a large GDP benefits in this world are unclear however.

P.S. I hope we don't have to do international money balancing beyond simple +/- operations for expenditures. !!! I love numbers but I'll say here too that this could well be overboard.

[Ice]

Yeah. Hey, I said it was quick and dirty.

I guess my point is this: instead of the Shinra Republic trying to support my entire military on 25 billion USD, the MESS as a whole can combine its efforts (with which we have five of the "Tsardoms" and two "Principipalities" by my last count) for a total of about 127 billion USD, with our support and building infrastructure split up as needed.

This is obviously not perfect and rather rough, and I welcome those with more knowledge on such matters to help me smooth it out, but that was my general idea.

EDIT: Basically the MESS is trying to set up as a weird combination of the USA and the EU. We established a common bank and currency, after all. Which, if Stas ever gets around to starting an Alliances thread, we can start to post the details there.

EDIT2: Also, how much x-wrapping is there on the map? While it looks like I'm across the world from Tian Xia and the Lonestar Republic, if I sail west would I find them right there? Or is there a lot of empty ocean?

[Coyote]

Here is my Objective Interim OOB, still in progress --for example, I still don't have my Marines, or Border Patrol/Coast Guard, done.

The People's Republic of Canissia:


Located on a tropical paradise world a few light-years from Earth, the People's Republic of Canissia --named for Canis Latrans, the Coyote, the most adaptive and survivalist-minded member of the mammal kingdom-- emerges as a upper-level world power.

According to the OP, I get this: Postcount 5,001-20,000; Senators and mods minimum- a "Tsardom" of 500,000 square kilometers and a population of around 30 million at First World social and economuic living standards.


Total Land Area, 500,000 square kilometers:
This makes Canissia about the size of Spain (504,030 sq.Km).

Population: 30 million first world
Spain, by comparison, has 45,200,737 and a population density of 90 people per square kilometer. So we're comfy.


PRESIDENT: His Majesty, King Arik Coyotus-I
GOVERNMENT: Constitutional Monarchy
GOVERNING BODY: The Royal Parliament
ALLIANCES: The MESS
The MESS alliance is a common economic, military, and diplomatic pool. Included are joint research and defense projects, security pacts, scientific endeavors, student exchange programs and extradition treaties. Free trade, joint peacekeeping and inter-jurisdictional drug interdiction efforts are among some of the typical efforts shared by the MESS.



MONEY:
The basic unit of money is the Casey, which stands for KC or kilocalorie. It is a unit of value based on 1000 calories worth of work produced.

1 Casey =
5 Pente =
10 Decca =
20 Dua
There are no fucking pennies.



FUEL PRODUCTION:
Power on Canissia is supplied by nuclear power, with limited wind, solar, geothermal and wave-motion where possible.
Fuel for vehicles is provided by algae-vat grown biodiesel with as limited infusion of petroleum products as possible.


FUEL PHILOSOPHY:
Canissia tries to limit petroleum product usage as much as possible, and tries to use plant-fiber "plastics" where possible. Home Heating will use geothermal, solar, and natural gas where applicable. The public power grid will draw from wind, solar, and wave-motion devices, as well as a nuclear power grid that blankets the island.


PUBLIC TRANSIT:
Public Transit is partially subsidized, and partially funded through riders. High-speed bullet trains, Maglev style, connect most cities. Within cities, a combination of light rail/subways, natural gas and electric taxis (with overnight plug-in stations) are the norm. Personal vehicles are authorized but fuel-responsible versions are primarily encouraged, with diesel-electric plug-in hybrids being the norm. Motorcycles and scooters are highly recommended as well. Air travel by fixed-wing aircraft is available, but expensive. Travel by airship, on the othe rhand, is cheap-- and with a nation about the size of Spain, practical. Airships are enhanced with solar panels on top to help with 'hotel load' (ie, personal electronics, etc). A typical Royal Canissian Skyliner.


FOOD PHILOSOPHY:
Canissia tries to grow as much of its own food as possible, however, the extreme amount of rangeland needed for beef production makes beef a rare, expensive luxury item. Most meat is provided by lamb and poultry. In deference to Baron-Lord Coyotus's personal religious parctices, pork production is not had on Canissia, however, it may be imported from elsewhere. Healthy eating with food grown as organically as possible within reason is encouraged, and the use of corn syrup is strictly prohibited.


EDUCATION:
Kindergarten programs are encouraged but not mandatory; however, government-sponsored daycare programs have Kindergarten curriculums as part of their mandate. Emphasis is placed on problem-solving, encouraging the application of dynamic thinking and critical analysis. While science, math, and engineering education in Canissia is considered first-rate, programs for the arts and humanities (especially languages) are also emphasised. School from 1st through 12th grade is mandatory and taxpayer-funded. College/VoTec and Uniersity study is subsidized.


SOCIALIZATION:
All Canissian citizens are required to perform some sort of National Service. The military is encouraged but not mandatory, and National Service can be fulfilled in other ways as well, such as hospital, sanitation, or agricultural work.


SPORTS:
Sports are encouraged for physical fitness and team-building in schools. Sports teams on Canissia are semi-professionals who largely volunteer their time. A cap is placed on the amont of money a sports star can make from endorsements, so stars cannot become 'owned' by any one company.


HEALTH CARE:
Health Care is nationalized. Business get tax breaks for contributing extra to the health care system, or for contributing machinery wehere applicable or sponsoring expensive research. A cap is placed on medical malpractice claims.


DRUG POLICY:
The consumption of 'natural' drugs (ie, marijuana, mushrooms) is legal so long as one doe snot drive or operate machinery, similar to penalties for drinking alcohol. Non-natural or 'refined' drugs are considered a public health hazard and prosecuted by penalty of law. Drug offenders, however, go to special 'drug prisons' rather than normal prisons where they are detoxed and used for work on government projects such as making liscenc eplates, uniforms, hospital bedding, etc.


PRISON SYSTEM:
Incareration for crimes is done on a 'sliding scale' of severity relevant to the nature of the crime. Time can be 'modified' depending on if (and how) a weapon was used in the comission of a crime. Criminals are lumped together by crime type and kept largely confined to two to a cell wherever possible. Labor for government projects is provided, offering a chance for training in useful endeavors when released.

The death penalty exists, but is used very sparingly, and only for the most heinous of crimes. For most violent or high-risk offenders, life in prison is preferred.


========================================================================================================

ARMED FORCES OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CANISSIA:
Canissian military philosophy is primarily defensive, with power-projection emphasis placed on quick, highly mobile intervention as needed. Canissia prefers not to engage in long, protracted wars or extended peacekeeper ops unless joining larger multi-national coalitions with agreed-upon goals. Canissian personnel deployed to combat theaters are expected to adhere to the rules of war and conduct, however, if fired upon, they are authorized to fire back.


Military: 400,000 personnel
In the Military Vehicles categories, military vehicles listed will be given by a class-- ie, "tanks" or "self-propelled gun". These will be followed by a link to a comperable vehicle. These vehicles are Wikipedia references and are not from the same country or even the same era. The vehicle linked to is not the exact vehicle being used by the Canissian armed forces, but rather a vehicle that inspires or resembles the PRC vehicle.

ALL government fleet vehicles in use in the People's Republic of Canissia are plug-in biodiesel-electric hybrids. Tracked vehicles all use rubberized "stretchy" tracks instead of the usual metal rod-and-pin style tracks. These modifications are to provide better fuel economy as well as limited stealth.


ARMY:
Divisions made up of 15,000 personnel, and divided into Heavy, Medium, and Airmobile classes.

HEAVY DIVISIONS:
2 Tank Brigades Leopard-II-type.
1 Infantry Brigade Puma IFV-type.
1 Rocket Artillery (MLRS) Battalion MLRS-type.
1 Self-Propelled Gun (SPG) Battalion M109 Paladin-type.
1 Anti-Aircraft (AAA) Battalion: 9K22 Tunguska-type.
1 Combat Support Battalion (MPs, Engineers)
Additional logistical & administrative support, etc.

MEDIUM DIVISIONS:
1 Heavy Armor Brigade Rooikat-type.
1 Recon Armor Brigade EE-9 Cascavel-type.
1 Infantry Brigade BTR-90-type.
1 Rocket Artillery (MLRS) Battalion RM-70-type.
1 Self-Propelled Gun (SPG) Battalion G6-type.
1 Anti-Aircraft (AAA) Battalion M1097 Avenger system on Rooikat hull.
1 Combat Support Battalion (MPs, Engineers)
Additional logistical & administrative support, etc.

AIRMOBILE ("LIGHT") DIVISIONS:
1 Tank Brigade M8 Buford-type
2 Infantry Brigades (Can be "FAV" equipped.
1 Special Weapons (ATGM) Infantry Brigade (May be FAV equipped)
1 Special Weapons (MPAA) Infantry Brigade (May be FAV equipped)
1 'Mountain Gun' Battalion (mortars & towed howitzers)
1 Combat Support Battalion (MPs, Engineers)
Additional logistical & administrative support, etc.

ARMY AIR CORPS:
The army of the People's Republic of Canissia has its own air arm.
4 Squadrons A-10 Thunderbolt-II-type.
4 Squadrons SuperHind Mk.IV
4 Squadrons CH-53E Super Stallion-type.
4 Squadrons c-130 hERCULESE TYPE.
6 AC-130 Spectre Gunships
2 Squadrons C-17 Globemaster-III type.


ARMY WEAPONS:
The main rifle issued to the PRC Army is a modified version of the FN SCAR. The modification in question is, primarily, producing it in 6.8 mm, which is used as the Universal Service Round (smallarms/rifle).
For SubMachine Guns the UMP-45 is used.
Pistols are the Colt .45.
Shotguns are the Mossberg-590

Man-Portable AntiTank systems:
RPG-29 type used for general Infantry squads.
FGM-148 Jevelin-type for dedicated ATGM Infantry teams.


ARMY UNIFORMS:
Camouflage will be a faded-edged Flecktarn type design.
Helmets: MICH TC-2000 ("New Kevlar") style


ARMY UTILITY VEHICLES:
Light Jeep: LandRover Wolf-type.
Cargo Truck: Alvis Stalwart-type.
Light Armored: GAZ-3937-type.
Extreme Heavy Transport: MAZ-543-type.

======================================================================================

AIR FORCE:
The Air Force uses the same basic equipment as the Army, with regards to trucks, jeeps, etc. Air Force security police use a variation of the M-1117 Armored Car for base security & Patrol. Air Force persinnek are issued the Colt .45 sidearm, except for Security Police and other field-dep[loyed troops, who get the UMP-45 submachine gun.
Air Force breakdown of initial equipment is thus:

Squadron: 12 Aircraft
Air Regiment: 50 aircraft.
4 Squadrons (48 aircraft)
1 AWAC/JSTARS
1 Tanker


Air Superiority Fighters:
3 Fighter Air Regiments equipped with F-22 Raptor-class planes.
1 will typically be assigned CAP
1 will be training
1 will be on standby, doing training, maintenance, etc as available.

Tactical Bombing:
1 Tactical Bombing Regiment equipped with FB-22 Raptor-class.
This is available for prescision bombing within refuel range.

Strategic Bombing:
Long-range strategic bombing will be performed by the B-47 StratoWolf, a Canissian take on the X-47 Pegasus prototype.
2 Air Regiments planned.

Strategic Airlift & Special Support:
1 Strategic Airlift Air Regiment:
2 Squadrons of C-5 Galaxy type aircraft.
2 Squadrons of C-17 Globemaster-III type aircraft.
6 KC-10 type fueler.
6 E-10/MC2A-type C3I aircraft.
6 Cargo Zeppelins


Tactical Airlift & Special Support:
1 Tactical Support Air Regiment[/u]:
2 Squadrons of C-14 STOL class.
2 Squadrons of IL-76 class.


Training:
1 Training Squadron flying a BAE Hawk-type variant.


======================================================================================


NAVY:
The Canissian navy is primarily concerned with regional power projection and home-littoral defense. To these ends, the Navy relies on smaller, faster ships that pack more punch and are willing to sacrifice operating range to this end. The Navy has short-deck carriers rather than larger CVNs, however, Canissian Cruisers and larger ships are nuclear powered. There are also Navy SEALs for special ops: 60 SEALS in total.


CAPITOL WARSHIPS:
10 Arleigh Burke-class Destroyers
50 Halifax-Class Frigates
50 Pegasus-class Hydrofoils (10 Areligh-Burkes sacrificed)
20 Victoria type SSKs (1 modified for SEAL use).


Naval Air Arm:
The Naval Air Arm is relatively small, and short-legged in many respects. Canissian doctrine is to avoid large, protracted carrier-standoff wars and concentrate on littoral assault and landing, augmented by cruise missiles as much as possible. While the Canissian Navy has only recently laid th ehulls for Carriers, most Marine and Navy Aviation is based at shared Air Force facilities for now, and concentrates on coastal patrol.

Squadrons are organized along Air Force style organization.
1 Navy Air Regiment = 4 Squadrons + support.

Squadron: 12 Aircraft
Air Regiment: 50 aircraft
3 Fighter Squadrons (36 aircraft), F-35B V/STOL-class.
1 Tac Bomber Squadron (12 aircraft), EA-6 Prowler-class.
1 AWAC/JSTARS, E2 HawkEye-class.
1 Tanker, HawkEye tanker modified-class.


Land-Based Maritime/ASW Patrol:
1 Squadron P3-Orion-class.
2 Squadrons of Anti-sub dirigibles with depth charges.


UAVs:
UAVs are very common for maritime patrol and especially ASW and reconaissance work. Nearly every ship will have at least 1 UAV, even if it is only a small fold-up version, for limited over-the-horizon scouting and ASW. The following are common UAVs in service:
UAVs for Corvette-class and smaller: DragonEye-class.
UAVs for Frigate-classes: ScanEagle-class.
UAVs for Cruiser-classes: MQ-9 Reaper-class.
UAVs for ASW (Frigates & larger):Fire Scout-class.

UAVs for limited aerial combat: FD-45 "Dragonette"-class.
The Navy is the primary research branch for UAVs, with the Air Force in a supporting role.


NAVAL BUILDING PROJECTS: The following are being built--
2 Triton-class Cruiser-Carriers (Kiev-class variants)
4 Neptune-class Assault Carriers (Wasp-class variants)
10 Aegis- class Cruisers (Ticonderoga blk.-II-class variants)
50 Anuket-class Cruise Missile Frigates (Nanuchka-class variants)

======================================================================================

[Ice]

Coyote

First of all, unless you intend to hold legislative sessions aboard your Navy, it's capital, not capitol warships.

Second: wrong thread ya doof. Post that in the References thread.

[K. A. Pital]

Which, if Stas ever gets around to starting an Alliances thread, we can start to post the details there.

I will as soon as this thread's title is changed to "General Comments" trust me.

Also, how much x-wrapping is there on the map?

Lots of empty ocean Earthlike body, but very small nations the 500 km scale shows that the SD Nations currently take up an area around the continent of Africa in scale, maybe not even that.

Here is my Objective Interim OOB, still in progress

Post to Reference and dont be shy. Most if not all OOBs here are in progress in fact the GAME is in progress

[RogueIce]

Which, if Stas ever gets around to starting an Alliances thread, we can start to post the details there.

I will as soon as this thread's title is changed to "General Comments" trust me.

Well since Crossroads isn't doing it, I felt we had to appeal to a Higher Authority. Which in this case means I'll settle for sending Mr. Bean a PM.

Lots of empty ocean Earthlike body, but very small nations the 500 km scale shows that the SD Nations currently take up an area around the continent of Africa in scale, maybe not even that.

Ah well. At least I won't have to dodge islands if I choose to sail west.

Post to Reference and dont be shy. Most if not all OOBs here are in progress in fact the GAME is in progress

Quite. I haven't even gotten around to posting mine yet. Because of the discussion last night, I had to scrap my F-35 fleet.

[K. A. Pital]

Because of the discussion last night, I had to scrap my F-35 fleet.

I scrapped my T-4 MS 200 But it was done for the greater good.

Now small states actually buy arms from us which is both fun and realistic.

Which in this case means I'll settle for sending Mr. Bean a PM.

Thanks. I should've probably done it myself but then it's good when the Game administers itself... i'll be kinda "hybernating" towards week's end

P.S. Also how is that you're Ice and RogueIce? *confused* is that... what? Twin brother?

[Coyote]

Coyote

First of all, unless you intend to hold legislative sessions aboard your Navy, it's capital, not capitol warships.

Now that's just not right. I always see "CapitAl" as a reference to that class of guys that Karl Marx was carping about.

Second: wrong thread ya doof. Post that in the References thread.

But... but... it says "OOB" thread. Order Of Battle. The threads, I tell you, are misnamed, they are!

[RogueIce]

But... but... it says "OOB" thread. Order Of Battle. The threads, I tell you, are misnamed, they are!

I know. We're working on that. In the meantime, change your currency and support the economic goals of the MESS.

[K. A. Pital]

I've now found the communication among the MESS is lacking severely. The whole 1st GC of Nations flew over them and now new members come and the Rules of Tech again are sacked...

[RogueIce]

I've now found the communication among the MESS is lacking severely. The whole 1st GC of Nations flew over them and now new members come and the Rules of Tech again are sacked...

Yeah. I think I'll go post in the Mess about some of these issues.

As to Ice and RogueIce, long story. Short version is, I wound up with a (legal enough) sockpuppet.