SDNWorld Redux - Casting Call & Planning MK II

[Coyote]

It's a fourth-generation light attack plane, really. Maybe he mistyped and meant Su-35?

Yeah, I think that may have been what I was thinking of.. darn it.


As for my Marine Expeditionary Force, this is the structure I used... it is modified considerably from the sample detailed in Wikipedia. I changed the Wikipedia entry to basically cram as many weapons systems onto LAV-25 chassis as I could to simplify maintenance. I also ditched towed Howitzers for truck-based MLRS systems:

MARINE EXPEDITIONARY UNIT:
Approximately 2,200 Marines total (including vehicles crews, mechanics, riflemen, etc).

VEHICLES & WEAPONS SYSTEMS:
4 Merkava-IV Heavy Tanks
20 LAV-25
6 LAV-AT TOW
6 LAV-ADA w/M6 Linebacker style turret
4 HIMARS (rocket arty) on Mungo ESV
MAN-PORTED SYSTEMS:
8 M252 81mm mortar (carried in LAV)
8 FGM-148 Javelin ATGM
8 FIM-92 Stinger MANPADS
8 MPOCS (Man-Portable Obstacle Clearing Systems: "MICLIC Lite")

SUPPORT GEAR:
60 HUMVEE utility vehicles
30 Mungo ESV Medium trucks
4 Logistics Vehicle System (MK48A1 + Rear Unit Articulated HEMMT)
3 D7 bulldozer (w/light armor & AC unit)
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck
4 TRAM 644E Backhoe Tractor
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift
2 Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Unit
1 LMT 3000 water purification unit
7 500 gallon water containers

AIR UNIT:
8 AV-8B Harrier attack aircraft
4 KA-50/2 Erdogan style "Black Shark" attack helicopters
12 MH-60 KnightHawk helicopters
2 CH-53K Sea Stallion helicopters
3 LCAC landers

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Hmm, I'm also confused as to what constitutes a "Aviation, Tactical Strike (fighter planes for close-air support, no real lift capacity): 5 points" too. Are you referring to CAS aircraft or?

[PeZook]

I suggest the FUN signed a treaty somewhere in the 1980s standardizing:

1) Tanks to the Leo II armed with the 120mm gun:

2) Fighter airplanes to the Typhoon or Gripen

3) Light attack/bombers to the F-15, maybe the Su-25? A better proposal?

4) Assault rifles to the G36

5) Heavy artillery to the Panzehaubitze 2000

6) Standard FUN Light Mortars of some sort

7) A GPMG: the MG-42 derivative MG-3

Standard air-to-air missiles: I suggest American or Russian stuff

9) Standard anti-ship missilies

10) Fuel nozzles on air tankers, or standard air tankers outright

11) Standard anti-air systems: close-in, medium ranged and heavy. I don't have a suggestion

[Coyote]

Hmm, I'm also confused as to what constitutes a "Aviation, Tactical Strike (fighter planes for close-air support, no real lift capacity): 5 points" too. Are you referring to CAS aircraft or?

Yup. A-10s, A-1 Skyraiders, etc. It's any fixed-wing fighter used for close-air support, and cannot be used for carrying troops.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Hmm, I'm also confused as to what constitutes a "Aviation, Tactical Strike (fighter planes for close-air support, no real lift capacity): 5 points" too. Are you referring to CAS aircraft or?

Yup. A-10s, A-1 Skyraiders, etc. It's any fixed-wing fighter used for close-air support, and cannot be used for carrying troops.

Su-39 (latest Su-25 variant) included? Alright, I'll go assemble a divisional force structure and then multiply.

How many points does your Marine force constitute and what's the brigade breakdown? Also, I remember Beowulf was throwing in a force structure consisting of 30 tanks. I take it your removed everything to LAVs?

Also, I was just checking your OOB, and I noticed you had your Attack Helicopter brigades at 8 points each. Working on the calcs, you are having a professional service + professional equipment modifier or? Trying to work out a Guards version.

[Coyote]

I suggest the FUN signed a treaty somewhere in the 1980s standardizing:

1) Tanks to the Leo II armed with the 120mm gun:

Good choice. There's also a Swedesh attempt at a jack-of-all-trades track vehicle called the Combat Vehicle 90 or CV90 Stridsfordon (check it out in Wiki)

2) Fighter airplanes to the Typhoon or Gripen

Gripen is good; I'm using Typhoons, but we get along so we can double up. There's also a Japanese version of the F-16 called the F2.

4) Assault rifles to the G36

Good choice; the Swedish AK-5 also looks sweet.

6) Standard FUN Light Mortars of some sort

Look up the M252 mortar in Wiki, it's pretty good.

Standard air-to-air missiles: I suggest American or Russian stuff

There's also a good European missile being produced, I think it's the "Meteor".

11) Standard anti-air systems: close-in, medium ranged and heavy. I don't have a suggestion

The US Stinger anti-aircraft missile can come on a turret mount; look up the M1079 Avenger. There's also a heavy armored turret launcher, look up the M6 Linebacker. I'm using both, in some cases fitting "Linebacker" and "Avenger" style turrets to different vehicle chassis instead of HUMVEES and Bradleys. I also mout the very capable M1 "Tunguska" Russian anti-aircraft turret on a more capable chassis instead of the worn out old PT-76 chassis they use.

[PeZook]

Good choice. There's also a Swedesh attempt at a jack-of-all-trades track vehicle called the Combat Vehicle 90 or CV90 Stridsfordon (check it out in Wiki)

This looks good an an APC/recon track. But I can't evaluate it, really

Gripen is good; I'm using Typhoons, but we get along so we can double up. There's also a Japanese version of the F-16 called the F2.

Typhoons count as 4.5th gen, right? They're not exactly F-22s...

Good choice; the Swedish AK-5 also looks sweet.

I do love how the AK looks in general, so I'd gladly use some 5.56 variant of one like the Beryl ; But this would unnecessarily complicate logistics. So either all-G36, all AK-5, all-Beryl use would be best, since then everybody gets the same cleaning kit, the same spare parts, units can share between countries, etc.

Standardizing the assault rifle seems to remove the most headaches after armored vehicles, really

The US Stinger anti-aircraft missile can come on a turret mount; look up the M1079 Avenger. There's also a heavy armored turret launcher, look up the M6 Linebacker. I'm using both, in some cases fitting "Linebacker" and "Avenger" style turrets to different vehicle chassis instead of HUMVEES and Bradleys. I also mout the very capable M1 "Tunguska" Russian anti-aircraft turret on a more capable chassis instead of the worn out old PT-76 chassis they use.

I was thinking the Loara SHORAD mounting Stingers and twin radar-guided 20mm cannons for close-air defence - it's supposed to be really good, but I don't know if it lives up to the hype.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Gripen is good; I'm using Typhoons, but we get along so we can double up. There's also a Japanese version of the F-16 called the F2.

I'm still a bit torn between deploying F-15Es all the way for air defence or go with a Typhoon or Rafale. And if it's a Typhoon, I'd go with the latest bloc with AESA radar (which isn't out yet).

[Coyote]

Su-39 (latest Su-25 variant) included? Alright, I'll go assemble a divisional force structure and then multiply.

Today, many fighters are being built in sub-variants that make them tectical strike fighter-bombers as well-- the F-15 becomes the F-15 Strike Eagle tactical bomber... so, yeah, in Wiki look up any fighter and look for "variants" about midway through and you'll probably find a fighter-bomber version for most any fighter.

How many points does your Marine force constitute and what's the brigade breakdown?

Bear in mind I'm an Army guy in real life, so I just made my Marines bare-bones. They are really just Naval Infantry (ie, not too far removed from 'Sailors With Guns') and I don't have a real "brigade" structure for them. You can use the regular Brigade system and just make sure everything (or almost everything) is either amphibious, or has a landing craft of some sort for it.

I gave my MEUs a flat point rate of 50 points, IIRC, mostly because of the aircraft. Take a look at that MEU and realize-- it only has ONE TANK PLATOON entirely, and a couple companies' worth of armored vehicles, mostly thin-skin LAVs that aren't even really "Infantry Fighting Vehicles", more like "Infantry Mobility Providers".. . Most of a MEU's expense comes from the aircraft.

Also, I remember Beowulf was throwing in a force structure consisting of 30 tanks. I take it your removed everything to LAVs?

Beowulf has a different philosophy on the setup, neither is any better or worse, it's just what you want your MEU to be capable of. I wanted a force that could be quickly taken ashore, relying heavily on naval support for artillery, and get some shooting units on a beach so that my Army Roll-on/Roll-off ships can come in and delivery heavier vehicles.

I tried to make most of my combat vehicles LAV-25s mostly just to make my maintenance tail more streamlined. I do have 4 tanks in my MEU, but most of their firepower will be delivered by CAS, helos, and Navy Air.

It is also Canissian combat philosophy to never undertake a large-scale assault without air superiority and closely-coordinated Army Airborne landings in the immediate rear. Hence, I get away with a tiny, cheap MEU.

Also, I was just checking your OOB, and I noticed you had your Attack Helicopter brigades at 8 points each. Working on the calcs, you are having a professional service + professional equipment modifier or? Trying to work out a Guards version.

I believe I had "Training: Professional; Kit: Elite" for most of my stuff. I have a very expensive military. A Guards attack helo unit would be expensive, especially if you go with Elite equipment... but they'd basically be your Top Gun chopper boys.

[Coyote]

Good choice. There's also a Swedesh attempt at a jack-of-all-trades track vehicle called the Combat Vehicle 90 or CV90 Stridsfordon (check it out in Wiki)

This looks good an an APC/recon track. But I can't evaluate it, really

It looked good to me-- I considered using it, actually. It's primary value seems to be how adaptable it is to all sorts of add-on turrets for air-defense, anti-tank, command, etc. I'd choose something heavier to use as a real tank (the Leo-II already mentioned) and use that as a chassis for "everything else"-- but that's just me. Nice thing about it, no one else has mentioned having one yet...

Typhoons count as 4.5th gen, right? They're not exactly F-22s...

Typhoons are technically 4.5-Gen, but I counted them as 4th-Gen simply to keep things from being more difficult than they already are.

[Coyote]

Gripen is good; I'm using Typhoons, but we get along so we can double up. There's also a Japanese version of the F-16 called the F2.

I'm still a bit torn between deploying F-15Es all the way for air defence or go with a Typhoon or Rafale. And if it's a Typhoon, I'd go with the latest bloc with AESA radar (which isn't out yet).

The Rafale rocks. I seriously, seriously considered using an all-Rafale force since they already have carrier versions, etc. I still think it may have been a good idea, but I've made my choice with a mixed Typhoon/F-18E air and naval air force, with A-10 and AV8 variants for Army and Marines.

[Coyote]

Note: Fixed the "Su-25 to Su-35" in the Build-Your-Own Air Force section.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Rafale rocks. I seriously, seriously considered using an all-Rafale force since they already have carrier versions, etc. I still think it may have been a good idea, but I've made my choice with a mixed Typhoon/F-18E air and naval air force, with A-10 and AV8 variants for Army and Marines.

The F/A-18E/F aircraft is a better choice for the navy I would think. And it can also be used for navy air refueling, which I consider a big plus.

I would quite likely go with F-15Es for the most part for air superiority, along with Eurofighter Typhoons I think.

[Coyote]

The F/A-18E/F aircraft is a better choice for the navy I would think. And it can also be used for navy air refueling, which I consider a big plus.

Yeah, but every F-18 tasked to buddy refueling is one less F-18 for combat... or at least is operating at reduced payload (fuel pods instead of munitions). Better to go with dedicated fuelers.

Yeah, though, I went with FA-18Es for Navy because they have, indeed, been made into pretty good carrier based birds.

I would quite likely go with F-15Es for the most part for air superiority, along with Eurofighter Typhoons I think.

Good mix. Just make sure to reinforce the airframes on those F-15s so the cockpits don't shear off!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I believe I had "Training: Professional; Kit: Elite" for most of my stuff. I have a very expensive military. A Guards attack helo unit would be expensive, especially if you go with Elite equipment... but they'd basically be your Top Gun chopper boys.

Well, Attack Heli with Professional Training and Elite kit is 3 + 2 + 4 = 9 points.

[Setzer]

I suggest the FUN signed a treaty somewhere in the 1980s standardizing:

1) Tanks to the Leo II armed with the 120mm gun:

This is fine for me. After browsing Wikipedia, I figure the Leopard 2A4 will serve my purpose.

2) Fighter airplanes to the Typhoon or Gripen

I was using F-4s. I needed something carrier capable, and using a land variant also simplified costs. I can retire them and upgrade to the Typhoon as time goes by, so I'm okay with that.

3) Light attack/bombers to the F-15, maybe the Su-25? A better proposal?

Go with the Su-25. IIRC, a carrier version exists, so the fleet can give CAS to an amphibious attack.

4) Assault rifles to the G36

Sure, no problem.

5) Heavy artillery to the Panzehaubitze 2000

That's OK. Would the MLRS or HIMARS design be used as well?

6) Standard FUN Light Mortars of some sort

How does 81mm and 120mm sound? Just make the rounds interchangeable, and the mortar itself can be manufactured by whoever uses them.

7) A GPMG: the MG-42 derivative MG-3

How the fuck could I say no to this?

Standard air-to-air missiles: I suggest American or Russian stuff

The Russians seem to have a wider range of equipment for air defense, so let's use their stuff. Besides, the ZSU-23-4 can be killer in cities, so I hear.

9) Standard anti-ship missilies

Sure, once we figure out a design. Maybe American AShMs? Harpoon has a pretty good reputation.

10) Fuel nozzles on air tankers, or standard air tankers outright

Sure, once we figure out a design.

11) Standard anti-air systems: close-in, medium ranged and heavy. I don't have a suggestion

Again, maybe something Russian.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Just a note: Stas once sold me some heavy supersonic shore defence anti-ship missiles (I believe the Yakhont). I won't be having them on my initial OOB, but I will definitely get around the acquire them. I have a huge shopping list (not least, a fleet enlargement is in order)

By the way, Coyote, does your Aviation Heliborne Assault include only the equipment or both troops + helis?

[Shroom Man 777]

I suggest the FUN signed a treaty somewhere in the 1980s standardizing:

1) Tanks to the Leo II armed with the 120mm gun:

Mmm... most Western MBTs are very similar and are generally on the same tier. I was looking to use Challenger 2s, but Leo IIs are pretty good - so, yeah.



The Mushroom Military can paint them orange and roll them into Pride Parades to show their Support for LGBT rights!

2) Fighter airplanes to the Typhoon or Gripen

I will be supplementing this with a small amount of 5th generation F-22s, if no one minds.

3) Light attack/bombers to the F-15, maybe the Su-25? A better proposal?

Hrm... F-15s. So I can continue with my old SDN World 1 F-15 ACTIVE program

4) Assault rifles to the G36

The G36 is unbelievably sexy, and so I'm cool with that. AK-lookalikes are also cool, especially with the wood.

5) Heavy artillery to the Panzehaubitze 2000

That's an impressive tank. Such a big cannon... firing again and again and again

6) Standard FUN Light Mortars of some sort

7) A GPMG: the MG-42 derivative MG-3

MG-42s are always awesome! *dons stalhelm*

Standard air-to-air missiles: I suggest American or Russian stuff

9) Standard anti-ship missilies

Can we get Shep to roleplay weapons contractors (who are independent of Shepistan)?

10) Fuel nozzles on air tankers, or standard air tankers outright

11) Standard anti-air systems: close-in, medium ranged and heavy. I don't have a suggestion

We'll have to develop THEL!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think I will operate PhZ2000 and that Russian double barrel 152mm but with 155mm instead.

[Raj Ahten]

Even though I'm not in FUN, might I suggest for your rifles you just adopt something similiar to the STANAG mandated magizines NATO uses? Basically it is a standard that says all the various rifles of the countries can use the same M-16 type magizines. There are a lot of rifles to choose from, if people want a different look for their forces for instance.

[DarthShady]

I suggest the FUN signed a treaty somewhere in the 1980s standardizing:

-snip-

I'll agree to this if the majority decides that it shall be implemented but keep in mind that I want my awesome Russian toys.

[phongn]

Er, for you guys thinking of an alliance, it's less important that you have identical equipment, only interoperable equipment. Inevitably you're going to have different requirements and different budgets leading to different weapon systems. Standardizing on things like common ammunition, datalinks, etc. would be rather more useful.

[CmdrWilkens]

SUPPORT GEAR:
60 HUMVEE utility vehicles
30 Mungo ESV Medium trucks
4 Logistics Vehicle System (MK48A1 + Rear Unit Articulated HEMMT)
3 D7 bulldozer (w/light armor & AC unit)
1 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement dump truck
4 TRAM 644E Backhoe Tractor
2 TX51-19M Rough Terrain Forklift

Small notes the USMC LVS is different from the HEMTT, it ustilizes the -14, -15, -16, -17 and -18 RPUs rather than the HEMMT system for carrying either flat cargo, wrecker setup, fifh wheel (with 870 trailer), crane loaded cargo, or bridge pieces respectively. The HEMTT is a single continuous unit without the FPU/RPU disconnect.iIf you are going authentic USMC then stick with the 48-xx steup though it does have some extra logistical tail in terms of extra mechanics to do switchouts on the RPUs.

The 644E Tramis actually a front loader with a forklift attahment. The bucket is a roughly 5 cubic yd device while the forks are rated at 15lbs (though the boom is, oddly enough, rated at only 10k).

If you want a backhoe, and it would be useful to have, then I would go with the 420D which is the current unit used by most Engineer Support Companies.

[Vohu Manah]

Old Continent:
Sovereignty of Shroomainia(Shroom Man 777)[Island]
II Republic of Pezookia (PeZook)
Khitan(Mr. Bean)
United Shadow Socialist Republic(DarthShady)
The Byzantine Empire(Fingolfin_Noldor)
United Republics of Anticlere and Cybiades(Pollux)
Republic of Canissia(Coyote)
Unknown Country(Stas Bush)
Japanistan(Sea Skimmer)
Arab NPC State or States
Breakaway NPC Shadow State

...

Current Location Unknown
Kingdom of Serenity(Grand Moff Yenchin)
Republic of Cialan(Bluewolf)
Unknown Country[Possibly Zoria](Zor)
The Most Serene Republic of Ninhursag(Vohu Manah)
The Duchy of Langley(Shinn Langley Soryu)
Incorporated Republic of Tonkin(phongn)[Possible Island]

I do believe someone claimed a map with a large chunk of the Middle East (I believe specifically Syria, Israel, Jordan and Turkey) as their map. It would make sense for me to be off the coast of that person. I do believe, but may be mistaken, that they were on the Old Continent.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I do believe someone claimed a map with a large chunk of the Middle East (I believe specifically Syria, Israel, Jordan and Turkey) as their map. It would make sense for me to be off the coast of that person. I do believe, but may be mistaken, that they were on the Old Continent.

Yes, a good chunk of Old Continent includes Egypt, Arabia, Syria. I don't think I want to extend all the way to Mesopotamia, so I will leave it as that.