SDN Wars: A Galaxy Divided: OOC

[Coyote]

This is the complete ruleset proposed so far. Let's check it out and see what we think. I changed a little bit from Thanas's original post, mostly by increasing the time it took to enhance a world from one level to the next level, and adding some time for the ships in mothballs to be re-activated.


[Hold on, corrections being made]

[Thanas]

You kinda screwed up the reconstruction costs. ATM it is way too cheap for me to reconstruct Coruscant. It should cost me at least 9.000 points, not 1.200 as you claimed.

Also, you messed up the numbers for domestic investment. They currently make no sense at all.


Shipyards are also missing from your infrastructure table, as are stations.

[Coyote]

You kinda screwed up the reconstruction costs. ATM it is way too cheap for me to reconstruct Coruscant. It should cost me at least 9.000 points, not 1.200 as you claimed.

Eh, my mistake. I was toying with ways to make things easier but you're right, it came out too easy. How's this:

The process of reconstructing a world to its prior status will require some form of investment:

- Colony: 1 trade pact -OR- 250 points of Domestic Investment per year for 2 years.
- Minor world: 2 trade pacts -OR- 500 points of Domestic Investment per year for 4 years.
- Average world: 4 trade pacts -OR- 1000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 6 years.
- Major world: 8 trade pacts -OR- 4000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 8 years.
- Homeworld 12 trade pacts -OR- 6000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 12 years.

Also, you messed up the numbers for domestic investment. They currently make no sense at all.

How so?

Shipyards are also missing from your infrastructure table, as are stations.

I knoew I forgot something. I will dig.

[Thanas]

You kinda screwed up the reconstruction costs. ATM it is way too cheap for me to reconstruct Coruscant. It should cost me at least 9.000 points, not 1.200 as you claimed.

Eh, my mistake. I was toying with ways to make things easier but you're right, it came out too easy. How's this:

The process of reconstructing a world to its prior status will require some form of investment:

- Colony: 1 trade pact -OR- 250 points of Domestic Investment per year for 2 years.
- Minor world: 2 trade pacts -OR- 500 points of Domestic Investment per year for 4 years.
- Average world: 4 trade pacts -OR- 1000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 6 years.
- Major world: 8 trade pacts -OR- 4000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 8 years.
- Homeworld 12 trade pacts -OR- 6000 points of Domestic Investment per year for 12 years.

Are you serious? 72.000 industrial points for me to fix up Coruscant?

Holy shit, I might just leave it to rot. No way am I going to spend my entire budget for 36 years on that one planet which only gives me 600 points in return. Better to wait the 96 years than me totally bankrupting myself and becoming the prey of the wolves.

Also, wars have just become unmanagable as the burden of reconstructing a planet is way more for one empire to handle. Under your model, I would have to invest 6000 points in total for an average world - which is thrice the entire budget of any nation.

Also, you messed up the numbers for domestic investment. They currently make no sense at all.

How so?

Because under your system, a player would have to invest his entire capital for two years in order to gain a measly 50 point increase.

Your calculation also misuse trade pacts:

Players may also raise a planet via a combination of trade pacts and investment. The player can compensate for up to 4 missing trade pacts by spending 500 points for each missing trade pact. However, the player cannot raise up a world without any trade pact at all and is limited to spending a grand total of 2000 point in lieu of a trade pact.
The following wait times have to be observed:

2 years of 2000 point investment for a Colony to raise to a Minor world.
4 years of 2000 point investment for a Minor world to become an Average world.
8 years of 2000 point investment for an Average world to become a Major world.

Thus, if we already use one trade pact, it would take me 1500 points in total, not 2000. Also, I have no problem with wait times, but your model is way too harsh on anyone.

What was wrong with the model I proposed? I thought it had the superior balance and was easy to understand, with everybody accepting them without problem.
With all due respect, but if these are the rules we are using, I'd rather not be economic advisor as I cannot figure out the sense of them.

[The Romulan Republic]

With all due respect, but if these are the rules we are using, I'd rather not play at all. I'd much prefer we use my simpler rules.

Simpler is usually better, in my experience. Do we really need rules for every little thing? Most players aren't that stupid, and if they are, we have mods.

At the same time, though, I'd like to just have something agreed upon. It seems lunacy to me to be still arguing over fundemental aspects of the rules while IC posts are going up. Its inviting the kind of disputes between players that could bring this grinding to a halt before it lasts two weeks.

[Coyote]

[Are you serious? 72.000 industrial points for me to fix up Coruscant?

Holy shit, I might just leave it to rot. ...
Also, wars have just become unmanagable as the burden of reconstructing a planet is way more for one empire to handle. Under your model, I would have to invest 6000 points in total for an average world - which is thrice the entire budget of any nation.
What was wrong with the model I proposed? I thought it had the superior balance and was easy to understand, with everybody accepting them without problem.
With all due respect, but if these are the rules we are using, I'd rather not be economic advisor as I cannot figure out the sense of them.

I'm trying to take everything we had so far and put it together into one overall sheet so we don't have to jump around from page to page. While doing this, I also experimented with trying to streamline some of the different ideas and put them in order in a way that someone might need them while building a faction from scratch.

Let me erase the damn thing and I'll repost it with something with your original numbers.

[Agent Sorchus]

I propose a Battle Cruiser grade at 10 pts in between Light SDs and line SDs and that we move Heavy SDs up to 25 pts to bridge the gaps in the ship list point system better.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, I was going to wait until I had my OOB finished before I put up an IC post, but that'll probably take a while especially in light of their being so many unresolved issues with rules. So do any of the mods mind if I just go ahead and put up an introductory IC post now? I just don't want to wait until I have several pages of catching up to do.

[Agent Sorchus]

DarthKommandant
One proposal that could come-up at the opening is a joint venture salvage operation. Something simple and low key to start relations out with.

However if the other invitees come the meet will probably focus on the old animosities of between the Imperialist factions and the CIS factions.

Preliminary Government Chart > when finalized I will post it in the OOB thread.
First Authority Council
Speaker: Cirrus Writhe, Interior Affairs Minister [human female Balmorran native]
Minister of the Fleet: Tähti Kaja Captain of the Line (retired) [Morganian male]
Founding Officer Elect: Gus Antipater Master Sargent (retired) [human male]
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Haig Ukaleq [Elomin Male]
Chairman of the Funding Council: Terho Abena [male Twi'lek]

I am also assuming that time has not properly started. We should make it our goal to have almost everyone started by the weekend with 'finalized' working rules. We can amend them later if we find it necessary.

[Thanas]

I have written the political/history/society part of my empire.

My oob is still being worked on, but I think I'll try and put up an IC thread.

[Coyote]

Well, I was going to wait until I had my OOB finished before I put up an IC post, but that'll probably take a while especially in light of their being so many unresolved issues with rules. So do any of the mods mind if I just go ahead and put up an introductory IC post now? I just don't want to wait until I have several pages of catching up to do.

Go for it. When starting something like this, a lot of it is just setting atmosphere for your faction, sending out diplomats, etc. It's too early to get too wrapped up in the finer details of trade and all.

If we start stringing out the "hello, nice to meet you" posts now, they'll be out of the way once everyone gets their OOBs, etc, ready to roll.

Just don't pin yourself to anything too solid as far as obligations go until you're sure you're ready, and roll into it!

[Thanas]

Okay, my first post is up. Let's see how it goes. I might edit it for style, but the information in it is final and will not be edited later on. Let's see how y'all respond to a major diplomatic offence.

[Agent Sorchus]

Preliminary Government Chart > when finalized I will post it in the OOB thread.
First Authority Council
Speaker: Cirrus Writhe, Interior Affairs Minister [human female Balmorran native]
Minister of the Fleet: Tähti Kaja Captain of the Line (retired) [Morganian male]
Founding Officer Elect: Gus Antipater Master Sargent (retired) [human male]
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Haig Ukaleq [Elomin Male]
Chairman of the Funding Council: Terho Abena [male Twi'lek]

Internal Affairs Ministry
Consists of the bureaucracy necessary to govern a Nation. The Department of Peace is made up of the enforcers and Police of the government. The House of representatives has little power, except over the Constitutional Trust (writing the formal documents of Governance) and the Court Justice Assembly (Central Court system). The Mid-Childan Governor Bast Alvorost is the acting under minister.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Diplomatic Corps, leader Arthur Signus. First Intelligence Division, Division Chief Quintillus aka 'Chrono.'

Fleet Ministry
Second Intelligencee Division, Division Chief Raelene Halstein. Commander of Armed Services: Admiral Kistna.

Founding Officers Club
The FOC was the true owner to the original mercenary company that occupied Balmorra. Since the Occupation they have lost power due to the limited ability to override other elements of the TSAB government. In effect the Club acts as a House of Lords who get to elect one of their members to the First Council for a year. Since most of the Officers in the TSAB military get the opportunity to join upon retirement the club is quite large.

Funding Council
De facto Economic Authority for both Balmorra and Foundry, makes budget proposals, imposes tariffs. Does not have full power over the Mid-Childan Economy. Balmorran Arms has an Industrial Observer seat on the Council.

So Commodore Alicia Testarossa is Liaison between Armed Services of Balmorra and Department of Peace enforcers and as such has joint service.
*******
Does this look good to everyone?

Thanas: Do you want to do this like how Coyote and Karmic are, or should I handle the introduction?

[Karmic Knight]

Does this look good to everyone?

Nothing jumps out as you trying to slip giving yourself a death star in your background fluff, so I would say it is fine.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Haven't settled my OOB, but on the verge of it. Need some time to iron out some details.

But it's a 50/50 that I am a Sith Lord, or something of the like. But I am somewhere between a corporatist, and an Empire builder.

[Mr Bean]

Question if I declare war on you Agent Sorchus will your Department of Peace declare Peace on my arse? Or is there a "Department of Opposite-Peace"?

More smart ass comments to come later

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Question if I declare war on you Agent Sorchus will your Department of Peace declare Peace on my arse? Or is there a "Department of Opposite-Peace"?

More smart ass comments to come later

Kuat Drive Yards frowns on declarations of war, though it would happily supply both sides with armament.

[Mr Bean]

Kuat Drive Yards frowns on declarations of war, though it would happily supply both sides with armament.

I have no intentions of declaring war on anyone(But RR) since I'm pretty sure I'd have to go all the way around the core to do anything to threaten Agent Sorchu, which is of course weeks of travel time.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Okay, I am compiling a one-page go-to list for the rules we've discussed so far so that we can pick them apart or accept them. I'll have it up soon.

Where is this post?

[Thanas]

Okay, I am compiling a one-page go-to list for the rules we've discussed so far so that we can pick them apart or accept them. I'll have it up soon.

Where is this post?

He is working on it.

Thanas: Do you want to do this like how Coyote and Karmic are, or should I handle the introduction?

Doesn't really matter as long as you do not have my people acting like idiots. Like my post says, The Remnant is interested in diplomatic relations and trade agreements.

[RogueIce]

Okay, I am compiling a one-page go-to list for the rules we've discussed so far so that we can pick them apart or accept them. I'll have it up soon.

Where is this post?

He's still working on it. He did have one posted, but apparently FUBARed it so he took it down.

darthkommandant
You're building a 3000m shipyard? Nobody has anything over 1000m right now, so isn't that a little ambitious? How long were you expecting this to take? Anything less than two years is going to get a NO vote from me, and even more than two years doesn't mean I'll roll with it. You're basically tripleing the size of any existing shipyard. We'll see what Shady says, since nobody objected to us being Mods.

BTW, I'll support Thanas for an Economic Mod.

Also,

Little is known about the second Corellian Empire, except that they are – well – Corellian.

I'll see about fixing that up. I am generally Imperial though. But more of a Pelleaon Empire than a Palpatine Empire.

And since others are coming to see me, I'll send missions out to you, too. I think I'll detail Kuat, the Remnant, Manticore and the Core Protectorate. If I miss anyone that's at least somewhat pro-Imperial or might be willing to work with the Empire, assume I went to you too?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I'm willing to work with anyone, though I would lean towards Imperial because of shared goals and also shared technology.

Among things on the cards I would like to look into is multi-kilometer long ships with sizable armament, but primarily troop/fighter carriers. Then I can start carting around entire divisions in one ship and not several and several Acclaimators just to do the job.

[RogueIce]

I'm willing to work with anyone, though I would lean towards Imperial because of shared goals and also shared technology.

Among things on the cards I would like to look into is multi-kilometer long ships with sizable armament, but primarily troop/fighter carriers. Then I can start carting around entire divisions in one ship and not several and several Acclaimators just to do the job.

The expert shipmakers on Corellia will be happy to work with you.

Are you going to be Sith? And if so, Secret Sith or Open Sith? That would determine relations to some extent, though if you're Secret Sith we can, how should I say...look the other way?

Also, sent out various CR-90 corvettes with diplomats and such. As I said in the post, if I missed an Imperial-ish faction and/or anyone who wanted to open up communications with me, let me know and I'll edit it in. Otherwise you're getting a probe droid so I can start building data.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The expert shipmakers on Corellia will be happy to work with you.

Are you going to be Sith? And if so, Secret Sith or Open Sith? That would determine relations to some extent, though if you're Secret Sith we can, how should I say...look the other way?

Also, sent out various CR-90 corvettes with diplomats and such. As I said in the post, if I missed an Imperial-ish faction and/or anyone who wanted to open up communications with me, let me know and I'll edit it in. Otherwise you're getting a probe droid so I can start building data.

Secret. We prefer that our Sith are our agents and not for open domination.

Jedi make poor warriors anyway, Sith or no. A well placed bomb, a high powered blast etc. It is not impossible to overwhelm a Sith either, with warriors with Cortosis armor.

Just a note. I intend to start detailing a number of shipyards for construction. Likely 2 1600m shipyards at Kuat. I may construct one 1600m at Gyndine and another at Rothana but the decision is not firm.

[Thanas]

Agent Sorchus,

a 3000m shipyard is not in the rules. Thus, you have to build a research station and then design one, though that will take at least 12 months of research.

You'd be better off building a 2200m shipyard, which takes 14 months to construct and will cost you 400 points.