SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread IV

[Simon_Jester]

If you can have missile duels in hyperspace, I'm not sure why you can't launch hyper-capable gunships while in hyperspace (you can't, at least the last time I checked with Steve). If forced to come up with something that would both work and not ring my mental alarm bells I'd try to build some kind of high-intensity version of an FTL comm beam, a "hyperwave laser" or the like...

Also not being able to launch hyper capable gunships in hyperspace makes no sense. Launching wouldn't be any harder than intercepting (since at least common interceptors need the grapnel contact to work) and uses much of the same technology.

Dunno; it wasn't my idea. Didn't make much sense to me either.

Out in the boonies rimward of the Chamarran Hierarchy, eh? Yeah, I'd also go with Simon's suggestion and try to find happiness by fighting the main Ork holdings out to spinward of your position.

I always thought Rimward was south on the map, with coreward being north.

Well, that's something I made up so I could put names to map directions, based on the idea that at roughly 50-100 light years per sector, "known space" matches up fairly well with the width of the Orion-Cygnus Arm (the higher estimate matches better). Which offers us a convenient explanation as to why there are "edges" to the map at the top and bottom; go far past that point and the star density drops off to the point where colonization becomes impractical.

But the directions I made up have coreward "up," rimward "down," spinward "right," and antispinward "left" on the map.

Hey Akhlut, did you like my depiction of the NenAltKik's contributions to Pendleton?

Yeah, I only had a slight problem with the moxli (singluar: moxi), insofar as they're not velociraptors but oviraptors. Otherwise, quite good, quite good.

D'oh.

Well, I hope you can accept a bit of poetic license for the sake of badass... I mean, come on, velociraptor commandoes are arguably better than tyrannosaurs in F-14s.

Sorry, Shroom, if I misled you. I can't remember exactly what I said...

I wonder what the Orks will think of my message?

In a word, WAAAGH!

Though maybe not. Orks in this setting are a bit more laid back. But still, I really wish Oskuro was active; as it is, orks are kind of an NPC faction

A small moxi, the commander of the local militia, cleared his throat, “We estimate 50-100 casualties when one of our armories were looted by what we believe was a mix of riot police and militia. We are also allowing in every moxli that can make it into the palace, as they are being slaughtered in the streets. So far, the rioters are staying away since we've been hitting those who venture too close with stun grenades and artificial grape* canisters. We have some APCs with tank escorts roaming the city picking up every stray moxli we can and carting them here. So far the traitor militia haven't been stupid enough to hit them with anti-vehicle weapons, but we feel that it's just a matter of time.”

...

*Note: Artificial grape flavoring, methyl anthranilate, is a potent bird repellent, provoking much the same response as capsaicin, the active ingredient in hot peppers, does in mammals. Theropod dinosaurs, being relatives of birds, would probably react to it in the same way.

DINOSAURS! Now bringing new meaning to "a whiff of grapeshot..."

[Ryan Thunder]

There are nightly chat sessions?

[Simon_Jester]

Nice, Force Lord. Of course, there are defense preparations beyond these, but that's definitely a big part of the plan...

And Ryan, it's a bit more complicated than that; I think I'd like to wait until Steve gets a chance to weigh in on this.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The CATO usergroup is still active, incidentally.

[Ryan Thunder]

Oh. I removed myself because I thought it was dead. Mind re-adding me?

[Steve]

It is why Akhlut should get on AIM and join the nightly chat sessions.

The nightly chats don't revolve around SDNW4 though, those who participate just happen to bring the STGOD up and discuss it (particularly during "slow periods", when people aren't speculating on historical or geopolitical issues). If SDNW4 players with AIM want to start an AIM chat devoted specifically to discussing the STGOD, that's what we'll use.

As for launching stuff in hyperspace, I was thinking it as a consequence of the same principles that permit in-hyperspace interceptions. That is, that trying to generate a hyperfield inside another causes the two to conflict, which either A) leads to one hyperfield being overpowered and shut down or B) cataclysmic explosions.

I suppose if people want to have such launches, though, there could be a method of "harmonizing" the smaller craft's field so that it doesn't conflict with the carrier field, at least not conflicting long enough for the craft to get clear.

[Ryan Thunder]

@Chaotic Neutral; I foresee a small problem.

[Chaotic Neutral]

The Multiverse is a big place, if you question every odd name or statistic, you just end up wasting a lot of time.
Also, it should be noted that nearby galaxies are more similar, hence why The MEH has technology that works on material other than their own. So this isn't as odd as you would think.

I'll make a note of it in the wiki later.

[Ryan Thunder]

Its just that we already have the Sun and Earth in-game.

[Akhlut]

Its just that we already have the Sun and Earth in-game.

To be fair, my species' home planet is also earth, but it is sufficiently different and was either warped into the game universe by Q, or all the human-originating planets were warped into the game universe by Q (you can guess which hypothesis the moxli and kipaktli favor).

[Chaotic Neutral]

Screw Q, The MEH can warp themselves in.

[Simon_Jester]

If that level of ability is implied to still be around, then we have one hell of a problem- balance. Anyone who can move around solar systems (even to the limited extent of making them just 'go somewhere else') is going to have corollary abilities that would break the game if they're brought into use.

There's a reason why people have been trying to segregate out the "acts of Q" that do things like rearrange the map. Nobody wants to have to deal with them as something random players can throw around.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I don't think Steve will like the idea of a race with the ability to warp entire solar systems....

[MKSheppard]

If you haven't noticed by now, I've finished a biography of Howard Hughes.

[Steve]

Screw Q, The MEH can warp themselves in.

Uh? No. Just no. If you're a warped in civilization, it was done by act of Q.

[Simon_Jester]

Screw Q, The MEH can warp themselves in.

Uh? No. Just no. If you're a warped in civilization, it was done by act of Q.

See, somehow I knew he'd say that...

CN, I don't know if you're on the same page as the rest of us when it comes to capabilities. We try to support a fairly broad range (so that gritty nuke-happy societies can coexist with Magic Zap Ray societies without one conquering the other easily), but there does have to be a certain amount of common ground or one guy will just go "well I'm the Culture so I kick your asses!" Which is no fun for anyone involved.

You might want to talk with Steve in private; he can clue you in on those ground rules so that we don't have endless annoying and pointless confrontations.

[Akhlut]

Screw Q, The MEH can warp themselves in.

Uh? No. Just no. If you're a warped in civilization, it was done by act of Q.

See, somehow I knew he'd say that...

CN, I don't know if you're on the same page as the rest of us when it comes to capabilities. We try to support a fairly broad range (so that gritty nuke-happy societies can coexist with Magic Zap Ray societies without one conquering the other easily), but there does have to be a certain amount of common ground or one guy will just go "well I'm the Culture so I kick your asses!" Which is no fun for anyone involved.

You might want to talk with Steve in private; he can clue you in on those ground rules so that we don't have endless annoying and pointless confrontations.

Or see the UN ride in on their ship Modnir and use their Unreality Rays (TM) on the offending parties.

[Simon_Jester]

Argh.

I was actually trying to avoid gratuitous threats of Modhammering. As Siege pointed out a few weeks back, it is a very serious problem when people talk lightly about Modhammer sanction for 'bad' behavior.

I think we're better off focusing on the fact that no one really wants the game to dissolve into competitive wank-fests. Attributing godlike abilities to one's own nation that the neighbors can't or don't match is just poor manners.

[Akhlut]

Argh.

I was actually trying to avoid gratuitous threats of Modhammering. As Siege pointed out a few weeks back, it is a very serious problem when people talk lightly about Modhammer sanction for 'bad' behavior.

I think we're better off focusing on the fact that no one really wants the game to dissolve into competitive wank-fests. Attributing godlike abilities to one's own nation that the neighbors can't or don't match is just poor manners.

That is why we try to police our own behavior, yes, and try not to get into endless games of one-upsmanship and, more or less, fight on even levels (Karlacks vs. FLASH STALIN, for instance). I am trusting CN to not try to go overboard on power, though, especially if his multiverse hopping abilities are either super-rare (it's very expensive to do this and since we just did it, it'll take 400 years for the engines to wind back up to do it again) or usable in only certain circumstances (ie, can't use it as an offensive weapon against enemy ships). Even with that sort of technology, I don't necessarily see CN as being able to build weapons of UNLIMITED POWAAA, just as your ability to construct a multi-kilometer, space-based particle accellerator that can be used to unmake battleships doesn't mean you have superior hyperspace technology inspite of what is probably a better understanding of particle physics than most of the rest of the galaxy. The MEH might know how to build some sort of universe-hopper but not possess the knowledge to build Destructo-beams or whatever jargon-based technology needed to kill us all. The Modnir comment was in jest, not a commissarish threat to keep to the line. Mea culpa if that wasn't clear. However, like I said, I trust CN to not go crazy and start stabbing dicks and bleeding breasts at the earliest opportunity. At least, not in a manner out of proportion to the rest of us.

[Simon_Jester]

That is why we try to police our own behavior, yes, and try not to get into endless games of one-upsmanship and, more or less, fight on even levels (Karlacks vs. FLASH STALIN, for instance). I am trusting CN to not try to go overboard on power, though, especially if his multiverse hopping abilities are either super-rare (it's very expensive to do this and since we just did it, it'll take 400 years for the engines to wind back up to do it again) or usable in only certain circumstances (ie, can't use it as an offensive weapon against enemy ships).

All right.

Even with that sort of technology, I don't necessarily see CN as being able to build weapons of UNLIMITED POWAAA, just as your ability to construct a multi-kilometer, space-based particle accellerator that can be used to unmake battleships doesn't mean you have superior hyperspace technology inspite of what is probably a better understanding of particle physics than most of the rest of the galaxy.

Point of order: knowing how to build giant particle cannons is engineering, not science. Insofar as it's science, it's highly specialized science useful for very little except building giant particle cannons. The reason we're good at it is that we have lots and lots of practice, combined with a strong tool-and-die sector that lets us make certain specialized components that are tricky to reproduce without our factory machine tools.

Which is also why we export giant particle cannons. We have the production lines already set up to make the tricky bits, saving someone else the cost of several generations' R&D to rediscover the proprietary techniques... exploding a number of test prototypes along the way, as the Centralists are doing.

This only makes us go-to guys for particle guns in the same way that the Bragulans are the go-to guys for vegemite rubiconium applications. They know more about handling it than practically anyone else just from long experience (and countless irradiated gulag workers).

Local efforts to develop modified versions of Umerian particle guns that can be maintained from domestic industry achieve varying levels of success: the Idurans' CareBearStare weapon (known to Umeria as the Mk XIII Block 50 proton gun) being one of the better success stories.

There are other areas where we flat-out don't have the tooling to reproduce pieces of high technology. Obvious examples include almost anything high-end made in Tianguo (which is literally magic). Or the top of the line Sovereignty computer hardware (which is based on legacy Apexai innovations that the Umerians still haven't figured out how to duplicate).

But I take your meaning.

The MEH might know how to build some sort of universe-hopper but not possess the knowledge to build Destructo-beams or whatever jargon-based technology needed to kill us all. The Modnir comment was in jest, not a commissarish threat to keep to the line. Mea culpa if that wasn't clear. However, like I said, I trust CN to not go crazy and start stabbing dicks and bleeding breasts at the earliest opportunity. At least, not in a manner out of proportion to the rest of us.

That's a very reasonable approach.

The reason it seems to be a point of concern is that CN is a relative unknown: new to the SDN community, new to us here personally, new to the game in particular. He's liable to run into things like this by simply not knowing the boundaries he's crossing.

I'm inclined to trust CN too, but he's going to need certain things explained to him just because he's new to the game, not because of any inherent dickishness.

[Akhlut]

Wait, so you mean to tell me the Umerians build metric assloads of particle accellerators and don't bother actually doing research with the damn things? Do you guys just like making shit explode with them? Or do you guys just do the research very slowly in order to maximize peer-reviewed articles?

If so, it reminds me of this SMBC cartoon: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1624

[Simon_Jester]

Wait, so you mean to tell me the Umerians build metric assloads of particle accellerators and don't bother actually doing research with the damn things?

The problem is mostly that there's a limit on how much swords-to-plowshares work you can do. It's difficult to do LHC-style beam colliding research with megaton-range beam weapons, because you tend to wind up blowing up the detector apparatus you set up to watch cool and interesting things happen at the collision point.

A research accelerator built using Umerian particle gun technology would look very different from the aforesaid particle guns. A lot of the innovations that are necessary for the particle gun would not be useful for the research accelerator, just as a fighting knife is liable to look different from a kitchen knife.

On the other hand, if you point the research accelerator at something you dislike, you're going to get much less in the way of kabooms.

So while the Umerian research community is quite active (hey, a Technocracy has to be good for something), it's not as far ahead as the engineering lead in particle beam weapon design over someone like the Centrality might indicate. We're way ahead of them in that one area without being correspondingly far ahead in general science and technology.

Do you guys just like making shit explode with them?

Now that you mention it...

YES.

That too.

[MKSheppard]

No response to Howard HUEG makes HUEG sad.

[Force Lord]

No response to Howard HUEG makes HUEG sad.

HUEG HUEG HUEG HUEG HUEG HUEG HUEG HUEG!

[Simon_Jester]

Well, I'm not unsympathetic; I'm just not sure I've been disinfected thoroughly enough to be allowed close to him.

But never fear; I'm sure Howard will figure prominently in days to come. He is the wave of the future!

Hmms. There will probably be fierce competition between Hueg Tool Company and Umerian concerns such as Spacely Sprockets and Cogswell Cogs...