SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[Steve]

You launched a bio attack when the country was getting rid of its slavery.

By renaming it to "indentured servitude". Yeah, that's so getting rid of it.

You really think we're that stupid. That's the only way to explain it.

Or maybe we *gasp* read Norse's posts!

Indentured servitude for ten years, note that ten years, not an unspecified period of time. Indeed right off the bat I specified how long the indentured would last and it is ten years. As indentured servants they cannot assume debt, and as such once those ten years are up (or once someone pays up their indenture bond) they must be freed.

Labour Mobilization Act of 2010
Nationalizes all slaves, but it also converts all state owned slaves into indentured servants. Note that the latter is new; previously state slaves were never sold, and generally emancipated after 10-20 years of service. However this bill makes them indentured servants right off the bat.

According to Astarian law indentured servants have the right of life and limb, of marriage, of property, and the right to buy their release from indenture. This of course makes their situation far better than it was before.

There it is. From the getgo he made it clear that the indentured servants were not slaves by another name, but had more rights and would be freed in ten years no matter what.

Ten years might've been a bit long of a period, but Norse was trying to reflect what was essentially an act of political chicanery, an end-run around the political power of the slave-owners. Politics is the art of the possible after all.

You either never read this stuff or you intentionally refused to actually think about it because you wanted to use bio weapons to wipe Norseman out. And that is why Q invocation is suitable for this situation.

[Steve]

It breaks SOD, and your solution is to retcon-in a science-defying act of Q?

Because the Italians before WW2 totally didn't gas cultures that they saw as subhuman and unworthy of continued existence? That's less believable than a magic reset button?

You know the solution that wouldn't break SOD? If half the participants stamped their feet and went home because things weren't developing as they like. I could totally believe that, because it fits right in with what I've been seeing for months.

Thanks for the input, we'd be lost without you.

I mean, how dare we demand that the state players in game behave rationally if they want to play and not get overthrown. I mean, we did establish early on that in this game the populations would not be automatons who followed our will. That we had to behave in rational fashion to keep the voters from kicking our butts out of office, or to keep our military/intel people from couping us out of office. So why wouldn't Shep find his own intelligence service giving his IC self a 9mm hemorrhage to stop such an irrational use of Shepistan's last ditch defense weapons?

Why are you even involved in this discussion anyway? You're not playing, this doesn't involve techno stuff like the rocket debate. Why are you involved and trying to insult us for not letting Shep do whatever the fuck he wants to for no good reason?

[Siege]

It breaks SOD, and your solution is to retcon-in a science-defying act of Q?

... in a game where we were explicitly put in the positions of world leaders by Q, with the warning that he might intervene if we fucked up? Uh, yeah?

Because the Italians before WW2 totally didn't gas cultures that they saw as subhuman and unworthy of continued existence? That's less believable than a magic reset button?

... after all the Italians dropped mustard gas on the Ethiopians because they wanted to free the Ethiopians and Haile Selassie wasn't forthcoming. Yeah, that was totally the same kind of situation. Oh wait, no it wasn't.

You know the solution that wouldn't break SOD? If half the participants stamped their feet and went home because things weren't developing as they like. I could totally believe that, because it fits right in with what I've been seeing for months.

Who the fuck are you anyway, and why should I care what you think?

[MKSheppard]

There it is. From the getgo he made it clear that the indentured servants were not slaves by another name, but had more rights and would be freed in ten years no matter what

Yeah right. They're just fucking with the slaves. Ten years is a long time, and more than enough time for a pro-slavocrat government to come in and reverse said laws.

"Oh hey, you're not slaves anymore! You're indentured servants!"

"What's that?"

"Uh, you get paid perhaps 5% more than 0%, and you might be freed in 10 years if the political climate continues!"

[Siege]

So your grand argument for genocide boils down to, "the situation of the indentured servants may worsen so I better kill them all (even though the Ben Dover treaty reaffirms the slavery ban)". Doesn't that sound just slightly preposterous to you?

[Bluewolf]

There it is. From the getgo he made it clear that the indentured servants were not slaves by another name, but had more rights and would be freed in ten years no matter what

Yeah right. They're just fucking with the slaves. Ten years is a long time, and more than enough time for a pro-slavocrat government to come in and reverse said laws.

"Oh hey, you're not slaves anymore! You're indentured servants!"

"What's that?"

"Uh, you get paid perhaps 5% more than 0%, and you might be freed in 10 years if the political climate continues!"

Who is to say that would happen? Whats stopping someone going "Well, if you reverse this expect to see us again?" Its not like people are going keep a blind eye foolishly assuming it will never happen eh?


Oh and to be honest, I doubt that too many people here know fully about weapons and what they can do. I am not saying the game should be dumbed down based on such a fact but I think you are going to get some schemes that may not be properly comprehended.

Oh and erik_t, why are you here if you are just going to bitch about a game your not even playing? As said when a god like being restarted a world and its deaths once you would think he would have the power to retcon things.

Oh and yes, we need a new mod who will balence these things or at least try.

[Lonestar]

There it is. From the getgo he made it clear that the indentured servants were not slaves by another name, but had more rights and would be freed in ten years no matter what.

Steve, in this instance Shep is right. At best the slaves would have ended up being tied down as Sharecroppers.

[erik_t]

Who the fuck are you anyway, and why should I care what you think?

What do you think this is, some kind of secret clubhouse? Do you find discussion distracting? If so, why are you on a message board?

[Bluewolf]

Seige never said that. The thing you have just come into a game thread with no history or interest in playing while dictating what breaks SOD or not.

[MKSheppard]

Whatever.

The scourge of slavery has been eradicated from Astaria, and all those who owned slaves are burning in eternal hellfire.

Win Win.

[Bluewolf]

Shepistan has redeemed itself in the eyes of the Latin Patriarch of Shepland; and is back in the grace of God.

Well that does fit well with you. Irrationality all around then. You have just redeemed yourself in the eyes of the God of Dickholes.

[erik_t]

Seige never said that. The thing you have just come into a game thread with no history or interest in playing while dictating what breaks SOD or not.

You're right, I meant to quote Steve on that one.

You've apparently never seen someone actually dictate something, if that's what you think I've done.

[Lonestar]

Shepistan has redeemed itself in the eyes of the Latin Patriarch of Shepland; and is back in the grace of God.

Well that does fit well with you. Irrationality all around then. You have just redeemed yourself in the eyes of the God of Dickholes.

He changed the quote.

[Bluewolf]

Its a phrase Erik not a freakin literal meaning.

But anyway I may as well stop now as this is going nowhere.

[Siege]

What do you think this is, some kind of secret clubhouse? Do you find discussion distracting? If so, why are you on a message board?

I ask you why I should care about your opinion, and this is what you come up with? You know, you could've just come out and say I shouldn't.

[PeZook]

Whatever.

The scourge of slavery has been eradicated from Astaria, and all those who owned slaves are burning in eternal hellfire.

Win Win.

Along with those who never owned slaves, who tried to emancipate them going against the massive political power of slave holders and the fucking slaves themselves.

Yay for mass genocide! It solves all problems!

Steve, in this instance Shep is right. At best the slaves would have ended up being tied down as Sharecroppers.

Yeah, and? If they were emancipated immediately, would their situation be much better? They'd still need money. The first generation of freed slaves would generally be poor. So what?

This is still no excuse to destroy the entire country, sacrificing hundreds of thousands of your people (with the best-case scenario) for no gain at all save a pat on the back and utter hate from the entire world.

[MKSheppard]

This is still no excuse to destroy the entire country, sacrificing hundreds of thousands of your people (with the best-case scenario) for no gain at all save a pat on the back and utter hate from the entire world.

It got rid of the sanctimonous bastards and their "Freedom or Death!" state motto; while they had millions of slaves. They had a choice. And they chose death.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, and? If they were emancipated immediately, would their situation be much better?

They would have been free, and part of Shep's demand was a monetary settlement for each slave. What if Norseman agreed to immediate emancipation, disbursed the money, but refused the overlordship of Shepistan/CSR/IRT(I note that no one is jumping up Phong and Stas's ass about their tacit approval of the endeavor.)

[Bluewolf]

Ok Nolder, as before:

Ok then I will buy the 14 Tranche' IV's and 8 MiG-31BM's then. I will be quite happy with that.

and Seige, still selling those Rafales?

Dassault Rafale M (X18)

[PeZook]

I have a sneaking suspicion Shep would've destroyed him anyway, since these terms were non-negotiable.

...and I don't quite have the energy to bitch at two people at once

[Bluewolf]

Oh and Nolder, please do not forget those PHZ2000's, 34 please.

[Siege]

and Seige, still selling those Rafales?

Dassault Rafale M (X18)

I most certainly am, and will be glad to furnish you with them. They'd set you back roughly $55 million a piece, so let's say a billion for the planes, spares, training and delivery to your nation's doorstep.

[Lonestar]

I have a sneaking suspicion Shep would've destroyed him anyway, since these terms were non-negotiable.

...and I don't quite have the energy to bitch at two people at once

You ARE up a bit late, aren't you?

[Bluewolf]

and Seige, still selling those Rafales?

Dassault Rafale M (X18)

I most certainly am, and will be glad to furnish you with them. They'd set you back roughly $55 million a piece, so let's say a billion for the planes, spares, training and delivery to your nation's doorstep.

Deal Accepted.

[Steve]

No Shep, they're not dead. I invoked Q, death toll is at 35% and your biological stockpile is now useless. If you want to resist this, we can just take a poll of the players to see who wants to let my Q intervention stand and who doesn't.

Or maybe we can just take a poll of players to see who wants Q to retcon the entire bioattack? I think a lot will agree that you've done a lot of harm to the game through your dickishness and wouldn't mind it being retconned.

And seriously, Shep's Treaty of Ustinov was the fucking July Ultimatum. It was never intended to be acceptable, just an excuse for him to attack.