SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Thanas]

*Bah, nevermind*. We can always get to that when it comes to IC.

[Norade]

Ah, well then it couldn't make that trip, but still has excess range.

Yeah, mine might win in calmer seas and your would be at advantage in worse seas. It's a trade off in design goals.

Yeah, but yours only has about 65% of the survivability of mine - at any sea condition.

I was hoping my larger shells might help make the difference in punching through at slightly longer range and making up some difference by scoring slightly earlier damaging hits. After all the ship taking the first major hit is behind and if I can score a few more penetrating hits earlier in battles that culd save me from eating shells in the first place.

[Thanas]

I am quite satisfied. Because playing around with the hull a bit gave me another +1 18inch hit survivability, the same guns as you and a higher top speed. And it is still the excellent seaboat.

Hooray for german design.

That said, I think I have enough of this barrel-waving contest. Back to the drawing board.

[Beowulf]

Your displacement is vastly over limit. I mean, mine is about 590t over the limit, yours is over 1313t over the limit.

Wait, which displacement are we using for the limit? Light, standard, or normal? I'm inclined to say that light or standard are better representative as to the cost of the ship, as opposed to the cost of the fuel used to run the ship.

[Ma Deuce]

If we're going to use tonnage for ship size limits then I strongly urge we use Standard displacement (fully equipped, loaded and crewed, except for fuel and reserve feedwater) as the limit, for the same reason it was used in the WNT: Navies that need ships with bigger fuel bunkers to fulfill their obligations (like Britain or Cascadia) would otherwise be forced to sacrifice armor, speed and/or firepower compared to those who don't have to stray far from their home base.

[K. A. Pital]

I have also used standard displacement, though it's rather irrelevant as my Navy's quite small enough as it is and would fit NF 3 even under full displacement I think.

[Steve]

Will repost soon, I think we'll discover 1,000-ton destroyers ten years before the US did.

[Thanas]

Well, if we are using standard tons - alright, that gives me a few more tons.

[K. A. Pital]

Now, the tweaked USSR Navy capship table. Includes carrier construction plans, as one can see. I mean, letting that huge Empress Maria hulk to just rot away would be unacceptable.

Did not include dispatch ships, but did include training ships (most of the pre-dreadnaught cruisers). Only the most modern pre-dreadnaught generation serves as actual ships, the rest are training. Some older ones are converted to block-floating batteries not to leave harbor, and thus not listed.

Half of my navy's larger combatants tonnage are pre-dreadnaughts, but I still go for NF 3 to demonstrate that I have acting shipyards large enough to construct vessels with tonnage in excess of 30,000 tons (the Izmails), and to have the ability to later use carrier converts.

A lot of the pre-dreads will be used up for railway guns in the late 1920s-early 1930s. The Navy's construction plans in this reality are more amibitious. The Izmail class and the upcoming carriers, as well as a few Svetlana class light cruisers will be joined into an "Open Sea" taskforce. The Baltic is seriously shallow for that, and the Union will be searching for a base to replace the lost agreement with the French that went void after the Revolution despite Russia paying out the Tsar's debt (the French didn't like commies).

[Steve]

Finally fixed the Darter's main problem, her seaworthiness.

She's actually lighter than the Preble despite being the same dimensions and having one more 3 pounder in her secondary battery.

Darter, Cascadian Torpedo Boat Destroyer, laid down 1900

Displacement:
466 t light; 490 t standard; 543 t normal; 585 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(257.12 ft / 252.00 ft) x 23.20 ft x (6.50 / 6.88 ft)
(78.37 m / 76.81 m) x 7.07 m x (1.98 / 2.10 m)

Armament:
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.70lbs / 2.58kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
Weight of broadside 57 lbs / 26 kg
20 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 11.67 ft / 3.56 m torpedoes - 0.436 t each, 8.721 t total
In 3 sets of deck mounted reloads

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,803 ihp / 8,805 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 2,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 94 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
56 - 73

Cost:
£0.067 million / $0.268 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 21 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 12 tons, 2.2 %
- Torpedoes: 9 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 339 tons, 62.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 106 tons, 19.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 77 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
91 lbs / 41 Kg = 6.8 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 9.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.70

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 72
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 40.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m, 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
- Average freeboard: 8.70 ft / 2.65 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 207.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.6 %
Waterplane Area: 3,895 Square feet or 362 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 15 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 86 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.48
- Longitudinal: 0.75
- Overall: 0.50
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Norade]

My attempt at a destroyer based on Japanese and American designs from the 1920's to 1930's.

Classe-3, Portuguese Destroyer laid down 1923

Displacement:
2,053 t light; 2,139 t standard; 2,283 t normal; 2,399 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (11.00 / 11.40 ft)
(123.44 m / 121.92 m) x 12.19 m x (3.35 / 3.47 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 100 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 100 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 507 lbs / 230 kg
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m torpedoes - 1.522 t each, 12.180 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,842 shp / 15,548 Kw = 27.40 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 260 tons

Complement:
164 - 214

Cost:
£0.633 million / $2.534 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 144 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 132 tons, 5.8 %
- Torpedoes: 12 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 117 tons, 5.1 %
- Armament: 117 tons, 5.1 %
Machinery: 697 tons, 30.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,094 tons, 47.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 230 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,260 lbs / 1,025 Kg = 36.2 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.454 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.00 ft / 1.83 m, 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
- Average freeboard: 13.54 ft / 4.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.1 %
Waterplane Area: 10,240 Square feet or 951 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 355 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentalization is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspace is excellent

[Thanas]

My Heavy cruiser, available for Export as well.

A few facts:
- 15kt displacement
- Deck armor heavier than the QE class Super-Dreadnoughts
- As always, good gun platform, excellent seaboat
- 31 knots top speed, 21 knots cruising speed, 10000 nautical miles range
- 8x 8" as main armament
- 6" main armor belt
- Excellent survivability. This ship can hold out against about 120 8" shells.
- carries 50t for two aircraft.

Blücher Klasse, Germany Heavy Cruiser laid down 1926

Displacement:
15.184 t light; 15.779 t standard; 20.101 t normal; 23.558 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(773,45 ft / 754,59 ft) x 78,74 ft x (29,53 / 32,83 ft)
(235,75 m / 230,00 m) x 24,00 m x (9,00 / 10,01 m)

Armament:
8 - 8,00" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 258,18lbs / 117,11kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,27lbs / 14,64kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2.479 lbs / 1.125 kg
12 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m torpedoes - 1,558 t each, 18,701 t total
In 4 sets of submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,00" / 152 mm 330,00 ft / 100,58 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 67% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,00" / 203 mm 6,00" / 152 mm 6,00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 4,00" / 102 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2,00" / 51 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 101.440 shp / 75.674 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 21,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7.780 tons

Complement:
843 - 1.097

Cost:
£4,211 million / $16,846 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 585 tons, 2,9%
- Guns: 566 tons, 2,8%
- Torpedoes: 19 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 4.207 tons, 20,9%
- Belts: 1.047 tons, 5,2%
- Armament: 782 tons, 3,9%
- Armour Deck: 2.346 tons, 11,7%
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 3.247 tons, 16,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.095 tons, 35,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.917 tons, 24,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,2%
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35.205 lbs / 15.969 Kg = 137,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 14,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,401 / 0,423
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27,47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 24,77 ft / 7,55 m, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m, 20,28 ft / 6,18 m
- Average freeboard: 20,64 ft / 6,29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,7%
Waterplane Area: 36.595 Square feet or 3.400 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 624 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,27
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Siege]

Somebody help out the clueless please, would the following composition be reasonable for a fleet?

9 battleships
4 battlecruisers
14 heavy cruisers
14 monitors
39 destroyers

The Sultanate's fleet is mostly designed to keep its coasts clear, so we don't really need many fast cruisers. I'm about as far as you can get from being an expert on Interbellum naval affairs though, so I don't really know how much stuff I could cram into my alloted two-pointer fleet...

[Thanas]

I think you better get rid of the Battlecruisers and invest in more Battleships. Your navy probably has to pound invasion fleets or beachheads and Battlecruisers are not strong enough.


Leave commerce raiding to the Heavy Cruisers. Maybe a few light cruisers thrown in.

[Thanas]

Coincidentally, my monitor design, available for export to other navies (I won't build Monitors as Germany already has strong coastal fortifications):

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1950

Displacement:
8.993 t light; 9.655 t standard; 9.717 t normal; 9.767 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(396,59 ft / 393,70 ft) x 104,99 ft x (13,12 / 13,18 ft)
(120,88 m / 120,00 m) x 32,00 m x (4,00 / 4,02 m)

Armament:
2 - 16,00" / 406 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2.065,46lbs / 936,88kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1950 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
12 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 4.209 lbs / 1.909 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,00" / 152 mm 130,00 ft / 39,62 m 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 51% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20,0" / 508 mm 12,0" / 305 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 4,00" / 102 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 6,00" / 152 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5.036 shp / 3.757 Kw = 14,00 kts
Range 500nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 112 tons

Complement:
489 - 636

Cost:
£5,636 million / $22,543 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 686 tons, 7,1%
Armour: 3.450 tons, 35,5%
- Belts: 749 tons, 7,7%
- Armament: 653 tons, 6,7%
- Armour Deck: 1.988 tons, 20,5%
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0,6%
Machinery: 120 tons, 1,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.737 tons, 48,7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 724 tons, 7,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33.243 lbs / 15.079 Kg = 16,2 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 6,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,85
Metacentric height 14,5 ft / 4,4 m
Roll period: 11,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,627 / 0,628
Length to Beam Ratio: 3,75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 13,39 ft / 4,08 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 43,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,5%
Waterplane Area: 31.000 Square feet or 2.880 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 711 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,82
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Seaboat qualities were less important as the monitor does not have to do ocean crossing. Still, it is a good seaboat.

Has 200 shells per gun, excellent for prolonged combat.
2x16 inch guns.

Also available as an 18 and 21 inch version, for 2kt and 5kt more, respectively. .

[Norade]

This is a Portuguese Battleship designed for export.

Features:
-31kt displacement
-Good good cruiser with a range of 8,000nm at 12kts
-6" Maindeck armor, with 3" end caps provides excellent protection from plunging fire
-14" Main belt, and 8" upper belt designed to keep even the heaviest ships at bay
-Her heavy protection and excellent sea keeping will allow her to take thirty-two 14" shells and stay floating or nine torpedo hits
-Hear main battery of nine 15" guns are no pushovers either

Cidade classe mod 2, Portugal Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
29,620 t light; 31,178 t standard; 32,659 t normal; 33,844 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(683.18 ft / 656.17 ft) x 91.86 ft x (32.81 / 33.77 ft)
(208.23 m / 200.00 m) x 28.00 m x (10.00 / 10.29 m)

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1,617.32lbs / 733.60kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x Triple mount on centreline, aft deck centre
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 100 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.14lbs / 0.97kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
6 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,954 lbs / 7,236 kg
4 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m torpedoes - 1.510 t each, 6.042 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 464.49 ft / 141.58 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 30.62 ft / 9.33 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 6.50" / 165 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 53,545 shp / 39,945 Kw = 23.50 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,666 tons

Complement:
1,214 - 1,579

Cost:
£6.267 million / $25.066 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,509 tons, 7.7 %
- Guns: 2,503 tons, 7.7 %
- Torpedoes: 6 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 13,698 tons, 41.9 %
- Belts: 4,557 tons, 14.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,171 tons, 3.6 %
- Armament: 3,077 tons, 9.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,585 tons, 14.0 %
- Conning Tower: 308 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,872 tons, 5.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,540 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,040 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,985 lbs / 24,487 Kg = 32.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.578 / 0.582
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.13 ft / 6.44 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.1 %
Waterplane Area: 43,187 Square feet or 4,012 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 955 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.84
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[K. A. Pital]

Depends on what his battlecruisers are. If they're like the last WWI designs (Admiral, Mackensen, Izmail), they'd be ridiculously overpowered and basically fast battleships.

[Norade]

Speaking of naval composition I was going to have a fleet that goes something like this:

-6 50kt Battleships
-16 31kt Battleships
-12 15kt Cruisers
-30 2.1kt Destroyers
-20 1.5kt Submarines
-20 1kt Submarines
-111kts for Transports/Refuelers/Munitions Ships

I have no idea if this looks good or not though

[Thanas]

This is a Portuguese Battleship designed for export.

Features:
-31kt displacement
-Good good cruiser with a range of 8,000nm at 12kts
-6" Maindeck armor, with 3" end caps provides excellent protection from plunging fire
-14" Main belt, and 8" upper belt designed to keep even the heaviest ships at bay
-Her heavy protection and excellent sea keeping will allow her to take thirty-two 14" shells and stay floating or [/b]nine torpedo hits
-Hear main battery of nine 15" guns are no pushovers either

I see we have got quite a naval rivalry going on.

Well, this is my export battleship:

- 30kt displacement, allowing export nations to manufacture it themselves if necessary
- 8 16" guns
- 16" armor belt
- Good gun platform.
- excellent seaboat.
- 16" gun armor (face)
- 16 6" secondary battery (4 more than you have)
- larger AA armament
- same torpedo bulkhead
- better torpedoes
- less speed, but same cruising speed
- Same survivability as yours.

[Siege]

I think you better get rid of the Battlecruisers and invest in more Battleships. Your navy probably has to pound invasion fleets or beachheads and Battlecruisers are not strong enough.

I see your point; I've scrapped the battlecruisers, upped the number of BBs to 12, reduced the number of destroyers to 30 and introduced 10 light cruisers. Does that sound reasonable?

If they're like the last WWI designs (Admiral, Mackensen, Izmail), they'd be ridiculously overpowered and basically fast battleships.

I had that role in mind for my heavy cruisers (pocket battleships). The initial idea with the BCs was that they'd be able to get around quick, but my coastline really isn't large enough to warrant such ships.

[Norade]

Indeed, it will be interesting to see who will buy what or if we'll sell much at all. Though I think based on your example I'll shave a thousand tons from my boat so it will be easier to build.

[K. A. Pital]

Aren't pocket battleships a novel concept introduced by the Germans somewhere around 1926? I mean, anyone could be the introducer of the concept (especially as the major naval powers aren't bound by treaties or technical limitations and thus would unlikely build such ships), but having them in 1925 already kinda strains credibility. Overpowered battlecruisers more like battleships? Superfast "paper" cruisers? Sure, both concepts were well exploited in the post-1918 designs, but "pocket battleships"?

[Steve]

Though I don't anticipate it making any appearances in the actual STGOD save maybe my intro post at game start, this is what I intend to be the ship that put the Cascadian nation on the map in the world's naval circles. Well, if our experts say it actually holds water as a powerful, functional design for the year it was laid.

It was a bitch to design because I wanted something unique and potent compared to the era when it was laid, something that probably influenced designers across Europe, especially after the two ships of this class - paid for at great expense by a nation just starting to really get powerful and with, at the time, ships mostly acquired from British shipbuilders - played an instrumental role in the war with Manchuria.

Defiant, Cascadian Armoured Cruiser, laid down 1885

Displacement:
9,871 t light; 10,396 t standard; 12,520 t normal; 14,220 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(428.00 ft / 420.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (27.10 / 30.00 ft)
(130.45 m / 128.02 m) x 21.34 m x (8.26 / 9.14 m)

Armament:
4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 485.00lbs / 219.99kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1885 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 105.00lbs / 47.63kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1885 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1885 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
6 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,062 lbs / 1,389 kg
12 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m torpedoes - 0.350 t each, 4.198 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 93.00 ft / 28.35 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm - 2.70" / 69 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.79" / 20 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,371 ihp / 14,451 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,824 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
591 - 769

Cost:
£1.156 million / $4.624 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 853 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 849 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedoes: 4 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 1,833 tons, 14.6 %
- Belts: 1,299 tons, 10.4 %
- Armament: 173 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 302 tons, 2.4 %
- Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,765 tons, 30.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,421 tons, 27.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,649 tons, 21.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,666 lbs / 3,931 Kg = 18.7 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.57
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.98 ft / 4.57 m, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m, 14.82 ft / 4.52 m
- Average freeboard: 14.83 ft / 4.52 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.4 %
Waterplane Area: 20,518 Square feet or 1,906 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 628 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.04
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Note that just a couple months later, CRS Intrepid was laid as well. The two ships, in service together, would sail with the Home Fleet in 1889 to war in Australia and play the crucial role in defeating the Manchurian fleets at Bunbury/Fremantle and Yongsan.

[Siege]

Aren't pocket battleships a novel concept introduced by the Germans somewhere around 1926? I mean, anyone could be the introducer of the concept (especially as the major naval powers aren't bound by treaties or technical limitations and thus would unlikely build such ships), but having them in 1925 already kinda strains credibility.

Am I being anachronistic again? Sorry about that. Consider them just ordinary heavy cruisers -- or more precisely, the kind of ship I envision is a cruiser that sacrifices range for better armor and heavier gunnery. Or in other words, they don't need to cross the ocean, they just need to lumber down the coast and pummel any would-be invader with big cannons.

[Steve]

And to be silly again, I fixed the gunboat.

Offender, Duchy of California Coastal Gunboat laid down 1924

Displacement:
12,080 t light; 12,838 t standard; 12,973 t normal; 13,081 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(356.02 ft / 350.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (26.53 / 26.72 ft)
(108.51 m / 106.68 m) x 22.86 m x (8.09 / 8.14 m)

Armament:
4 - 18.00" / 457 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,940.86lbs / 1,333.95kg shells, 75 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Main guns limited to end-on fire
Weight of broadside 11,763 lbs / 5,336 kg
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m torpedoes - 1.372 t each, 8.232 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted reloads

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 250.00 ft / 76.20 m 10.39 ft / 3.17 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 10.39 ft / 3.17 m
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 227.50 ft / 69.34 m 24.98 ft / 7.61 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 5.00" / 127 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 5.00" / 127 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 10.00" / 254 mm Quarter deck: 6.00" / 152 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 6,973 shp / 5,202 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 244 tons

Complement:
607 - 790

Cost:
£4.794 million / $19.175 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,216 tons, 17.1 %
- Guns: 2,208 tons, 17.0 %
- Torpedoes: 8 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 5,366 tons, 41.4 %
- Belts: 2,184 tons, 16.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 421 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 489 tons, 3.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,082 tons, 16.1 %
- Conning Tower: 190 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 230 tons, 1.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,268 tons, 32.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 893 tons, 6.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,482 lbs / 6,569 Kg = 5.0 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.652 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m, 14.85 ft / 4.53 m
- Average freeboard: 14.86 ft / 4.53 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.2 %
Waterplane Area: 20,146 Square feet or 1,872 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 891 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 3.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather